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Brooks B17 Imperial - early wear?

Old 11-20-19, 03:22 PM
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nantman85
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Brooks B17 Imperial - early wear?

First post!

Last week I fitted a B17 Imperial to my Jamis Quest.

i proofided the top and underneath before I took it on it’s maiden journey and again the second day to ensure the bottom soaked it up.

ive done 38 miles on the saddle and this morning noticed a slight tear forming underneath the rivet on the side of the nose.

is this just the leather taking shape or is this definately not the norm? It’s my first leather saddle so I don’t know what to expect.

Any thoughts if this is normal or not? Hope it’s normal as it’s getting really comfortable!
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Old 11-20-19, 04:31 PM
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Photos are always helpful when asked about a potential flaw in something.
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Old 11-20-19, 04:37 PM
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Given that you live in the same country as Smethwick, might you be best served to contact them directly, rather than a bunch of internet strangers in North America?

but no, a rip or tear is not normal.
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Old 11-20-19, 07:02 PM
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Thanks guys I’m taking it up with the retailer I got this from. A little disheartened by the quality if I’m honest though.
Are there any similar saddles you recommend assuming I get a refund due to the failure?
cheers
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Old 11-20-19, 07:55 PM
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I own several Brooks. I returned one to the retailer before I ever used it, but I would continue to buy Brooks. I have never had a leather tear on a leather saddle.
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Old 11-20-19, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by nantman85
Thanks guys I’m taking it up with the retailer I got this from. A little disheartened by the quality if I’m honest though.
Are there any similar saddles you recommend assuming I get a refund due to the failure?
cheers
I've not had any issues with mine, but perhaps show us a photo that clearly shows the detail, as for recommendations, no point, bike seats are pretty personal, you have to muddle your way through this on your own mate.
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Old 11-20-19, 11:13 PM
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I will say that I have tried two other leather saddle makers and neither of them held up any where near as well as my multiple Brooks B67's and my one Imperial.
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Old 11-21-19, 02:57 AM
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Originally Posted by djb
I've not had any issues with mine, but perhaps show us a photo that clearly shows the detail, as for recommendations, no point, bike seats are pretty personal, you have to muddle your way through this on your own mate.
it won’t let me post a pic as I’m a new user on the forum :/
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Old 11-21-19, 07:17 AM
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Originally Posted by nantman85
it won’t let me post a pic as I’m a new user on the forum :/
Ah, right. Forgot about that.
Your retailer should be able to deal with it if it's a clear problem, so all the best with it.
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Old 11-21-19, 09:37 AM
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Thanks for your input! Wiggle have said they will take the saddle back for closer inspection so hopefully they let me swap the saddle.
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Old 11-21-19, 10:04 AM
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Given you are in Blighty, make sure you don't leave the seat out in the rain, uncovered, as riding on a soaked leather seat will stretch the heck out of it and take years off its working life. Plastic bags work, and those Brooks rain covers are great when riding in the rain.
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Old 11-21-19, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by djb
Given you are in Blighty, make sure you don't leave the seat out in the rain, uncovered, as riding on a soaked leather seat will stretch the heck out of it and take years off its working life. Plastic bags work, and those Brooks rain covers are great when riding in the rain.
Cheers...I ride with full mudguards and don’t intend to ride when it’s tipping it down with rain but that will be my next purchase just in case I get caught out.
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Old 11-21-19, 10:42 AM
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Even just having a plastic bag tied up under the seat to the rails is good to have in case caught out.
My oldest Brooks is about 8 or 9 years old, and is still in very good condition, little sag, so not letting a leather seat get soaked has real advantages.
The C series by Brooks are nice also, rubber material, my c17 is not quite as comfortable as the b17's I also ride, but pretty good.
Again, one has to personally spend time on seats to really know how they work, along if course with bike and seat positioning, specific padded bike shorts etc...ie no b+w answer here.
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Old 11-21-19, 07:00 PM
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My experience with Brooks has been super great. Still using a Pro model from 1979. Proofhide never applied. It is just starting to crack at the rivets. I have another Pro model from the early 80's that I no longer use, but has seen a lot of bad weather and Proofhide never applied. I put it on a display bike last year to take it out of service. Too far gone at the rivets now.

Often I wonder about the Imperial model's ability to handle weight. I clock in at 230 pounds and I wonder if my weight would cause problems with the cut out design. My son retired his Cambium Carved after only two years due to excessive sag. He clocks in at 235 pounds. Something to consider when choosing a saddle.
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Old 11-22-19, 04:54 AM
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Originally Posted by TiHabanero
My experience with Brooks has been super great. Still using a Pro model from 1979. Proofhide never applied. It is just starting to crack at the rivets. I have another Pro model from the early 80's that I no longer use, but has seen a lot of bad weather and Proofhide never applied. I put it on a display bike last year to take it out of service. Too far gone at the rivets now.

Often I wonder about the Imperial model's ability to handle weight. I clock in at 230 pounds and I wonder if my weight would cause problems with the cut out design. My son retired his Cambium Carved after only two years due to excessive sag. He clocks in at 235 pounds. Something to consider when choosing a saddle.
I had a C17 carved the all weather model but didn’t find it comfortable at all it was too saggy and too difficult to find that perfect sitting position.

The imperial is firmer than the C17 but does have some give but I’ve nothing to compare with on a leather saddle as it’s my first. The imperial is laced which stops it splaying at the sides due to the cut out, first impressions are that I like it.
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Old 11-22-19, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by nantman85
I had a C17 carved the all weather model but didn’t find it comfortable at all it was too saggy and too difficult to find that perfect sitting position.

The imperial is firmer than the C17 but does have some give but I’ve nothing to compare with on a leather saddle as it’s my first. The imperial is laced which stops it splaying at the sides due to the cut out, first impressions are that I like it.
Im surprised that you found the C17 too saggy, although I have never ridden a carved one. Do be aware that all of the leather carved models are going to be susceptible to sagging more than the regular models just because there is less structural leather support, so if you over proofide them, or they get wet and ridden, or you are a heavy rider, the leather will sag more than the others.
Ive seen full leather models that have much much more sag than my much older seats, Ive seen one that was maybe a year old but looked like it was 10 years old and talking with the guy (rode along side him on a ride once, a stranger) Im certain its because he always left the bike out in the rain and never covered it and rode it wet regularly, he never gave it a second thought.
I imagine rider weight is a factor also, I'm a slight person, nearly 100 pounds lighter than tihaberno, so this makes a hell of a difference of me being easier on a seat (or a wheelset or whatever) and is logical that my leather seats would stretch less.

re proofide, I put some on at first, but over the years I hardly put any on anymore. It just doesnt seem needed. I keep an eye out and put a really small amount on areas that appear if its needed, but I believe its fair to say that you do not want to put too much, although this is certainly not an exact science here. Brooks themselves say this, and although its been a while since Ive read their recommendations, they arent exact either.

bottom line with leather Brooks is that I find them to be more comfortable than other seats Ive ridden on, so I live with being careful of rain/wet, and also am aware than slight seat position changes can make all the diff for overall comfort, so make small changes at a time. Like with other seats, I still find fairly level to be the most comfortable, although that can depend on bike/bar setup. I have tried the "slight turned upwards at front" , but for my bikes, level is generally better.(although due to their shape, level is not exact, but again, experiment)
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Old 11-22-19, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by djb
Im surprised that you found the C17 too saggy, although I have never ridden a carved one. Do be aware that all of the leather carved models are going to be susceptible to sagging more than the regular models just because there is less structural leather support, so if you over proofide them, or they get wet and ridden, or you are a heavy rider, the leather will sag more than the others.
Ive seen full leather models that have much much more sag than my much older seats, Ive seen one that was maybe a year old but looked like it was 10 years old and talking with the guy (rode along side him on a ride once, a stranger) Im certain its because he always left the bike out in the rain and never covered it and rode it wet regularly, he never gave it a second thought.
I imagine rider weight is a factor also, I'm a slight person, nearly 100 pounds lighter than tihaberno, so this makes a hell of a difference of me being easier on a seat (or a wheelset or whatever) and is logical that my leather seats would stretch less.

re proofide, I put some on at first, but over the years I hardly put any on anymore. It just doesnt seem needed. I keep an eye out and put a really small amount on areas that appear if its needed, but I believe its fair to say that you do not want to put too much, although this is certainly not an exact science here. Brooks themselves say this, and although its been a while since Ive read their recommendations, they arent exact either.

bottom line with leather Brooks is that I find them to be more comfortable than other seats Ive ridden on, so I live with being careful of rain/wet, and also am aware than slight seat position changes can make all the diff for overall comfort, so make small changes at a time. Like with other seats, I still find fairly level to be the most comfortable, although that can depend on bike/bar setup. I have tried the "slight turned upwards at front" , but for my bikes, level is generally better.(although due to their shape, level is not exact, but again, experiment)
maybe saggy was the wrong word but it felt more like sitting in a sling and after a while felt grippy and became uncomfortable, with the leather it is a bit more slippery so better that way.

I am 180lbs so no feather weight but hardly a heavyweight, I put proofide on twice but the first time I put it on the proofide May have melted in the delivery guys van as it was paste like so when I put the first coat on it soaked in really easily I don’t know if that was a factor for the crack in the leather.

I found nearly level the most comfortable but as it’s new and slippy I had to tilt the nose up as I was sliding into the ridge, I expect once I get the seat bones ridges in the saddle I can level it off.

Is has not got worse but I’ve packaged up and will return tonight to the retailer.
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Old 11-22-19, 11:29 AM
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as per some of your observations, yes leather seats do tend to "evolve" a bit as they take shape to you, and gradually change shape overall. Mine have been fairly consistent over the years, so its not like its a constant thing. As you say, the "slippery" aspect of stuff also changing slightly over time, but I have always found this aspect of them to be part of the good confort thing, that there is less friction than on other seats Ive ridden.

bottom line is that when they become shaped to your shape, the comfort thing is there, and the rest of the leather should not be sagging, as you want that support.
All that said, Im sure the cut out models behave differently, but perhaps more important to at least not ride on it if it gets soaked, or simply put, dont let it get soaked ever. At first I used to think it was a big deal to keep on top of this, but it becomes second nature.

but its up to the individual to decide if a leather seat is for them. I realized fairly soon after getting my first one that whenver I would ride one of my other bikes with other seats, and would really notice the comfort difference, that I started looking for a second one for my other bike, and Ive continued along that route over time, except for the C17 as a tryout.
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Old 11-22-19, 07:31 PM
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Had a demo C17 from the shop on my touring bike and found it comfortable from the get go. On my road bike, it was horrible, but I was also placed further back on it. I think the Cambium C17 would work for me, but I am certain the C17 Carved will end up sagging in short order as it did for my son.
After all that, I put a new Sella Italia Turbo saddle on the touring bike and it is perfect. Really wanted to go B17, but had the Turbo and I know it works for me as I have had several bikes with one and tens of thousands of miles logged on those bikes with the Turbo saddle.
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Old 11-22-19, 07:45 PM
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Funnily enough, opposite for me. The c17 works for me on the faster bike, ie harder riding and standing, but find the leather b17's better for long touring, seated days.
Whatever seat works for ya huh?
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