weird question, are some tubes faster than others?
#1
Full Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Portland
Posts: 357
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 161 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 267 Times
in
98 Posts
weird question, are some tubes faster than others?
My mind says no, but my legs tell me something different. I had 26x1.5 tubes in my 650bx42mm tires and then went to 27.5x1.75 tubes. At the same PSI, the larger tubes felt comfier but slightly slower. I'm not trying to overthink things or nitpick every little detail, mainly just curious.
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Layton, UT
Posts: 1,606
Bikes: 2011 Bent TW Elegance 2014 Carbon Strada Velomobile
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 626 Post(s)
Liked 701 Times
in
418 Posts
There are many claims (especially latex vs. butyl tubes). There may be research out there that can verify some of the claims, but I go for inexpensive, since I'm not a speed demon.
#3
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: TC, MN
Posts: 39,520
Bikes: R3 Disc, Haanjo
Mentioned: 354 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20810 Post(s)
Liked 9,456 Times
in
4,672 Posts
Yes, some tubes are faster than others. Latex and Schwalbe's schmancy new tubes are ver fast.
#4
I'm good to go!
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 15,009
Bikes: Tarmac Disc Comp Di2 - 2020
Mentioned: 51 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6202 Post(s)
Liked 4,816 Times
in
3,323 Posts
Anecdotal, but anecdotal counts if you can get some data recorded and repeatable results.
For one, your tubes are probably a different weight. More mass equals more energy to accelerate. Also there will be some change in rolling resistance depending on how stretched the tube is inside the tire. Or perhaps if the larger tube winds up being wadded up and you just didn't notice the bumpy ride.
Different brand tubes might have been different compounds. Butyl rubber is not simply one exact recipe.... I think. Slight changes to the ingredients and how they are processed to make the butyl rubber or any tube material will make a difference for the rolling resistance. As well, Latex vs Butyl vs ?? It's all going to roll different.
But if you didn't control everything else like PSI, same tire at the same wear level, road surface and even your own increasing or decreasing fitness, then well you know, could be an infinite number of reasons for your perceptions.
For one, your tubes are probably a different weight. More mass equals more energy to accelerate. Also there will be some change in rolling resistance depending on how stretched the tube is inside the tire. Or perhaps if the larger tube winds up being wadded up and you just didn't notice the bumpy ride.
Different brand tubes might have been different compounds. Butyl rubber is not simply one exact recipe.... I think. Slight changes to the ingredients and how they are processed to make the butyl rubber or any tube material will make a difference for the rolling resistance. As well, Latex vs Butyl vs ?? It's all going to roll different.
But if you didn't control everything else like PSI, same tire at the same wear level, road surface and even your own increasing or decreasing fitness, then well you know, could be an infinite number of reasons for your perceptions.
Last edited by Iride01; 03-16-21 at 09:41 AM.
#5
Cheerfully low end
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 1,978
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 646 Post(s)
Liked 1,044 Times
in
667 Posts
There are comparisons of same tire and rim running tubeless versus, latex, thin butyl and standard butyl tubes. IIRC, tubeless is best, with latex usually adding a bit over 1W, thin butyl maybe 3W and standard butyl more like 5W. It will vary with tire type and wheel size.
So, yeah, it’s there and measurable. However, latex tubes lose air faster and both latex and thin butyl tubes are more vulnerable to puncture. So, standard butyl tubes still have a place when convenience and reliability are a factor. OTOH, tubeless is fastest, assuming you have things sorted and working,
Otto
So, yeah, it’s there and measurable. However, latex tubes lose air faster and both latex and thin butyl tubes are more vulnerable to puncture. So, standard butyl tubes still have a place when convenience and reliability are a factor. OTOH, tubeless is fastest, assuming you have things sorted and working,
Otto
#6
-------
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Tejas
Posts: 12,797
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9656 Post(s)
Liked 6,366 Times
in
3,506 Posts
There are comparisons of same tire and rim running tubeless versus, latex, thin butyl and standard butyl tubes. IIRC, tubeless is best, with latex usually adding a bit over 1W, thin butyl maybe 3W and standard butyl more like 5W. It will vary with tire type and wheel size.
So, yeah, it’s there and measurable. However, latex tubes lose air faster and both latex and thin butyl tubes are more vulnerable to puncture. So, standard butyl tubes still have a place when convenience and reliability are a factor. OTOH, tubeless is fastest, assuming you have things sorted and working,
Otto
So, yeah, it’s there and measurable. However, latex tubes lose air faster and both latex and thin butyl tubes are more vulnerable to puncture. So, standard butyl tubes still have a place when convenience and reliability are a factor. OTOH, tubeless is fastest, assuming you have things sorted and working,
Otto
Likes For Mojo31:
#7
I'm good to go!
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 15,009
Bikes: Tarmac Disc Comp Di2 - 2020
Mentioned: 51 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6202 Post(s)
Liked 4,816 Times
in
3,323 Posts
Though only ride road bikes, I have to wonder if the 1 or 2 watts difference that tubeless versions of the same tire provide is material for me. For others that ride really far, long and often, maybe.
From what I've read, tubeless became a hit with the off-road crowd for puncture resistance. No so much for rolling resistance.
Last edited by Iride01; 03-16-21 at 10:45 AM.
#8
Sunshine
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 16,619
Bikes: '18 class built steel roadbike, '19 Fairlight Secan, '88 Schwinn Premis , Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross V4, '89 Novara Trionfo
Mentioned: 123 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10971 Post(s)
Liked 7,499 Times
in
4,194 Posts
Why use a 26" tube in a 650b wheel? I guess in an emergency?
Ill pile on and confirm that tubes vary and will affect power/speed.
Ill pile on and confirm that tubes vary and will affect power/speed.
#10
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: TC, MN
Posts: 39,520
Bikes: R3 Disc, Haanjo
Mentioned: 354 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20810 Post(s)
Liked 9,456 Times
in
4,672 Posts
Likes For WhyFi:
#11
Grupetto Bob
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Seattle-ish
Posts: 6,232
Bikes: Bikey McBike Face
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2592 Post(s)
Liked 5,663 Times
in
2,929 Posts
The less the rotating mass, the faster you will go. It makes sense to get the smallest, lightest tubes. This is true for all vehicles which use tires.
__________________
Road 🚴🏾♂️ & Mountain 🚵🏾♂️
Road 🚴🏾♂️ & Mountain 🚵🏾♂️
#12
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,767
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1110 Post(s)
Liked 1,204 Times
in
761 Posts
But maybe the type of riding the article was talking about needs to be considered. Didn't see any road bikes in the pic's.
Though only ride road bikes, I have to wonder if the 1 or 2 watts difference that tubeless versions of the same tire provide is material for me. For others that ride really far, long and often, maybe.
From what I've read, tubeless became a hit with the off-road crowd for puncture resistance. No so much for rolling resistance.
Though only ride road bikes, I have to wonder if the 1 or 2 watts difference that tubeless versions of the same tire provide is material for me. For others that ride really far, long and often, maybe.
From what I've read, tubeless became a hit with the off-road crowd for puncture resistance. No so much for rolling resistance.
I wonder if the wattage difference makes any difference except in competition where success is measured in seconds per km (or 1.61 seconds per mi) or even seconds per 100 mile+ race. I don't think that even long distance recreational riders would notice the difference unless they're competing.
If any tube or tire contributes to comfort or convenience, that's a selling point to me. Haven't seen documentation of enough of a difference for the type of recreational road riding I do, yet.
Likes For Atlas Shrugged:
#14
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 12,910
Bikes: (2) ti TiCycles, 2007 w/ triple and 2011 fixed, 1979 Peter Mooney, ~1983 Trek 420 now fixed and ~1973 Raleigh Carlton Competition gravel grinder
Mentioned: 129 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4806 Post(s)
Liked 3,933 Times
in
2,558 Posts
A trick that is as old as I am to getting lighter and better rolling wheels is to use undersized tubes. Same model tube but one width narrower - that much lighter plus the highly stretched tube is effectively thinner and more supple. It is easy to feel the difference. Drawbacks - the thinner tube doesn't hold air as well, may be less reliable and may have issues after patching. Plus (besides fast) - easier to mount tire.
Last edited by 79pmooney; 03-16-21 at 10:48 PM. Reason: typo
#15
Veteran, Pacifist
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Seattle area
Posts: 13,338
Bikes: Bikes??? Thought this was social media?!?
Mentioned: 284 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3901 Post(s)
Liked 4,847 Times
in
2,235 Posts
The SLX tubes on my DeRosa seem fastest. But totally subjective and without data or links to a study.
22mm tubulars also always seem faster on good pavement.
New chain needed with Spring maintenance
22mm tubulars also always seem faster on good pavement.
New chain needed with Spring maintenance
__________________
Vintage, modern, e-road. It is a big cycling universe.
Vintage, modern, e-road. It is a big cycling universe.
Last edited by Wildwood; 03-16-21 at 10:53 PM.
#16
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,767
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1110 Post(s)
Liked 1,204 Times
in
761 Posts
As for the chain: less rotating mass and less wind resistance - leave it as-is.
Likes For Camilo:
#17
Disco Infiltrator
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Folsom CA
Posts: 13,446
Bikes: Stormchaser, Paramount, Tilt, Samba tandem
Mentioned: 72 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3126 Post(s)
Liked 2,105 Times
in
1,369 Posts
The tubes on most of these guys’ bikes are way faster than mine.
__________________
Genesis 49:16-17
Genesis 49:16-17
#18
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Eastern VA
Posts: 1,727
Bikes: 2022 Fuel EX 8, 2021 Domane SL6, Black Beta (Nashbar frame), 2004 Trek 1000C for the trainer
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 272 Post(s)
Liked 448 Times
in
267 Posts
#19
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Lebanon (Liberty Hill), CT
Posts: 8,473
Bikes: CAAD 12, MASI Gran Criterium S, Colnago World Cup CX & Guru steel
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1743 Post(s)
Liked 1,281 Times
in
740 Posts
#20
Senior Member
When people test the same tire, Vittoria latex and tubeless tend to perform pretty similarly, with the outcome depending on how generous the sealant fill is. A dry tubeless tire probably slightly beats latex, although this is obviously not an attractive setup. Michelin latex tubes tend to test slower than Vittoria.
Last edited by HTupolev; 03-17-21 at 08:53 AM.
#21
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Lebanon (Liberty Hill), CT
Posts: 8,473
Bikes: CAAD 12, MASI Gran Criterium S, Colnago World Cup CX & Guru steel
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1743 Post(s)
Liked 1,281 Times
in
740 Posts
Their methods are nonsense. The tubed clincher they used is a less performance-oriented tire than the tubeless tire.
When people test the same tire, Vittoria latex and tubeless tend to perform pretty similarly, with the outcome depending on how generous the sealant fill is. A dry tubeless tire probably slightly beats latex, although this is obviously not an attractive setup. Michelin latex tubes tend to test slower than Vittoria.
When people test the same tire, Vittoria latex and tubeless tend to perform pretty similarly, with the outcome depending on how generous the sealant fill is. A dry tubeless tire probably slightly beats latex, although this is obviously not an attractive setup. Michelin latex tubes tend to test slower than Vittoria.
#22
Tortoise Wins by a Hare!
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Looney Tunes, IL
Posts: 7,398
Bikes: Wabi Special FG, Raleigh Roper, Nashbar AL-1, Miyata One Hundred, '70 Schwinn Lemonator and More!!
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1549 Post(s)
Liked 942 Times
in
504 Posts
The Placebo Effect with these types of "tests" are strong. I wonder what the results would be if one didn't know what tubes were in the tires. Tublito's are definitely the fastest.
#23
Senior Member
Aerocoach has some good articles on the issue.
This one explains the issue of tubeless sealant, and in the "TIRE AND SEALANT" tab it says that in their testing, ~30ml of sealant was pretty similar in performance to a latex tube.
This article compares different inner tubes.
Here's some accumulated test results.
This one explains the issue of tubeless sealant, and in the "TIRE AND SEALANT" tab it says that in their testing, ~30ml of sealant was pretty similar in performance to a latex tube.
This article compares different inner tubes.
Here's some accumulated test results.
Likes For HTupolev:
#24
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Lebanon (Liberty Hill), CT
Posts: 8,473
Bikes: CAAD 12, MASI Gran Criterium S, Colnago World Cup CX & Guru steel
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1743 Post(s)
Liked 1,281 Times
in
740 Posts
Aerocoach has some good articles on the issue.
This one explains the issue of tubeless sealant, and in the "TIRE AND SEALANT" tab it says that in their testing, ~30ml of sealant was pretty similar in performance to a latex tube.
This article compares different inner tubes.
Here's some accumulated test results.
This one explains the issue of tubeless sealant, and in the "TIRE AND SEALANT" tab it says that in their testing, ~30ml of sealant was pretty similar in performance to a latex tube.
This article compares different inner tubes.
Here's some accumulated test results.