JoeyBike

Lawmakers want to use their phones in their moving vehicles. Unlikely they will legislate against themselves.

I-Like-To-Bike

Their constituents also want to use them, and neither group is probably all that interested in the hysterical whining from perpetually aggrieved anti-motorist crybabies.

dynodonn 

One of my (not immediate) family members can be added to the list, when the family member was killed last week while walking along side the road, heading into a neighboring town. The motorist had drifted onto the shoulder and struck the family member, and according to the autopsy, killing the family member instantly, so there was no apparent suffering on their part.

The motorist fled the scene, but was arrested an hour and a half later at 9AM, and still had a BAC of .15%, along with cocaine, marijuana, and prescription meds in their system. The motorist is a mother of a 2yo, and is still in jail without bail.

livedarklions

Crybabies as in "waaaahhh! you ran over my mother"?

Seriously, do you even think about where you insert your cliches?

bakerjw

Not trying to stir things up but European drivers, Germans primarily as I work with many and have learned how their mindset works, take driving very seriously. In Germany, you don't just turn 16, take a drivers-ed class and get a license. It is a very strict process to get licensed to drive and they take that responsibility very seriously. If you compare that mentality to how you observe Americans driving you will see a night and day difference.

Leisesturm

On another forum I was given an insight into this. An expatriate American has learned that Germans are very intolerant of things like DWI. My wife and I hosted a dinner party and were shocked when a couple of our friends drove their spouses home having enjoyed our wine during dinner. In Germany apparently, that would get around and the drunk drivers would be shunned. Even confessing something like DWI could get you dropped from your circle of friends over there.

Leisesturm

Just saying, those killer tornadoes that tore Dayton, OH two new ones. They're coming for IA. In your lifetime you might be a climate refugee or maybe worse. I know, this wasn't predicted for at least 50 years. Us boomers would be safely dead. Let the Millenials fix things. Why? It isn't their fault, its because of our refusal to migrate internal combustion technology to something less polluting. So ... anti-motorist? Guilty as charged! If you and the other 'drive it till it drops' went quietly when your lives were destroyed by your own actions I would have no comment but you will be crying to FEMA, crying to Trump's hand picked successor, crying to anyone you think will help you when it all turns to caca. Heeeeelp!!! Y'alls won't be so smarmy and condescending then. SMH.

Leisesturm

It is the rare thread in A&S that does not make clear, in whole or in part, that the driver of a car involved in an accident was on their phone and/or texting. This cannot be true. Long before texting became a thing drivers were taking out cyclists, pedestrians and their fellow motorists. When and if the technology to successfully restrict cellphone use in cars is perfected the deaths will continue apace unless steps are taken to disincentive distracted driving. There is a patent refusal on the part of the good people populating this forum to acknowledge that America has allowed its criminal justice system to devolve to what amounts to Medieval Torture and is therefore completely unsuited for the purpose of restitution or punishment for Civil Infractions. As for revenue ... since the enforcers have demonstrated an unwillingness to fairly collect fines and concentrate the bulk of their collection efforts on the poor and indigent then such measures are weak revenue generators. My five year old mid-level GPS will not accept new programming if I am creeping along in stop and go traffic. Cellphones could easily be made likewise. A passenger could override the block. And if a driver did the same thing? Fine, but can we agree that IF a driver possessing a cellphone with the motion block deactivated were involved in a fatal accident ... can we agree that this should be a criminal offense? Can we agree that this should receive a jail sentence? If we can't agree on this then just maybe that is why we have a problem with quality of life metrics surrounding motor vehicle culture.

I-Like-To-Bike

Just saying that your misguided as well as OT political ranting is barking up the wrong tree. The post you reference was a response to posters who whine incessantly about mean old texting motorists and their alleged constant threat to bicyclists due to wicked use of cell phones.

Homebrew01

Hands-free cell phone usage is allowed in CT, but holding a "device" is illegal.
Is that not common in other states ?

I-Like-To-Bike

Of course it isn't true, but the driver of a car involved in an accident was on their phone and/or texting has become a cliched BF Meme due to IMO hysterical whining from several posters who sound as if they were perpetually aggrieved anti-motorist crybabies.

livedarklions

When I drive, I cross the NH/MA border frequently. NH is hands-free with a big fine, MA has no restriction on holding a phone while driving. Rather than figuring out which side of the border I'm on at any given time, I just go hands-free all the time.

livedarklions

Are you actually claiming that texting drivers aren't a threat? Seriously? You're pro-drive/texting?

You can quibble about whether it happens as often as people claim, but that's no reason not to punish the people who do it heavily--it's an extraordinarily irresponsible and dangerous thing to do. There really aren't that many serial killers, either.

I-Like-To-Bike

You are not "quibbling" when you gratuitously initiate a false narrative about being "pro-drive/texting" from my posts that the actual threat to bicyclists from motorists texting while they are moving in traffic is grossly overstated by BF posters.

It is fine with me if some posters choose to alter their bicycling frequency or even quit altogether because they have the perception that cyclists are being struck willy-nilly by texting drivers.

It is not alright with me to make false, misleading or hyperbolic statements about the magnitude of this specific threat to cyclists in the absence of credible reports of a significant number of such incidents actually occurring. BF poster speculation that a "cell phone must have been involved" or "The Police should check driver cell phone records" every time there is a bicycle-motor vehicle collision is not confirmation of a serious problem.

livedarklions

If you want evidence, knock yourself out: https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api...ication/812700

I really don't care if bicyclists are or are not "specifically" threatened , everyone on the road is endangered by this behavior.

You don't like some of the hyperbole on bf, and I tend to agree with you. But you're equally hyperbolic when you pretend it isn't an obvious pervasive problem, and that people are " whining" when they suggest things need to be done to counter it.


I don't like the cell phone usage by drivers I've actually seen, either as a pedestrian, driver or cyclist.

McBTC

Lifetime consequences...


https://www.aaa.com/dontdrivedistrac...333&jid=354191

Leisesturm

What, you couldn't find an article about a BICYCLIST that was hit by a distracted driver? The AAA is not an advocacy group for bicyclists. It is telling that when the data is parsed, it is other motorists and motorcyclists that really stand out as the main victims of distracted drivers. As a cyclist if you are doing it right you are out of the fray for the most part. I don't worry about what that driver might be doing behind window tinting. The presence of a cell-phone does NOT indicate danger. I chuckle at those who get all riled at those who can drive competently while multi-tasking and completely giving a pass to someone totally unfit for the rigors of the road who commits a fatal blunder while totally focused on the task of driving but without a shred of judgement or skill. THAT is the driver you need to fear. When s/he comes at you you need to know what to do and do it instantly. If you answered: "get on my Airzound and drain the tank" that was the wrong answer. Distracted driving IS a problem but it is not OUR problem! America is first and foremost a driving culture. Issues and problems relating to driving get lots of press. Don't take it on. Use common sense and do not second guess the Vehicle Code of your jurisdiction. Do not creatively re-interpret guidelines for safe operation of your bicycle in vehicle traffic. Always remember that on a bicycle you do not have the same protections as when you are driving a car. Your reactions to the DAILY lapses and aggressions of the cars around you MUST be reacted to differently when you are on your bicycle if you do not want to become a statistic.

Rollfast

AS usual, the snark is turned up to 11 and Jerry Springer retired.

It's too bad, the cat fights were epic.

livedarklions

Load of crap. You must ride in a very special place or do almost no riding at all if you think we are "out of the fray".

This shows that 70 cyclists were killed by distracted drivers in 2016: https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api...ication/812517

Given that fatalities occur in a small percentage of crashes, it is safe to assume that the numbers of bicyclists thus injured is much higher.

If the vehicle code requires me to do something I consider unreasonably dangerous, I am going to ignore it. Example: I will "shoal" rather than stick in the blind spot at an intersection regardless of the local law.

BTW, no one is very good at multi-tasking. There's lots of laboratory data that show that virtually everyone thinks they're good at it, and no one is. Efficiency at one of the tasks always suffers.

Oh, and often the issue is where the vehicle code actually favors cyclist safety, it violates drivers' "common sense". I've had plenty of drivers yell at me to do something illegal or unsafe because they thought it was "the law"--example: telling me to go to the right of a right turn lane.

McBTC

It's not the phone that's a danger. The above article says, distracted driving is a, national epidemic.

"Texting is particularly dangerous because sending or reading a text takes an average of five seconds—and at 55 mph, that means a driver is traveling the length of a football field with his or her eyes off the road."

It couldn't be easier to understand. When behind the wheel, if you're texting, you are not driving. Anything that happens as a result of allowing yourself to be distracted is not an accident, it's a consequence of your negligent act of purposefully ignoring a duty to be aware and attentive to the safety of others.

Texting while driving is like lowering the window and shooting a bullet into the air. Creating a risk of harm that would otherwise be totally preventable if you did your job is like throwing dice— sooner or later, you expect snake eyes.

Leisesturm

I GET IT. Criminy, do you think I think texting and driving is a good thing?! Of course not. It, however, has become an obsession with cyclists. Somewhere around 50% of cyclists are completely or partly complicit in their accidents but from looking at A&S one could be forgiven for thinking that cyclists are infallible and 100% of the problem on todays roads is distracted drivers. The question I have for you is "what are you going to do about distracted drivers?" Seriously, what? The way I see it, a cyclist has two choices. Ride, despite the risk of encountering a possibly distracted driver or take the bus. If you choose to ride (my personal choice) then staying safe is obviously upon yourself, since all the drivers around you are distracted morons. The fact that the great majority of cyclists ride safely day after day shows that it isn't that hard to do.

Notso_fastLane

I think you might be missing a bit of the larger point.



When cyclists are irresponsible, who gets hurt? Not the drivers.



When drivers are irresponsible, who gets hurt? Again, not the drivers.



There is a much greater responsibility on drivers to be safe because they are much more likely to maim/kill others, rather than just hurting themselves. It’s called social responsibility, and distracted driving is an issue simply because they are much more dangerous.



Comparably, an airline pilot has an even greater responsibility for more people and a greater danger even to people not on the aircraft. The penalties, and rules are correspondingly stricter and harsher.



So there’s more to it than just who bears the responsibility. If we could all ride on bike only trails that were completely separated/protected from larger vehicles, we would be having a different discussion.

Leisesturm

I hate it when people quote me out of context to make a point. Even if 20x the number of dead are injured, that is still a low number relatively speaking. And we have no idea how many of those cyclists failed to ride defensively and yield when the obviously distracted driver abrogated their right of way. As a driver have you NEVER done something stupid in traffic? Was it fatal? Did it result in an accident? Possibly, but unlikely. Chances are good an accommodation was made for your momentary lapse of reason ... or judgement. Distracted driving is a terrible problem and there are a lot of ways to be distracted WITHOUT using a cellphone. I'm way older than you. Most of the drivers in my age cohort are not huge cellphone users, even fewer text, none while driving. And drivers in my age cohort are probably, by numbers, the majority of drivers on the roads. Maybe this is why I don't fully embrace the 'every driver is on their phone texting' group think. A friend of mine totaled three cars (including her own) bending down to retrieve a CD she dropped while changing it.

The great majority of distracted drivers will be a danger to other motorists and possibly pedestrians MUCH more than they should be a danger to cyclists. I believe that and I stand by it. Mainly because I am way older than you and I have been riding, mostly in traffic, since the late 1960's. I've seen it all. If you ride FRAP you can avoid a lot of the rear end collisions that result from driver distraction. A bicycle should never be as close to the centerline of any road to be taken out by a car drifting over from their side of it! It is saying a lot that in 2016 'only' 70 cyclists deaths were classified as being due to distracted drivers because the total number of cyclists killed in car/bicycle collisions in 2016 had to be in excess of 800! I'm sorry. You are not convincing me here.

livedarklions

You just posted something that said cell phones aren't a danger and talks about people's ability to "multitask competently" while driving. If there is a false impression that you were defending texting and driving, that's entirely your fault.

Obviously, the cyclist needs to factor into his/her strategies that a driver may be distracted, and do their best not to suddenly cross cars' lines of travel, and there isn't anything effective a cyclist can do to protect against any completely unpredictable erratic behavior from drivers. The fact is that a certain percentage of accidents are the cyclist's fault is also true. That does not mean, however, that we should not be active in making sure that the penalties for distracted driving are made proportional to the level of risk such drivers are putting people at. Like I said above, I consider distracted driving a threat as a pedestrian, driver and cyclist.

Your's is a really good example of a type of post on A&S--post something ridiculously over-the-top, and then when called on it, claim that you're responding to some other "typical" over-the-top posting by someone else. I guess it's a "two wrongs make a right" school of rhetoric.

livedarklions

Pretty sure we're the same age or I'm a little older. You blew a lot of credibility right there by assuming.

FRAP would get me killed in a lot of contexts, and has huge exceptions in the law in the two states I ride. Both states allow taking the lane under certain circumstances, and I find that as long as I'm signalling it, it's a far safer strategy than FRAP quite frequently. If I followed your advice, I'd never be able to safely take a left-hand turn for example.

I just saw a very young driver swing a left turn on a red light this morning while illegally talking on her cell phone this morning, so excuse me if I don't bother with your incoherent nonsense about cohorts.

You're flailing all over the place, frankly, I don't think even you know what you're arguing about any more.

Have a good weekend.