Picture of Your Favorite Vintage Time Trial Bicycles and Why!
#201
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Nice
The front forks are wrong. It needs a 24 inch front wheel.
Ah hah!. Upon closer examination I see the front forks aren't original.
How do I know? Coz I have a proper one with a junior 24 inch , 100 mm spaced front fork.
Last edited by Johno59; 11-26-19 at 01:32 PM.
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#203
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wheelchair
All wheelchairs wheels are 24 inch Junior. You can get clincher or tubular, high or low spec. No problem. 100mm axle hubs more difficult but Brampton folding bicycles are all 100 mm hubs. They range from cheapo to titanium IED-proof but eye-wateringly expensive.
Last edited by Johno59; 11-26-19 at 02:16 PM.
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#204
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In the subject photo, lowering the bars farther would be detrimental. You don't want to straighten the arms. You want the forearms parallel to the ground, to minimize frontal area. Lowering the bars probably wouldn't fix the hunched back. In the early days of funny bikes, the vast majority of cyclists didn't have have the lower back flexibility to achieve a flat back. Only after this style of bicycles had been around for a while did cyclists start working on their back flexibility to further improve body position and aerodynamics.
Very few of the people who currently own a plongeant bicicleta understand how to set it up as originally intended, judging from the photos.
Correctly done, the rider's position should be nearly identical to that on a conventional racing bike, with the bullhorns positioning the hands where they would be in the hooks of the conventional bike's drop bars or slightly below that level.
Also, depending on the steepness of the top tube slope, no more than 3 inches of the seat post, if that much, should be visible if the bike is the correct fit.
Finally, look at photos of the funny bikes ridden by the pros in the '80s. You'll never see one where the saddle isn't level.
This thread is absolutely one of the best ever started on BikeForums, and we should be grateful to VintageTTFan. It's just a shame that so many of the setups in the photos are just wrong.
I think many of us here would agree that a 1980's-era pro-level racing bike, conventional or plongeant, set up correctly, is aesthetic perfection, never to be surpassed. But funny bikes with wacky setups grate on the senses of those who know how they were meant to be set up.
For me, the effect is the same as that triggered by the sight of a racing bike with the bars rotated up and back, DUI rider style.
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#205
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One sided
This angle of the lotus bike shows the single bladed steerer and the one side only seatstay and chainstay..
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As I understand it the advantage Lemond's aero bars, and all those since, is your arm and back muscles. rest on a vertical humerus bone. A good analogy is stand straight legged for an hour and then stand squatting . Very soon you will feel the burn. I doubt you will last 15 minutes and you will ache like hell.
Staight arms on bullhorns recognise the gain of straight bones as opposed to our featured rider's exertions.
BITD bullhorn rider's had flat backs but they couldn't compete with the amount of latic acid not produced by Scotts revolutionary clip ons.
In the the famous 1989 TT in Paris, Fignon was more than 50 secs up in the last competitive stage. Lemond was given no chance . He stormed home in record time and won by 8 seconds - the French still haven't gotten over it.😵😵😵😵😵
Staight arms on bullhorns recognise the gain of straight bones as opposed to our featured rider's exertions.
BITD bullhorn rider's had flat backs but they couldn't compete with the amount of latic acid not produced by Scotts revolutionary clip ons.
In the the famous 1989 TT in Paris, Fignon was more than 50 secs up in the last competitive stage. Lemond was given no chance . He stormed home in record time and won by 8 seconds - the French still haven't gotten over it.😵😵😵😵😵
Aero bars have a similar issue. They reduce power output due to compression of the chest cavity which reduces oxygen intake. However, they're still faster because of aerodymanics. The energy savings from the supported forearms is a secondary benefit.
Aero bars are just about unrideable on rough roads due to shock transmission, especially when paired with stiffer aero wheels and forks. This, in conjunction with the decreased steering control increases the crash probability.
While the aero bars were a factor in Fignon's loss,he could still have one without them, were it not for his saddle sore or the the decision not to use his aero helmet. The relevant point is that UCI permitted a non-level playing field by allowing Lemond to compete with the clip-on aero bars. Technically, they were illegal under the rules that were in effect at the time.
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Here's my candidate for the 1st of the modern TT/Pursuit bicycles. It's a 1976 Assos. Notable features include what is considered the 1st bullhorn handlebar (though one could argue that they date back to the 19th century, just like disc wheels). The fork is straight bladed. The wheels are 24 spoke, radially laced. The frame has aerodynamically shaped tubes including a faired head tube, all in carbon fibre. Daniel Gisiger rode it at the 1978 World Championships in what is claimed to be the 1st cycling skinsuit.
Last edited by T-Mar; 11-28-19 at 05:59 PM.
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#209
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Back to track bikes
Happy Thanks Giving !
Last edited by Homebrew01; 11-28-19 at 09:49 PM.
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Sorry VintageTTfan , the Thai chick is looking a little butch , seriously she could prolly kick my ass . And that CF bike , it hurts my eyes not to mention the shot was taken at a drome . And I know for sure the Velominati would not approve of where she parked her safety glasses . https://www.velominati.com/ .
Last edited by markwesti; 11-28-19 at 08:53 PM.
#212
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Broadman's Superman position
You should never ride with straight arms. It decreases the amount of control and shock absorption. It's true that it consumes energy to maintain an optimal aero position with bullhorns but it's more than offset by the increased aerodynamics, resulting in a net gain in speed. A trained athlete can ride bullhorns in this position for over an hour, which easily covers most TTs.
Aero bars have a similar issue. They reduce power output due to compression of the chest cavity which reduces oxygen intake. However, they're still faster because of aerodymanics. The energy savings from the supported forearms is a secondary benefit.
Aero bars are just about unrideable on rough roads due to shock transmission, especially when paired with stiffer aero wheels and forks. This, in conjunction with the decreased steering control increases the crash probability.
While the aero bars were a factor in Fignon's loss,he could still have one without them, were it not for his saddle sore or the the decision not to use his aero helmet. The relevant point is that UCI permitted a non-level playing field by allowing Lemond to compete with the clip-on aero bars. Technically, they were illegal under the rules that were in effect at the time.
Aero bars have a similar issue. They reduce power output due to compression of the chest cavity which reduces oxygen intake. However, they're still faster because of aerodymanics. The energy savings from the supported forearms is a secondary benefit.
Aero bars are just about unrideable on rough roads due to shock transmission, especially when paired with stiffer aero wheels and forks. This, in conjunction with the decreased steering control increases the crash probability.
While the aero bars were a factor in Fignon's loss,he could still have one without them, were it not for his saddle sore or the the decision not to use his aero helmet. The relevant point is that UCI permitted a non-level playing field by allowing Lemond to compete with the clip-on aero bars. Technically, they were illegal under the rules that were in effect at the time.
Having done probably 30,000 miles over the last 15 years flat out on TT bikes in the UCI allowed position, I would agree with these findings.
I've done about 10K on a bullhorn TT bike and the extra effort does extract a toll in the last 5 miles when you start to hallucinate and begin to bonk out.
You get used to steering in the aero position and I have brake levers for both the aero and the postman position but it's a TT bike and you learn to transition if you want to live.
Fignon described it best when he remonstrated that Lemond had an unfair advantage as Lemond had four points of support - elbows, feet, seat and hands and he had only three.
One thing not often mentioned is the aero position is much warmer in winter as you are tucked in and your warm exhaled breath flows back over your ears as well as down your chest.
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#214
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Aero and Super Aero
Same same
.......but very different.
What these two photos reveal is that Boardman was not a big guy nor was he muscular like the modern day speedsters - he was merely faster.
Last edited by Johno59; 11-29-19 at 08:32 AM.
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#215
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Last mile
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The Superman position was pioneered by Obree. He used it to win the 1995 World Championships. Boardman adopted the position and used it set a new record in the 4000m Pursuit at the 1996 World Championships. Very soon afterward he set a new Hour Record. Both were accomplished while Obree was afflicted with a virus. The UCI wasted no time instituting a new rule that made the position illegal, before Obree could regain his health and make his own attempt.
Unlike a traditional aero bar position, neither Obree's original Preying Mantis or Superman positions constrict the breathing. The cantilevered, Superman arm position provides the least support for the upper body, even less than bullhorn bars, yet Boardman used it to set world records in two disciplines.
Since the Superman position was used on the track, shock transmission is not a concern. Even if it were used on the road, the shock is transverse to the arm and not not axial, like it is through the upper arm on a traditional aero bar.
Unlike a traditional aero bar position, neither Obree's original Preying Mantis or Superman positions constrict the breathing. The cantilevered, Superman arm position provides the least support for the upper body, even less than bullhorn bars, yet Boardman used it to set world records in two disciplines.
Since the Superman position was used on the track, shock transmission is not a concern. Even if it were used on the road, the shock is transverse to the arm and not not axial, like it is through the upper arm on a traditional aero bar.
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Since the posts are now trending towards females in skinsuits and banned items. here's a picture of the Columbian women's team in their banned skinsuits.
Photo deleted per PM request of VintageTTfan.
Photo deleted per PM request of VintageTTfan.
Last edited by T-Mar; 11-30-19 at 09:59 AM.
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Earlier in this thread I mentioned a pic of an experimental front wheel by Pino Morroni - finally I found it:
And a similar FIR posted by Bikeforums member Dawes-man:
Sorry if these have been posted before, this thread has so many pics that I'm not sure...
And a similar FIR posted by Bikeforums member Dawes-man:
Sorry if these have been posted before, this thread has so many pics that I'm not sure...
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#220
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I love these old ads, but I'm not sure I get this one. What is going on here?
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These illustrations sort-of explain the Simpson Lever Chain
https://www.sterba-bike.cz/fotka/176...esfoto?lang=EN
https://www.sterba-bike.cz/fotka/176...esfoto?lang=EN
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What is a Simpson lever chain?
By the way you I believe are the resident expert on Asian bicycle serial numbers and Centurions along with Robbie Tunes. I have tried to get German Centurion to email me back and tell me the Centurion Turbo TT bike story....why was it made...for who....for the general public...was it a an abandoned team project? What ideas do you have on it?
By the way you I believe are the resident expert on Asian bicycle serial numbers and Centurions along with Robbie Tunes. I have tried to get German Centurion to email me back and tell me the Centurion Turbo TT bike story....why was it made...for who....for the general public...was it a an abandoned team project? What ideas do you have on it?
Regarding the Centurion Turbo TT, it appears to have been a Centurion (Germany) project. All the samples that have surfaced are from European markets and were manufactured by Yamaguchi of Japan in 1988. Given the wide variety of builds, it may have been a frameset offering. In my opinion, it was marketed an an entry level TT-style bicycle for the average consumer and not as a competition model. The main evidence supporting this is the construction using seamed Tange Infinity tubing, which was typically found on upper entry models. The S-bend top tube is also a cost concession allowing it to built using standard lugs, rather than custom angle lugs or fillet brazing. Finally, how many pure TT bicycle do you see with rear dropout eyelets so that it could accommodate a fender or rack? Unfortunately, I'm not aware of any literature that has surfaced to provide a definitive answer. For a more detailed discussion of this model, please see https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...n-experts.html
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#223
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America
Goddammit! That is a sweet piece of kit, I mean...…...smoke!!!
Last edited by Johno59; 11-30-19 at 01:16 PM.
#224
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Isn't it obvious?
I know right! Are those cocktail cherries?!? Or is she handing him her hotel room key? What the hell? Did Campy go cheesy lounge lizard on this one? Is it Freudian? Obviously it is an inside joke....but does anyone get it?
P.S. On second thought, or first thought, it has to be about an out of town fling. But I still don't get the two cherries or whatever they are. They are orbs because I blew up the picture. Forgive my detective work but I love detective work.
P.S. On second thought, or first thought, it has to be about an out of town fling. But I still don't get the two cherries or whatever they are. They are orbs because I blew up the picture. Forgive my detective work but I love detective work.
#225
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These wheels were on Facebook two days ago and I heard you were looking for some! No relation.
And a topical picture of some nice bikes.
And a topical picture of some nice bikes.
Last edited by m_sasso; 12-01-19 at 02:55 AM.
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