genejockey 

Ah, a noob comes in and starts throwing elbows. Bike Forums is back to normal. Nature is healing....

livedarklions

Absent from this description is the massive numbers of "hybrids" that have been sold over the past few decades. The numbers of those dwarf high end road bike and Rivendell style bikes combined.

My problem with descriptions like that is they generally ignore about 80% of the market because it consists of no true Scotsmen. The vast majority of new bikes sold to adults are sub-$1000. You would never know that reading bf.

livedarklions

I think you've mischaracterized his stance a bit. His point is that a lot of people are being driven away from bicycling because the marketing is pushing the idea that ordinary riding requires people to be kitted out as if they were racing. In his view, people are either being conned into over-spending for features that are unsuitable for the type of riding they're really going to be doing with false promises that these features will make them faster, or they're just not going to take up biking because they don't want to dress up like low-rent astronauts.
Where I think there's a disconnect between his product line and his writing is that much of his "racing is ruining the industry" argument is based on racing mentality creating a high cost barrier to entry for consumers, and his frames being very expensive, containing esthetic features that run up the costs, but probably won't mean much to this theoretical general consumer that's being driven away. To use a car analogy, his argument is basically people are being sold finicky and expensive race cars when they should be sold more appropriate everyday use sedans, but then he builds exquisitely crafted luxury sedans that aren't really built for the general consumer. He's arguing about the entry level, but he's building for the coniseur with a definitely retro sensibility.

As to things he's said that leave me scratching my head, I'll have to paraphrase the one I found absolutely incomprehensible because I am too lazy to find the exact quote--it was something like "if you make shifting too easy, people will shift too much." I don't know what the platonic ideal number of shifts is, but I don't think anyone is spending their rides playing with their shifters because they have index shifting and STI.

boilermaker1

This is the difference between people who are "into" something and people who simply do something. Some years ago I read a book called Waiting For the Weekend in which the writer addressed this penchant for turning simple activities into endeavors and working at leisure.

Kapusta

I think GP was prescient about some things, in particular I the idea that most people are not well served with the racing-oriented bikes that dominated “road” cycling over the past few decades.

i think Gravel bikes are moving to fill the gap that GP was talking about. Different approach, but addressing the needs.

Reading GPs stuff is what inspired me to build my first “Poor Man’s Riv” back in 2010 (Salsa Casseroll), and that really changed how I viewed road cycling.

It took another 8 years, but I have now also largely abandoned clipless after 20 years of dedicated use.

However, I love disc, and I hope to never own a threaded steerer again.

jack pot 

GP seems to think a bicycle needs to be a bicycle > seems like a practical idea in a world of impractical and superfluous ideas AND if his bikes are too $$$ you can enjoy "Just Ride" for under $10 on Amazon

Happy Feet

Quite true about the hybrid. It certainly was an in - between category that caught fire for a while. But, if you look at modern bicycle "buzz" they are mainly disparaged, even though the exact same concept is championed now as "gravel". Department store bikes also make up the majority of bicycles sold yet are equally denigrated as BSO's on BF. Seriously, the majority of bike riders virtually have no voice in the industry and are mocked by it. No wonder so few riders progress beyond entry level. From the outside, cycling culture is pretty arrogant and elitist. And I say that as someone who has been a part of it for nearly 50 years. I feel the elitist attitude every time I walk into a modern LBS.

My example was just a rough expression of what I see GP reacting or providing a counter balance POV to. One can expand/compare/contrast parts of it (which is fine) but I think the premise holds true. The majority voice of the industry pushes one agenda, GP in his way pushes another.

Happy Feet

Sorry for the non multi quote but just caught this. I very much agree. While he does talk about making cycling more simple his business boutiques the experience. Even still I'm glad he's there to provide the counter point.

I-Like-To-Bike

See the Discussion List, "Fifty Plus (50+)" for numerous posts and threads dedicated to fetish-like obsession with bicycling "performance" (speed, mileage, "dropping" (or being dropped by) strangers, pain IS gain "training" routines, etc.) from retired people who give, at best, lip service to leisurely bicycle riding.

Korina

And I'm so glad that there is room in bike riding for both.

royphotog

I am relatively new to this forum and am a returning rider, having got my bike off the hanger in the garage last fall and got the bug this summer. I read Just Ride, having found it on Kindle. I found it enjoyable and entertaining. I learned things from it and tended to agree with his Unracer philosophy because that fits where I am at with bikes, I am never going to be a racer.I did get the impression that he was criticizing the bicycle industry for their, as we would say in the motorcycle world, race on Sunday, sell on Monday way to sell bikes. That program sells bikes and accessories, and that makes the industry go round. But, from what I see, that is not the only sales program and Petersen sells bikes that fit with his philosophy and is sometimes a rare thing in the business world.Just like the motorcycle industry, the bicycle industry has become specialized—a bike for every nitch.

indyfabz

Yeah. Pretty obvious what the goal is.

indyfabz

Today I finished a 440 mile tour using my Nitto Big racks I got from Riv. Worth every penny. I don’t leave home without them.

Maelochs

For what I suppose you paid for them, I can see why you'd be afraid to let them out of your sight.

indyfabz

Bargain compared to the Beckman racks I got back in ‘99. Unfortunately, those were stolen from my house along with the bike they were attached to.

TugaDude

Grant Petersen is a lightning rod in the industry. He has had and always will have his detractors. Personally, I visit the Rivendell website to look around probably once a month on average. I sometimes read the "Blug" and sometimes the "Blahg".

The thing I respect about Grant is that he is pretty transparent generally and is honest about his feelings. It seems his company is frequently on the edge of profitability and he tells it like it is. It's hard to run a business in great times, I cannot fathom the added burden placed on small business at this time.

I've never owned a Rivendell, but would love to. Let me share a quick story that happened a few years ago. I was traveling for work and had to pass through a town about 2 hours north of St. Louis. Because I knew I was headed that way I jumped on Craigslist just to see if by chance anyone that way was selling any bikes or bike parts. Kill two birds with one stone since otherwise I would have no desire to travel just for a purchase.

So as it turns out there was a fellow advertising some vintage bicycle components and some of what he displayed in the ad was of interest. I stopped in to meet him, a super-nice man, and he took me to his basement shop where he stored his bikes and bike parts. He had several very nice bikes including a custom-made tandem he and his wife rode. And among the other bikes was a Rivendell Atlantis. It was a few years old and was the first one I'd seen in person. It was gorgeous. Every detail was perfect, the lugs were beautifully done, not even a hint of any slop at the shore lines. The paint was immaculate and just the perfect colors. I was super impressed. Not many bikes have caused that sort of reaction.

The other thing I'll say is in all my years of perusing Craigslist, I have yet to find anyone selling a Rivendell. I think the owners tend to keep them and pass them down. And you can do that with a Rivendell. They may not be cheap but if you care for them they'll be around long after the carbon and even aluminum bikes. So they are an investment. Can you buy steel-framed bikes cheaper? Of course. But if you want a Rivendell, you want a Rivendell.

Some don't understand that. I do.

Germany_chris

Not to mention no one bats an eye at $1000 wheels but a $400 or so in racks and it's wow those are expensive.

I-Like-To-Bike

Most people, including most bicyclists, might bat both eyes at complete bicycles costing over $1000. The enthusiasts and bicycling mavens who are aware (let alone care) of the existence of Grant Peterson or Rivendell Bicycles are not necessarily representative of the bicycling population outside of the insular confines of Bike Forums.

Leebo

It's a free county. All riders and bike makers can find a niche. Have not been to the site in a while. He lost me at rim brakes and 1" headtubes.

2old

I enjoy Riv's blug, blaug, overall ethic and reports on operation of the business; have seen several of their bikes and, while impressed by the construction, not interested in acquiring one at this time since "90's" or so steel frames are adequate now. Might purchase a couple for my wife and me at some time in the future since she likes their lines and it would be fun to try them for mild off road and.around town type use.

Germany_chris

We’re posting on an enthusiast website I care not one iota what bob two houses down thinks.

livedarklions

No one? Seriously?

livedarklions

Plenty of people on this site would bat an eye at a $1000 wheelset, especially in the General Cycling forum.

Phil_gretz

You'll never be on my ignore list. But watch yourself...

I-Like-To-Bike

B-b-but those kind of people and their posts, alleged "goals" and thoughts are apparently unworthy and held in contempt by the would-be Kool Kidz of BF, eh?