RobbieTunes

Six jours

I use the pedals that would have been used on that particular bike. Most of the time, with a classic race bike, that means clips and straps. With correct shoes, they work very well. I still don't understand why people buy classic bikes and then "improve" them with new parts. C'est la vie.

I do wish I still had my Adidas Systeme Three stuff...

I crashed my brains out a couple of times with the original Look pedals and the red "floating" cleats. Those cleats allowed you to build up rotational momentum on the down stroke, and there wasn't enough retention to prevent your foot coming out when you hit the stop.

I like Grant Peterson's schtick for the most part, but his stance against foot retention is silly. Some type of retention is better in almost every circumstance. I'll buy that few riders are pulling up most of the time, but any experienced rider is going to be pulling up some of the time. He dismisses the importance of that for climbing or accelerating, but his dismissal isn't actually supported by anything he's written. And he also ignores the fact that it is much safer to have you feet attached to the pedals, especially on rough roads.

Oh, and helmets are for noobs and incompetents.

Shp4man

Not again...

CV-6 

So how do you figure the pedals were responsible for the crash?

P4D 

Before I got on a real bike and started riding, I did spin (or cycle) classes in a gym pretty heavily - 5 times a week or so. Those bikes had options, cages or clipless. I started out with cages because I didn't have SPD shoes, and then worked with the SPD. We lobbied and had power meters, computers, the works on those bikes and that is how I learned how best to maximize pedal stroke. I'm not perfect at it, but I did learn how to alternate with push and pull, and I've noticed it helps me on the road.

wanlogan

I hope you're not serious, especially after that ironic "crashing your brains out" statement. I know an old guy who simply would never wear a helmet, mostly due to styling/weight/wind through-the-hair BS statements.
Wear that helmet!

Anyway, I ride mountain with Crank Bros Candy SLs and Road with Look Keos. They both have a decent platform that allows for temporary riding w/out the cleated shoes. After learning how to clip in, you can pretty much clip in/out with any pedal system. Plus, after a while, (and a few embarassing red-light/stop sign falls) everything becomes intuitive.

bikingshearer 

I remember clips and straps and wearing Detto Pietro shoes with TA/Anquetil long cleats. I rode from California to Washington DC in them one summer. They were the best thing going - at the time. But they always had issues, such as:

-- getting the %^#$ cleats attached. The nails that came with the TA cleats were effing useless - and that is being polite. Fortunately, an LBS owner knew the trick - rivet 'em. Problem solved. Bit that still left . . .

-- discovering that Dettos plus slick floors equaled prat falls worthy of Laurel and Hardy. Walking was a chore at the best of times.

-- And let's not forget the numb feet from the tightened down straps. And yes, I installed them the right way.

-- You've been out in the countryside for 30 miles, with the straps tightened and pedaling away with a stupid grim on your face because it is such a lovely day. Now you are comingbak into town, and you come to the first stop light. You hit the brakes because it just turned red and . . . you forgot to loosen the strap. If you are fortunate, you merely scare yourself. If you are not so fortunate, another Laurel and Hardy moment for the cagers' amusement.

That is why I have SPDs on everything I ride. I can get MBT shoes that retain 95% of road bike pedal stiffness (and better than any clip-and-strap combo I used, including using Binda Extra straps) with a recessed cleat that means I can walk on pretty much any surface. I do not have foot "hot spot" issues with them (bit I undersgtand that someone else might, and for them I'd ay try a different clipless system, a la bigbossman). They are far easier to get out of quickly that a tightened down strap (I don't do track stands - never learned how), so they are safer at traffic lights.

So, let's see - the clipless stuff gives me better function and better comfort on the bike, and allows easier, safer walking off the bike. Now the thermonuclear colors of some of today's shoes leave a great deal to be desired (what's wrong with black?), but that aside, I think clipless is the way to go. In fact, if some law was passed that required me to use downtube friction shifting, I could live with that (I'd rather not, but I could readjust). But if there was a similar law banning clipless pedals, I'd start throwing beverage makings into Boston Harbor . . . .

And that, incidentally, is why some people buy classic bikes and then "improve" them. Some modern components simply work better than their classic counterparts. Brakes, for example. And, yes, clipless pedals.


For the sake of civility, I'm going to ignore the helmet comments lest we get stuck in the same time-loop hell that is the A&S "Helmets cramp my style" saga.

RFC

+1 We need stickies for:

1) Do you use clipless pedals?
2) Do you wear fancy bike clothes?
3) I don't get why people don't like gears?

Of course, that would cut down at least 1/2 of the C&V traffic.

Been using Look Delta/Arc since 1980's and have them on a number of bikes.
Also use SPD mtb, SPD road, and toe clips.

cudak888 

FYI, helmet debates belong in A&S.

-Kurt

Six jours

I thought it was pretty obvious that I wasn't being serious. I keep forgetting that this is Bike Forums, where people will take anything seriously.

dman-ebike

After looking at countless pedals, I have found the perfect pedal for my Big Foot. After eyeing all the mks pedals and comparing, I decided those aren't big enough. Now don't anyone kick me or step on me for doing this! Ok here's a picture of my pedals. No straps or anything. Rpm is Rpm; the way I see it. Spin up smoothly and go like hell. Its a dk pc pedal. They are very light at only 5.45 oz each:

mkeller234

You like what you like. At least you found something that works for you.

bigbossman 

Hey - I was hip to it.

I confess - it was my fault, what with my off-hand "I always wear a helmet" comment. But in my defense, I did use the "innocent" emoticon, which I thought was the universally recognized sign of the brown-arm - a skill which I carefully honed and practiced during my 8 year stint in Catholic School.

I can't help it - I'm a troublemaker. TeeHee. Or not.

thenomad

yes

khatfull

SPD-SL all the way Bay-Bee. Will never use anything else (of the current crop anyway).

randyjawa 

Yup, clipless on everything except the new Trek track bike. Still trying to catch the second pedal.

mtnbke

I pulled the Superbe Pro pedals off the vintage ride and sold 'em on eBay. I never could find clips deep enough for a 50+ cycling shoe anyway, and clipless pedals don't care how small/big the shoe is. I run Bepop pedals on the vintage/race/tandem. I no longer run clipless on the mountain bike after an accident where I had a devastating concussion going 1mph when my cleat rotated and I couldn't release.

I use a pair of size 52 Sidi Dominator (mountain bike) shoes regardless of which bike I'm riding. The mountain bike sole may offend roadie purists, but I like being able to walk normally.

rhm

You know, I kinda enjoyed the helmet debate here on C & V because I know the participants to some degree. Opinions associated with personalities are more interesting than opinions in isolation. I rarely open A & S, so most of the people there are complete strangers whose opinions I value less. (Note: Kurt Chip &c, I'm obviously not talking about you).

Anyway, that said, lemme turn to the foot retention thing. Bearing in mind that this is C & V.

I got my first toeclips in 1978, my first bike shoes (Detto Pietro; still have 'em) in 1981, followed by Beta Bikers in '83 (wish I still had those). Moved to SPD's in the late 90's, and now also have two bikes set up with Look pedals. And I must say, all these changes were big improvements, especially the SPD's. Foot retention made a big difference to the way I rode, especially when I was 17; but there came a point when I'd learned it, and now unless I'm doing bunny hops etc I don't really get any benefit from them. I loved that burst of speed I could get by pulling back/up/forward when necessary, but now I spin at a much higher cadence where that benefit is greatly diminished.

In the end I find it depends a lot on the bicycle:
1. On the recumbent I really need a clipless foot retention system; otherwise my feet literally fall off the pedals (that's the Look pedals)
2. On the tandem I need them almost as much; the stoker is apt to make movements I hadn't anticipated, and the SPD's keep my feet secure.
3. My Norman Rapide is almost a museum piece, and I keep it as close to 1950 original as I can, complete with toe clips.
4. I commute on a folding bike, 16 miles by bike and 100 miles by train every day, and it absolutely has to fold up as small as possible. Folding pedals are platform pedals; so in the end, for most of my riding I don't have any kind of foot retention, and I don't miss it in the least. So since I've been riding the folding bike, the SPD's and such have disappeared off most of my bikes.

atoms

Yes! I plan to never even try clipless, lest they turn out to be as great as the evangelists claim they are. For me, the more cycling becomes festooned with accessories - clown spandex, cleated footwear, wrap-around martian shades etc, the less integrated it is with everyday life. Biking is how I get around. Requiring special shoes for it is just about inconceivable to me.

MKahrl

I wish I could find that study today as well but I remember it pretty clearly when it came out in an article in Bicycling! magazine back in the mid 1980's. Everyone was shocked! We were all quite certain that we had been pulling up on the pedal. That included the professional bike racers who were the test subjects. The test rig had sensors in the pedal that measured the amount of force on the spindle in all directions. Throughout the revolution there was always downward force, just less of it at the top of the stroke.

That's not to say there might not be some advantages to unweighting the upstroke leg. It means that the downstroke leg has a little less work to do. Whether this increases the efficiency of riding a bike is still left to conjecture; I don't know of any studies that say it does.

I've been a locked-in, full retention type of rider for the last thirty years and it's what I feel comfortable with. The last two years I've been swapping platform pedals onto my nice bike for certain applications and I haven't noticed any mammoth loss of power or efficiency. Not even a detectable loss. That includes steep hill climbing.

I still enjoy that feeling of engagement when your shoe locks into a pedal at the start of a long ride where you know neither foot is going to touch ground for an hour or more.

On the other hand, when getting ready to commute to work on city streets; I don't mind missing the click.

fahrrad streber

I'm a big fan of clipless--the first time I rode with them I could tell a difference in speed and energy exerted. A little over a year into them and I even have yet to fall, but I always clip out for stops.

I use SPD-SLs and the platform is big enough that I can still wear street shoes, so for the around town trips and errands there is no need for the cleats. I've worn everything from five fingers to dress shoes on them--no problem.

RobbieTunes

I promise to stay out of it.


The guy who showed me how to corner in criteriums, etc is a speed freak; he's won a couple of state championships, so I listen. However, he never could get used to clipless, and he wears 3 straps (yep, 3) on his Campy Record track pedals with Asics track shoes. He can pretty much do a handstand at stoplights, so I guess getting out of them isn't a problem. I've seen him draft a UPS truck at about 45mph, and I'm not sure he can do that without some kind of attachment system.

However, one day, his L pedal simply fell off on a climb, in a neighborhood, and off he went. He still likes those three straps, since it would have happened no matter what pedal he used.

The 7 staples in the back of his head, well, that's a different thread, now, isn't it?

norskagent

track bike 1 / commuter = mtn. bike clipless pedals and shoes ( walkable)
track bike 2 / cafe' bike = old track pedals/ toe clips
downshift bike = old road pedals / toe clips
sti shift bike = new road pedals / road shoes (can't walk)

jfmckenna

I like to keep my vintage light weight vintage so I have clips and straps on her. I do however race her once a year for giggles and fun and I mount SPD-SL's for that. I have modified some mountain bike shoes by cutting the tread odd to the shoe base at the right time to act as a cleat for the pedal and when I strap those on I am in tight. On my vintage touring/townie bike I have SPD mountain pedals that flip over to a platform, I've begun to really like those because they are versatile.

rjn3100

+1 on the mtn bike clipless pedals and shoes, on my erand bike I got the pedals with clips on on side and flat on the other....got brain freez and can't think of the name.