rhm

I've hinted at this bike in a few places over the last few months, including a thread in the frame builders subforum and maybe one in the long distance forum. This is an interesting project and there are several things we could talk about, but let me just post the photos for now.

This is more or less what the bike looks like now:


Actually, the bell has moved from the stem to the right shifter; and I've changed the saddle. But this is pretty close to what it looks like now.

What's so strange about that, you wonder... well, here's the drivetrain:


The shifters... yes, three of them. All Suntour!


What does the bar end shifter do?



Now that I think about it, I think I changed that bar end shifter; now there's a thumb shifter just inboard of the left brake lever. Still Suntour, though!

Rear brake:


I've been riding this bike since March or so, mostly at night, on unpaved surfaces where possible. Longest rides have been around 100 km.

Reynolds 

Very nice! Many many years ago I had a Citroen 2CV that you could adjust headlights en route, just like in your bike.

Nemosengineer 

That's just amazing!!! I'm along for this ride and can't wait for the details.

: Mike

Reynolds 

Is that a SunTour S-1? (had to check Disraeli Gears for that).

rhm

Really!?!? I didn't know that! It's oddly appropriate that it's been done before on a French car.

Yep, S-1 derailleur. I don't know the exact chronology, but Suntour released this derailleur a short time before the company went under . I don't know why they brought this to market at that point, but I suspend there's a story there.

The S-1 was supposed to work with a specific twist grip shifter with integrated brake levers. I didn't get one of those. They were made for ⅞" handlebar, and I don't know if there was a version made for 15/16“ bars. This is important because of something that Disraeli Gears doesn't mention: this derailleur uses a lot of cable pull. An ordinary bar end shifter, like the Suntour ones we all love, doesn't pull enough cable to move this derailleur over a 7-speed cassette. Hence the big ugly downtube shifters.

Lascauxcaveman 

I'll shoot for the Understatement Award and just say there's... a lot going on with that build. I've had jyl 's '61 Bianchi Sepecialisima thread open for a about a week now and am slowly picking my way through it, again, too. Good companion piece for us fans of Gugificazione.

nlerner

Clearly an anachronism wrapped up in an enigma.

rhm

Here's where the bell is now.



This is a mirrycle bell that came with a clamp to fit it to the handlebar. Unscrewed from that clamp, it actually functions pretty well as a wingnut for the shifters. If the shifter gets loose, you just twist the bell a little. Works fine as a bell, and the shifter still works.

And here's the thumb shifter that moves the headlight now:


The thumb shifter now sits right by my left thumb, and it's easy to move it without taking my hand off the brake. Very convenient, and it makes riding at night a lot of fun.

bear_a_bug 

Extremely quirky build, and looks like it was fun to plan!

I've never seen anything like that rear brake cable hanger. What's going on there?

sheddle

I believe the idea with the S1 was that it was good for commuter/city bikes, as tucking the rear mech under the chainstay makes it harder to bang against doorframes or get bet out of position if the bike falls over.

rhm

That's a Suntour Power Hanger, though slightly modified. It gives slightly more predictable braking, especially in the front, and has the advantage that you don't need a cable stop for the brake cable.. Tektro made a similar device (that's what I have in front). I don't really like the design of either the Suntour or Tektro ones, and one of these days I may try cutting my own design from bar aluminum.

Yes, that is what I heard. Maybe I read it on Disraeli Gears? Certainly the derailleur seems very tough; I have a hunch it will last a long time. But as I hinted before, I think there is more to the story of this derailleur than we've been told. The design has some clever features and some not-so-clever features. It's clearly based on the Nivex and Altenburger derailleurs of the 1930s and 1950's respectively. And, bizarrely, the S-1 derailleur indexes at the derailleur, not the shifter. That's, well, not a great idea.

These derailleurs are fairly plentiful NOS on eBay, and I would expect they will remain so since so few frames were ever made to work with them. I doubt they made many derailleurs; but they sold far fewer than they made.

I did actually try this derailleur with a microshift 12-speed bar end shifter, which moves enough cable to work the S-1, but it didn't shift as well as these ugly downtube shifters. Downtube shifters are much better for Rinko purposes, of course, and I hope to use this bike in some Rinko-style travel on public transportation (bus or train),. So my choice of the S-1 is related to that; I believe the derailleur will be less likely to get damaged. But I haven't tried RInko packing the bike yet.

3speedslow

There is a special thing about night riding. Thanks for bring out this build for us to gawk at!

Okay, that’s twice you spit on the long handle shifters, why so much distaste?

sheddle

It's cited on Disraeli Gears but the rationale is also stated in the Suntour product catalogs of the period.

In-derailleur indexing never caught on (on road derailleurs, they add a lot of weight due to the required cam system) but I think they'd be fine on a city bike. They also add the weirdness of being able to use "indexing" on a friction shifter. Also I *think* stuff like the Bridgestone Klimatic rear derailleurs with in-derailleur cam indexing were used fairly frequently on Japanese city bikes. IIRC the only racing-grade RD to use this kind of system was the Dura-Ace AX, which was why it was unusually heavy for a top-of-the-line derailleur.

To be honest, a lot of this sounds cool but just makes me wonder, why not use an IGH instead, hah.

Schwinn used this derailleur on one of their last hybrids, the CrissCross, IIRC.
"

79pmooney

I like those shifters! They remind me of the Willys jeep I learned to drive in. 3-speed stick on the floor and to its left, a second stick for high and low ranges. And that oversized friction adjust on the rear shifter! Cool, cool, cool! In proper marine brass. I also like the headlight on the right to better illuminate the road edge; the stuff we really need to see. And the vertical adjust- yeah!

Your bike looks like something I might do except I would take it to very different places. (My Mooney sports an 1/8" chainring triple fix gear crankset with a Q-factor of 135mm. That took a little ingenuity and machining, (Thanks TiCycles. They don't post "Gugifacazione" or any other such term on their website, but they can certainly do it!)

For us diehards - a good working relationship with a framebuilder willing to stretch boundaries - priceless! TiCycles as we speak is making me a 34.9 to 31.,8 reducer with the smaller hole set completely to one side so I can mount a 34.9 ST FD clamp tight against a 31.8 ST and move the FD inboard 1.5 mm. (I currently have excellent shifting using a 9-speed clamp-on FD with a .004" steel plate fitted inside the outer cage but chain rub happens in 2/3s of my gears. This for my non-C&V titanium bike to get a regular triple down to a Q-factor of 143 - from the Shimano 165! (The doc told me 40 years ago to listen to my knees; that not paying attention meant having 3rd-party ones installed. Those knees would rather go up hills on my track standard chainline fix gear than the Shimano triple running 28-28! Time for action.)

I've long hated handlebar bags because of what they did to steering. But Gugie's Canti racks look like a very clean answer, I'm probably still 5-10 years away, but that is half a century closer than I was 5 years ago! I've seen his work first hand.

Nice bike! Thanks for posting it.

Ben

Steel Charlie

Certainly looks weighty enough to provide some excellent exercise

thinktubes 

Super Cool!

More gizmos than the Mach 5

Charles Wahl

This is extremely interesting, as a new departure.
Is that a bike by Cees Raas (i.e. Dutch)?
I have to get one of those headlight aimers, so I can give the arrogant "flashholes" on the bike paths at night a dose of their own blinding medicine.

due ruote 

Quirky is good. I like it. The metallic rose is nice too. I think possibly something is living under your bar tape, though.

gugie 

Two video views of that "hi/lo" beam

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gugie/...7712484653933/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/gugie/...7712484653933/

Early mock-up of the mechanism. I modified a Dia Compe cantilever spring.


Caveman jig for S-1 derailleur hanger. Ugly, but actually a fairly precise dingus. I checked alignment on my flat table to make sure the derailleur hanger is in the right spot

gugie 

PM me if interested (yes, it's a Cees Raas).

nlerner

I think that build is crying out for a quadruple crankset.

gugie 

That's what low trail is all about, but it's good to have the load lower, just above the tire.

gugie 

Quadruple and three speed IGH + freewheel

100+ speeds

nlerner

You're clearly being too conservative. I say Rohloff!

mechanicmatt

I love it. I had to look at this several times to get exactly what the third shifter was doing.

I have redone two bikes with that shifter and its not the easiest to deal with to say the least.

How does it shift? Any issues. Beautiful build.