Nightdiver

What are you doing on BikeForums?! Don't you know that things are only black and white here and the loudest group is always right? Seriously though Jur, good on ya for having such an attitude. It has been nice to see someone who was put off enough by the whole process to withdraw their purchase, still have positive things to contribute to the discussion.

RatonLaveur

This thread is gold. It's stressful,dramatic
informative.
It reveals the best and the worst in humans and manufacturing.
It is the written testimony of a biblical struggle between engineering and quackery, a true, bona fide, good versus evil story of epic proportions.
A truly philosphical struggle opposing hope and a down to earth sense of reality, often veering on the verge of impending doom or victorious redemption. My oh my how you guys and Mr. Boutakis managed to do this I cannot fathom, but it's good.
I'm still in the camp of Go Peter Go. The visionary albeit overreaching underdog in him I do so love.

ThorUSA

That's was fun to read
wish I had the talent to write like this


Thor

RichardLee

First, my surprise: This thread has over 142K reads at the time of writing?! And it's a relatively new thread. Wow.

Top non-sticky threads in Folding Bikes in order of view count with start date to put in perspective:
Swift, 571K, Jan. 2005
Bikes we like, 366K, Jun. 2013
Downtube, 302K, Jul. 2005
Birdy, 162K, Oct. 2008
Bikesdirect Mini Velo, 153K, May 2011
Helix, 142K, Mar. 2016
Folders in the wild, 137K, Mar. 2013


Second, I'm glad progress updates from the Helix backers' portal are discussed here. Since am no longer a backer as of nearly 2 weeks ago, my access has been revoked. Still, I'm curious as to how this plays out.

The next scheduled bi-weekly update should arrive tonight or some time this weekend as thread followers are aware.

maxxevv

In soldier speak, heroes die young. And even if they die, its never a given that they will be vaunted as such. History has a habit of not portraying people nicely if they don't leave a positive legacy, even if they "sacrificed " themselves for whatever the fashionable cause of that moment in time was.

In catholic speak, Saints are canonisd not just because they were good people, they have to qualify as such by having verified 'miracles' attributed to their influence. The 2nd part hasn't happened yet.

We don't know yet if it would be St Nicholas or Freddy Kruger that we will meet in this long drawn drama at the last and final season closer. So far Freddy has been making his presence felt a whole more though.

RichardLee

That's very thought-provoking.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

To anyone here who is a backer:

Has a bi-weekly update not been posted yet?

Gibsonsean

Not yet. Let go of the bike but not the obsession I see!

Pine Cone

Hot off the presses...

Pictures of two test frames, all but the rear swingarms posted as well. Maybe we will all get our bikes someday!

Gibsonsean

Hot out of the inert welding chamber I think you mean! Lots of nice piccies. The welds are beautiful.

Jipe

The next update = two weeks from now = for Christmas !

Joe Remi

Keep hope alive!

SurfHenk

Although there is still some road ahead, the update posted Today on the Helix backer webpage does increase my confidence level in the project by quite a lot. The front part of the bike (fork and front triangle) seem ready for production. This to me indicates that the rear triangle should be doable as well and therefor not far behind..
Fingers crossed..

spambait11

This bike has some truly nice welds! Looking forward to riding it!

MrFlamey

It's exciting to see some real progress toward the test bike, even though it's quite behind schedule. To be fair, as a pre-order customer, I had followed the project for a while and knew it was prone to delays, so although I did want a bike this year, I was kind of expecting it might turn up sometime in 2018. Time estimates pulled out of my ass, but I'm predicting I'll have it by early Summer 2018, and the backers will have theirs by Spring, but if I get mine by Spring (much better season for riding here in Japan), I will be over the moon.

The update mentions that the frames shown in the picture haven't been ground, polished or blasted, and given that Peter mentioned he was considering shot-peening them, I am very curious to see what the final finish will be. I'm hoping for shot-peening, because the pics of that finish looked so damn good, and it's meant to increase weld-strength, so my fingers are crossed.

Despite being frustrating at times (much less so thanks to the bi-weekly updates), Helix has been and will continue to be a fascinating project to watch, and I'm glad this thread exists to keep me sane

Jipe

Pre-ordered bike might be delivered earlier than backers bike, it is even possible that the bike are commercially available before a delivery to backers.

In such a delayed project with unexpected additional costs, the most important is to collect money on top of the funding by the backers, pre-orders are the first possibility, selling commercial bikes is the second. So, producing bikes for the pre-orders and for new customers has an higher priority than producing bikes for the backers.

Such a process already happened in other kickstarter projects.

RichardLee

Thank you many backers for describing the update here.

Glad to hear a great milestone has been (almost) reached. I feel both happy for backers as well as envious.

In the next update, there will likely be a note that in the new year, bikes will go out to the third party standards tester in the US we read about a while back. I of course can't look it up so unsure if it was a backer who posted the names of likeliest testing labs or whether it was Peter himself who mentioned it.

In any case, it' great that we, err I mean you guys, are finally seeing light at the end of the tunnel. It will be a bitter-sweet day some time next year when you finally get to ride perhaps the greatest folder ever invented.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The choice was ultimately mine but departure wasn't exactly voluntary. Oh now it can be said! No hard feelings though. As you saw in the backers' forum right to the end, I praised Peter's leadership, ingenuity and hard work.

Probably everyone is wondering this. No, it was not because of the conflict with you-know-who in the forum although it triggered a communication series. There it came out in a big way that Peter in Freddy-mode was, shall we say, displeased with investigative information I related to the backers (ie. investors) over time. I won't detail the back and forth but he should have been forthright about them first place which includes, though not just, the doxxing of the factory location. He knows that I know a lot more which in my opinion, hence self-restraint and sound judgement, backers are not necessarily entitled to...which then relates back to the first point.

In better times, Peter in St. Nicholas-mode (just as I was to him) referred to it in many private communications as "passion" (for the Helix project), the popular lexicon these days for just enthusiasm. That's for many deeds over time such as free helpful business development suggestions, being an volunteer shill IRL spreading the word of the upcoming Helix folder, the .bike domain and logo designs.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Speaking of which, would a backer please relate to me what remarks if any was left in the "Helix Logo" forum topic regarding the second decal design I posted - the one with www Helix and Ti in periodic table motif.

Gibsonsean

Couldn't find such a thread. Closest was the Kickstarter logo thread and that hasn't moved for more than a year.

Jonesandrew

@Richard Lee: I've been a regular visitor to the backers forum over the past few months and I've never noticed the Logo thread. How long ago did you post it? Care to share again?

RichardLee

Whaaat?! I spent time dreaming up and drawing those designs. The second design was my very last post in the forum and final gift to the Helix community. Gift stolen

wwwDOTdropboxDOTcom/sh/cokfcl49nrjnmjo/AAAANk3k2TdfZ2kH8CG3jKYWa (go to Bike Stuff folder, it'll be obvious which files)

The entire thread was deleted out of spite? Did Minitrue just make me an Unperson? Freddy Kruger, St. Nick….well you can add another metaphor...Big Brother. Absolutely no information other than allowed by the Inner Party. Why such secrecy to backers (people who support you and not just financially either)?

If a lot of my posts that backers found useful and thankful for have gone down the Memory Hole, then there is an atmosphere of fear and conformity to Ingsoc in the backers' forum now.

In defense, I can only say one had to strike a balance between what is in the interest of backers and respecting privacy. I drew a line between selective facts which I think backers (as investors) are entitled to while withholding other Helix business related matter judged unnecessary, irrelevant or too proprietary, and certainly all personal stuff.

Weigh the transgression, if perceived that way, with all the other stuff I did out of good will for the Helix project and community. Look at the big picture!

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Gibsonsean, Jonesandrew or other backer, what about my farewell address to fellow backers ending with the live long and prosper Vulcan salute?

Gibsonsean

Think you may be getting a bit carried away there Richard.

I guess Peter sees himself as the arbiter of what goes on his forum. Fair enough. There are others and it is just a bike.

I think I remember skimming a farewell from you back before the last update.

spambait11

+1

Let it be, RichardLee. You’re out now. Don’t let it bother you.

Btw, a backer is NOT an investor: we don’t own stock in Helix. We gave away our money freely.

Jonesandrew

Richard,
Thanks for the dropbox link. That's a neat idea, but after your little contretemps with PB I doubt that it will ever make it to the frame, even if he secretly likes it. I'll take a guess that we'll get a laser cut headbadge made in house.

Jipe

Not only Helix has (big) delay problems and no clear planning, the VelloBike+ project is now 8 months too late and also no clear delivery planning https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...-bike/comments

These two person did already a successful project and do not build the frame themselves (BTW, even if most models have an aluminum frame, there is also a titanium frame model).

Dahon.Steve

Agreed.

After seeing all the interest in this thread, it's obvious an opportunity was lost. Peter should have started a REALITY TV SHOW and could have made a fortune doing that! Seriously, who would believe you can make a popular show based on Duck hunting? This bicycle startup has waaay more drama for sure!

RichardLee

Well, the Helix is his baby after all so yeah, he's being Big Bro about everything. You may recall the "My Way" music video meme I posted a few months ago jestingly portraying, what many were already gossiping about Peter's autocratic, micromanaging behavior and more recently the application of r/K theory in analogy to his uncompromising long term engineering quality. Whether or not one is getting carried away with Orwellian metaphors, is it a fair portrayal of Peter on some level?

Getting "fired" though is ironic in that non-disclosure constraints are now inapplicable therefore I am free to spill ALL the beans if so desired. Staring with you can get a full refund via Kickstarter. Not that this isn't already known among KS afidionados, but many backers, believing it was the only route, sold their pledge often at a discount because for whatever reason, like they lost faith in the project, needed the money, got another bike instead, etc., they wanted to back out. Of course, I could have been an unusual case. As for the loss of faith, we'll see in the update this weekend.

Glad you like it. Yeah, I think that is what BB, err I mean PB will do. In fact, a CNC'd or laser engraved front plate is consistent with the "stealth mode" insignia that Markus preferred in the thread. Even I admit that "barber pole" design at the front is over the top. However, I like a bit of colorful highlighting. So if and when I get a Helix (years later through retail distribution channels once established), I'll make and put on the decals except the "barber pole".

You should have seen some of the shenanigans in the backers' forum. Broadcasting them would have drawn in a lot of gawkers for sure.