Trek Checkpoint Tire Clearance Debacle - the plot thickens?!
#26
Sunshine
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 16,610
Bikes: '18 class built steel roadbike, '19 Fairlight Secan, '88 Schwinn Premis , Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross V4, '89 Novara Trionfo
Mentioned: 123 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10954 Post(s)
Liked 7,483 Times
in
4,185 Posts
One of my 80s road bikes had that small amount of clearance with conti gp 25mm tires thst measure 27. It seems dicey on a paved road bike.
the big difference here is riding dirt trails vs gravel roads.
obligatory wet gravel pic with 40mm tires on a frame that can fit 50mm...
Last edited by mstateglfr; 02-19-19 at 09:33 PM.
#27
Occam's Rotor
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,248
Mentioned: 61 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2366 Post(s)
Liked 2,331 Times
in
1,164 Posts
#28
Occam's Rotor
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,248
Mentioned: 61 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2366 Post(s)
Liked 2,331 Times
in
1,164 Posts
Wife has a road bike which I crammed in 38mm tires with essentially no clearance.
My gravel/road bike has the same tires with plenty of clearance (although maybe not 4mm).
#29
Occam's Rotor
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,248
Mentioned: 61 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2366 Post(s)
Liked 2,331 Times
in
1,164 Posts
clearance
#30
- Soli Deo Gloria -
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Northwest Georgia
Posts: 14,779
Bikes: 2018 Rodriguez Custom Fixed Gear, 2017 Niner RLT 9 RDO, 2015 Bianchi Pista, 2002 Fuji Robaix
Mentioned: 235 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6844 Post(s)
Liked 736 Times
in
469 Posts
https://weightweenies.starbike.com/f...f=113&t=143554
-Tim-
#31
Occam's Rotor
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,248
Mentioned: 61 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2366 Post(s)
Liked 2,331 Times
in
1,164 Posts
Well, fortunately the frame is made of carbon fiber, so one can increase the clearance just by melting and re-forming the carbon. A little bit of acetone goes a long way.
#32
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: San Diego
Posts: 2,235
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 353 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 92 Times
in
67 Posts
I looked at the Revolt this weekend and it's full of proprietary crap in areas that baffled me. The seatpost is in the shape of a triangle so you can only use that specific one.
Their $2800 model comes with mechanical brifters going to this bulgy thing in the middle of your bar that has a hydro reservoir going to the calipers. Whats the point of that?
None of the big guys can seem to make a regular bike that just happens to take big tires.
Even the new SuperX can take a huge tire but you need a wheel that has to be redished for a special offset.
Then Salsa doesn't know how to make a fork apparently.
Specialized makes a suspension system that can get filled with water easily and wreck havoc.
Their $2800 model comes with mechanical brifters going to this bulgy thing in the middle of your bar that has a hydro reservoir going to the calipers. Whats the point of that?
None of the big guys can seem to make a regular bike that just happens to take big tires.
Even the new SuperX can take a huge tire but you need a wheel that has to be redished for a special offset.
Then Salsa doesn't know how to make a fork apparently.
Specialized makes a suspension system that can get filled with water easily and wreck havoc.
#33
Senior Member
I would understand why someone wouldnt want to measure a frame to see how much clearance they have, if I rode on gravel? I think I'm going to need some help with this...
#34
Occam's Rotor
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,248
Mentioned: 61 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2366 Post(s)
Liked 2,331 Times
in
1,164 Posts
(Also, having grown up in Chicago, I know what the roads are really like.)
#35
Senior Member
This whole gripe about Trek not knowing how much extra space they want to recommend for tires is a bit wierd though. Are bizzare gripes like this commonplace amongst gravelly type folks?
Last edited by Abe_Froman; 02-19-19 at 11:51 PM.
#36
Occam's Rotor
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,248
Mentioned: 61 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2366 Post(s)
Liked 2,331 Times
in
1,164 Posts
#38
Senior Member
I mean...if you're the kind of person thats going to have an emotional breakdown during dirty kanza when you find out your bike doesnt have 55mm between chainstays....perhaps it would be sensible to, say, measure the chainstay width before you buy it? Maybe i'm just a bit nuts...
Last edited by Abe_Froman; 02-20-19 at 01:23 AM.
#39
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: San Diego
Posts: 2,235
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 353 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 92 Times
in
67 Posts
I should think a $1 ruler should suffice. Maybe spring for a decent $10 tape measure if clearance is your main sticking point with bikes. Either seems a heck of a lot better option than guessing.
I mean...if you're the kind of person thats going to have an emotional breakdown during dirty kanza when you find out your bike doesnt have 55mm between chainstays....perhaps it would be sensible to, say, measure the chainstay width before you buy it? Maybe i'm just a bit nuts...
I mean...if you're the kind of person thats going to have an emotional breakdown during dirty kanza when you find out your bike doesnt have 55mm between chainstays....perhaps it would be sensible to, say, measure the chainstay width before you buy it? Maybe i'm just a bit nuts...
#40
Senior Member
#41
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: San Diego
Posts: 2,235
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 353 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 92 Times
in
67 Posts
You really don't see the issue with this? The point of having a max tire size in the specs is so as a consumer I don't have to go and put a ruler to a bike before I buy it. Point to me to one manufacturer that will list max tire size based on amount of chainstay clearance. Spoiler alert you won't find one. Trek advertised the checkpoint as a bike that can take up to a 45mm tire. The bike cannot take a 45mm tire at all. It can't even take a 40mm tire unless you use one single very specific tire.
#42
Senior Member
A bike is advertised in the specifications as being able to use up to an xx size tire. Customer buys said bike because of this. Couple months down the line customer is ready to put on the tires which the specifications said it could take at time of purchase. Customer finds out that the bike cannot actually take that tire size. They call the company and ask what's going on, the company decides to change the specifications and tells them that bike actually can't take that tire but really a tire size 10mm narrower unless they use a very specific tire and even then it's still not the original max size tire.
You really don't see the issue with this? The point of having a max tire size in the specs is so as a consumer I don't have to go and put a ruler to a bike before I buy it. Point to me to one manufacturer that will list max tire size based on amount of chainstay clearance. Spoiler alert you won't find one. Trek advertised the checkpoint as a bike that can take up to a 45mm tire. The bike cannot take a 45mm tire at all. It can't even take a 40mm tire unless you use one single very specific tire.
You really don't see the issue with this? The point of having a max tire size in the specs is so as a consumer I don't have to go and put a ruler to a bike before I buy it. Point to me to one manufacturer that will list max tire size based on amount of chainstay clearance. Spoiler alert you won't find one. Trek advertised the checkpoint as a bike that can take up to a 45mm tire. The bike cannot take a 45mm tire at all. It can't even take a 40mm tire unless you use one single very specific tire.
And...if you don't want to bother with measuring between chainstays.....then you really shouldn't be complaining when you find out you don't have the amount of space in there you thought you might have, except you didn't measure, and nobody ever actually even TOLD you how much was iin there.
Further...I just really don't believe for a second that a Checkpoint can't get a 40mm tire in there. (I find claims that it won't fit a 45mm tire a bit dubious as well...but seeing as how I don't have one, I won't comment...). I have a Focus Mares cyclocross bike. I've got a 40mm tire in the back right now, with PLENTY of room to spare. 45mm should go in without issue. I just really don't believe a Checkpoint has less room than my bike...
Last edited by Abe_Froman; 02-20-19 at 01:53 PM.
#43
Chases Dogs for Sport
Thread Starter
And the latest Trek spec is . . . 40mm but ONLY with a Bontrager tire IF you still have 4mm of clearance with that tire. Originally, these bikes didn't come with Bontrager tires, but now they do. If a Bontrager tire were a legitimate option, I would wonder how wide they measure, but they're not.
Bottom line: Not all gravel bikes have clearance for 45mm wide tires. If you need it for the gravel you do (not everyone does), you need something other than a Checkpoint. If you want to sneak up on 40mm wide, you need to take your tape measure and/or a set of mounted tires to your Trek dealer to see if the bike works for you. (I bought based on Trek's claim that it had plenty of room for 45mm tires, plus mud. That claim turned out to be false. Buyer beware.)
Bottom line: Not all gravel bikes have clearance for 45mm wide tires. If you need it for the gravel you do (not everyone does), you need something other than a Checkpoint. If you want to sneak up on 40mm wide, you need to take your tape measure and/or a set of mounted tires to your Trek dealer to see if the bike works for you. (I bought based on Trek's claim that it had plenty of room for 45mm tires, plus mud. That claim turned out to be false. Buyer beware.)
#44
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 13,444
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4232 Post(s)
Liked 2,947 Times
in
1,806 Posts
You seem to have a bit of a disconnect here. A mm is a mm. It doesn't change based on Treks definition of how much extra space then think a tire should have. If ONE 45mm tire will fit in between the chainstays, every single 45mm tire on the planet will fit in between the chainstays. If it doesn't fit, it's not a 45mm tire. This isn't rocket science..
#45
- Soli Deo Gloria -
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Northwest Georgia
Posts: 14,779
Bikes: 2018 Rodriguez Custom Fixed Gear, 2017 Niner RLT 9 RDO, 2015 Bianchi Pista, 2002 Fuji Robaix
Mentioned: 235 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6844 Post(s)
Liked 736 Times
in
469 Posts
Almost every manufacturer gives at least an estimate of tire clearance.
It is difficult to believe that Trek doesn't know how much tire clearance the bike has. Trek knows exactly what they are doing and changing the spec repeatedly is dishonest.
Expressing frustration over it isn't a "bizarre gripe." Tire clearance is a major factor in choosing to buy one bike over another and many buy bikes online without seeing them first. We have to be able to trust the manufacturer's specs.
For the cost of bikes today, I expect better. Shame on Trek. This is another in a long list of reasons why I will never own a Trek or Bontrager product.
-Tim-
It is difficult to believe that Trek doesn't know how much tire clearance the bike has. Trek knows exactly what they are doing and changing the spec repeatedly is dishonest.
Expressing frustration over it isn't a "bizarre gripe." Tire clearance is a major factor in choosing to buy one bike over another and many buy bikes online without seeing them first. We have to be able to trust the manufacturer's specs.
For the cost of bikes today, I expect better. Shame on Trek. This is another in a long list of reasons why I will never own a Trek or Bontrager product.
-Tim-
#46
Senior Member
Almost every manufacturer gives at least an estimate of tire clearance.
It is difficult to believe that Trek doesn't know how much tire clearance the bike has. Trek knows exactly what they are doing and changing the spec repeatedly is dishonest.
Expressing frustration over it isn't a "bizarre gripe." Tire clearance is a major factor in choosing to buy one bike over another and many buy bikes online without seeing them first. We have to be able to trust the manufacturer's specs.
For the cost of bikes today, I expect better. Shame on Trek. This is another in a long list of reasons why I will never own a Trek or Bontrager product.
-Tim-
It is difficult to believe that Trek doesn't know how much tire clearance the bike has. Trek knows exactly what they are doing and changing the spec repeatedly is dishonest.
Expressing frustration over it isn't a "bizarre gripe." Tire clearance is a major factor in choosing to buy one bike over another and many buy bikes online without seeing them first. We have to be able to trust the manufacturer's specs.
For the cost of bikes today, I expect better. Shame on Trek. This is another in a long list of reasons why I will never own a Trek or Bontrager product.
-Tim-
I have yet to see a manufacturer actually list the specification related to tire clearance. Specifications in this area would look like "Smallest lateral distance from centerline of bike to nearest obstruction 350mm away from hub is 25mm. Shortest radial distance from center of hub to nearest obstruction: 800mm."
Instead, what you are looking at, and complaining about, is one particular manufacturers recommendation of how much clearance you should have in between a tire and the frame. Which will vary WILDLY,, and not really indicative of how much space the bike has relative to other bikes.
#47
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Stillwater, OK
Posts: 7,827
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1872 Post(s)
Liked 692 Times
in
468 Posts
I have yet to see a manufacturer actually list the specification related to tire clearance. Specifications in this area would look like "Smallest lateral distance from centerline of bike to nearest obstruction 350mm away from hub is 25mm. Shortest radial distance from center of hub to nearest obstruction: 800mm."
Instead, what you are looking at, and complaining about, is one particular manufacturers recommendation of how much clearance you should have in between a tire and the frame. Which will vary WILDLY,, and not really indicative of how much space the bike has relative to other bikes.
__________________
2014 Cannondale SuperSix EVO 2
2019 Salsa Warbird
2014 Cannondale SuperSix EVO 2
2019 Salsa Warbird
Last edited by shoota; 02-27-19 at 02:42 PM.
#48
Chases Dogs for Sport
Thread Starter
Except it IS a bizarre gripe.
I have yet to see a manufacturer actually list the specification related to tire clearance. Specifications in this area would look like "Smallest lateral distance from centerline of bike to nearest obstruction 350mm away from hub is 25mm. Shortest radial distance from center of hub to nearest obstruction: 800mm."
Instead, what you are looking at, and complaining about, is one particular manufacturers recommendation of how much clearance you should have in between a tire and the frame. Which will vary WILDLY,, and not really indicative of how much space the bike has relative to other bikes.
I have yet to see a manufacturer actually list the specification related to tire clearance. Specifications in this area would look like "Smallest lateral distance from centerline of bike to nearest obstruction 350mm away from hub is 25mm. Shortest radial distance from center of hub to nearest obstruction: 800mm."
Instead, what you are looking at, and complaining about, is one particular manufacturers recommendation of how much clearance you should have in between a tire and the frame. Which will vary WILDLY,, and not really indicative of how much space the bike has relative to other bikes.
#49
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Stillwater, OK
Posts: 7,827
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1872 Post(s)
Liked 692 Times
in
468 Posts
Is what he said incorrect though? There is no "standard" for declaring max tire width, at least not that I know of. Heck, even tire manufacturers can't get their own tires labeled correctly. How is a frame manufacturer supposed to be able to??
__________________
2014 Cannondale SuperSix EVO 2
2019 Salsa Warbird
2014 Cannondale SuperSix EVO 2
2019 Salsa Warbird
#50
Senior Member
I mean, you do understand there is a difference between a manufacturer recommendation and an actual measurement taken with a measuring instrument, right?
45mm is 45mm. There is no wiggle room if we're talking about an actual distance.
A marketing statement saying "We recommend 45c tires" could mean practically anything.