7up

This was done with cars in the 80’s.It was stated that the boxy look looked too manly.Manufacturers then switched up the look to more flowing round body lines.Those were the years GM cars started looking more alike.I still can not for the life of me pick out woman’s from men’s saddles and the top bars used to be the only giveaway to what sex the bike was for.

Kent T

And I see the Mixte, as a universal, easily accessible frame design for all. My next bike most likely will be a Mixte for functional reasons. Do agree with earlier commentary about Specialized dropping the smaller frame sizes. Shorter people and people with unusual built ride and need bikes too. I agree with the statement, that Specialized needs to offer a bike model or two in smaller sizes, in colors which are universally liked by men and women, as a practical alternative.

Korina

I don't see 48 as 'very small', as I'm 5' 4", average height for a woman, and I ride ~48. If you're going by men's sizes, then yes, it is pretty small. That's what I like about Surly bikes; all their smaller frames are designed for smaller wheels, usually 650b. And yes, my brake levers are pretty far out, but I plan on wearing them out before swapping for something smaller.

My refurbished old skool steel mtb has 26" wheels, and it's a flippin' revelation. My hybrid with 700c wheels fits fine, but the mtb feels proportional, and is a delight to ride. Fortunately I had it set up as a road bike with big supple cruiser tires, so I rarely have to get off. What surprises me is that I'm just as fast as on my hybrid. It's also lighter, '90s steel vs. modern aluminum. Go figure.

And I feel ya about women's cycling clothes; I prefer plain hi viz as patterns tend to act like camouflage to break up your outline. I discovered that men's tech tees, while not stylish, work great at a fraction of the cost.

StanSeven

Ok, several posts were deleted as off topic. Miata’s are a long stretch on what this thread is about. Plus it drifted towards insults.

Thanks in advance for getting it back back in line.

Stan

ColonelSanders

Question : What kind of bike do you have?


Man : It is a Specialized Roubaix with the frame being made from FACT11R carbon.


Woman : A blue bike.

livedarklions

Can we have a "dislike" button now?

DrIsotope

For me, the sexism is slightly less offensive than someone (of any gender) who would tell me what kind of carbon their bike is made of.

While she might not have all of the minutiae, my wife absolutely knows the make and model of her bike, the sizing, the gearing, etc. Perhaps the difference between an enthusiast and a participant.

livedarklions

LOL.

I hadn't thought of it that way--maybe this was actually a "men are snobby jerks" post. I can take personal offense then.

Trsnrtr

Same with my wife. She's an accomplished cyclist of 37 years, rides thousands of miles a year, ex Cat 3 racer, ex USPRO official, and she definitely knows what she wants to ride and what bike to buy.

For the record, she's currently riding a Specialized Amira.

livedarklions

Would all of New England count as an "enclave"? Because I see lots of women riders on the roads, and have biked in all of the NE states.

And what makes you think MUP-riding women don't buy lots of bikes? Silly point.

livedarklions

I thought it was rather ironic that the "blue one" joke appeared in a thread where several women posted knowledgeable information about their bikes and their buying process.

ColonelSanders

It stands to reason that the women in this thread would be a lot more serious about their cycling than most women who are recreational cyclists.


Last year I was conversing with a female friend online and she told me how she had bought a new bike and when I asked her what kind of bike it was, she told me that it was a "Yellow one".


When I pressed further, she still couldn't tell me what the model was and only when she sent me a picture of it, was I able to determine it was a Kona Coco and then I was able to look up the specs for it.

livedarklions

It stands to reason that she had approximately the same knowledge of bikes as the average man.

I hate to break it to you but most men who are "recreational cyclists" wouldn't know the difference between a carbon fork and a plastic spoon. Congratulations on basing your stereotype on one conversation.

ColonelSanders

It wasn't based on one conversation.


Keep denying reality, I'm sure that will work out real well for you in the long run.

livedarklions

What reality am I denying? Do you really think men can generally identify types of carbon? Hilarious.

ColonelSanders

Yeah, men can ascertain carbon types by smell alone.


The point behind my posts were to say in a roundabout way, that some products should not be marketed to men and women in the same way, if you want maximum success.


I believe bikes to be such a product.

livedarklions

If that's the point you were making, you should probably choose a different roundabout. You sounded like "that uncle" when he's had a few at the family gathering.

That's a really superficial analysis, and misses a lot. Specialized isn't giving up on marketing to women, they just aren't going to have separate product lines for them. Much advertising for products that aren't differentiated by sex is targeted to appeal to one sex or the other, so that's nothing unusual. But I think you and the "difference" you pointed to in your joke are just wrong about how the advertising should vary.

In case you don't realize it, the vast majority of new bikes sold only cost a few hundred dollars or less. These aren't generally being marketed to people knowledgeable about bikes, male or female. To the extent there is marketing for these, it will say something like "blah, blah, blah, sturdy lightweight aluminum frame, blah blah blah Shimano parts."

Advertising for bicycles is almost all marketing higher priced bicycles. "Recreational cyclists" who don't know more about bikes than color generally don't buy higher priced bikes, and the more expensive the bike is, the truer that statement is likely to be. People who are willing to spend $1000 or more on bicycles is a small minority of the population, male or female. You can lose sight of that hanging out on this forum and with other bicyclists. If you try to market to such people of either gender by deemphasizing tech specs and promoting things like color, your advertising is bound to fail.

NomarsGirl

There are plenty of men who are recreational cyclists who also could not tell you much about their bikes beyond the color. Some people take their cycling seriously and do their homework to find the best bike for them that they can afford. Others just pick up a Wally World bike and ride. And some are in between. They buy from the LBS, but still don't really know much other than whatever the sales person emphasized. For example, my husband knows he has disk brakes. He couldn't tell you whether they are hydraulic or mechanical, what chainrings and cassettes he has or how wide his tires are. He knows he has presta valves (but can't remember that name) only because we had to buy a new pump.

livedarklions

I bought my son a Specialized Roll Sport. He rides it happily around campus and it is his go-to transportation. I would bet money he couldn't tell me what kind of derailleurs are on there without googling it or peeking at the bike. I don't think he's atypical of the average light commuter in this regard.

Korina

I'm kind of in-between; I know what brands my bikes are and what they're best at, but if you start talking gear ratios and cassettes my eyes glaze over and I blurt out 'Make it go!' Not that this has ever happened every time the husbeast and I start talking upgrades for my bikes.

livedarklions

Gear ratios and cassettes I can talk about forever, but if you get to "stiffness", "flexibility" and bottom bracket height, I want to puncture my eardrums and never hear another word.

PepeM

KraneXL

Funny should mention math. It reminds me of the little story related to the male/female controversy. Like a lot of students, math was my most feared subject. When I took it I knew it was going to be difficult so I resolve to go to the lab everyday if I had to. When I'd go there was typically several tutors available. I remember this one instance where I had a problem and needed help to solve it.

The tutor looked at the problem then solve it for me while rapidly speeding through the steps (which took about 2 minutes) and sent me on my way. Meanwhile, the girl from another table asked him for help with a problem and got a slow paced step-by-step explanation of how to solve the problem. When she still looked bewildered, he went over the steps a second time and didn't leave her table until she gave him the OK that she completely understood. He must have spent a good 20 minutes on that one problem.

Women (for obvious reasons) get hands on care whether they ask for it or not. In this lab, there were no female tutors ever, even though women outnumber males in college. The only female working in the math lab was the receptionist who wasn't even a math major.

livedarklions

OMFG! My sister is a full professor in math ed. at a good university. She can give you story after story about STEM professors who were clearly uncomfortable working with women when she was a grad student, and would try to avoid it like the plague.

Things may or may not be turning around these days, but historically, women in the STEM fields have had to continually face discrimination and discouragement from men who have stereotyped them as inherently "less capable."

Siu Blue Wind

Maybe we should move this to another part of the forum?