TuckertonRR

Ok, so you're going to like Poukeepsie or one of those way-out places....montly passes don't cost nearly that much here in Philly....

Roody

Well, I guess if you can't afford the extra $141 a month. But I doubt if that is really the case, since you managed to pay much more for that expensive lease.

So far everything you say is a rationale for car culture, which you seem to buy hook line and sinker. You have also gone out of your way to justify your personal use of of a single occupant vehicle to drive a few miles in an area that is extremely congested and polluted, bu which also offers excellent cycling and public transport.

Can you really give one intelligent reason why an able bodied person living in your area would need to drive a car into Manhattan every day, especially with only one occupant?

I really doubt if you have a good excuse, but I hope you try to find one logical reason...

So far, the only reason you have given for driving is that it saves you (allegedly) that extra $141 a month. Is your health, the livability of the city and the health of the planet worth a certain sum under $141? Or are we really talking about your convenience and leisure?

adgrant

Of course I could afford the extra $141 a month, I am just not willing to pay it right now. I choose to commute in the cheapest and most convenient way possible (it is more convenient) because that is the rational thing to do. Cycling is not an option for my current commute, however once the car is gone I will be taking public transport (which is no healthier than driving BTW).

I have no idea why an able bodied person would chose to drive a car into Manhattan every day. That would be nuts given the traffic. I don't drive a car into Manhattan, I live in Manhattan and drive out to the burbs. I would love to car pool but that would at a minimum require me to get out of bed an hour earlier.

BTW I have done the combined bike/train commute before while living car free but not in the U.S.

adgrant

Actually no, that is the monthly cost for Stamford, CT slightly less than an hour away from Grand Central. For some reason the Connecticut State government in Hartford, does not like to fund or invest in public transport for Fairfield County. Very short sighted of them considering how congested CT highways are. The trains are seriously overcrowded, old and break down quite a bit.

Getting back to the original point of the thread, I think that the only way to make a significant dent in the number of cars used to commute is to significantly increase gasoline taxes (by say $2 a gallon) and funnel the money into public transport. There is a danger though that we could end up like the UK where gas is $6.70 a gallon and train tickets cost $40 for a less than two hour trip to London.

TuckertonRR

have no idea why an able bodied person would chose to drive a car into Manhattan every day. That would be nuts given the traffic. I don't drive a car into Manhattan, I live in Manhattan and drive out to the burbs. I would love to car pool but that would at a minimum require me to get out of bed an hour earlier.

But...you ARE driving into Manhattan every day!!! Insurance & parking a car alone in Manhattan must eat up a TON of money!! That's one main reason people CHOOSE to live in NYC...no need for a car.

adgrant

Well yes technically you are correct. However, since I am driving in the reverse direction, it is a completely different commute. I am not sitting in traffic. There is the odd bottleneck but I can drive at 55mph-65mph most of the way. I could actually drive faster but I chose not to.

Insurance and parking expenses are sunk costs though insurance would drop slightly if I wasn't commuting (but not by much). Insurance is not as much as we used to pay in the burbs because we have already got rid of one car. In fact having been used to paying for two cars, keeping one in the city doesn't seem that expensive but I will not be replacing it when the lease is up.

adgrant

This should amuse everyone:

(from CNN)

"How 'Extreme Savers' save on gas"

'When settling down in Florida, the couple found a home about 1 mile from their place of work, with shops located between the two. The close proximity is "one of the reasons we chose this place to live."

The Parkers own a Nissan Xterra full sized SUV but with a one mile commute, gas costs them only $40 every two weeks. The cost is, by the Extreme Saver's own admission, "just lost in the noise...It doesn't even phase us."'

How can anyone (the Parkers or CNN) thing that driving an SUV (or any car) for a one mile commute is saving gas is beyond me. This country really is doomed.

DogBoy

Therin lies the problem. If I have a boat and a family I need to be able to tow the boat and get the family to the lake. I only do this a few times a year, but enough that renting something to do it is a hassle. I can just purchase an SUV (or 4-door pickup in my case) as my vehicle and whenever I want to do any of those things I'm good to go. Yes its expensive and wasteful to commute to work by yourself in an SUV (or any motorized vehicle), but MANY people find it worthwile to pay the gas penalty for the ease of shifting from personal hauler to family hauler to toy hauler. I have no problem with that. I DO have a problem with those same people complaining about the high cost of gas.

Just remember you don't really know anything about the person behind the wheel. I drive a pickup truck to work by myself occasionally but most days I cycle. In terms of gas usage I use MUCH less than my wife does with daily commute in her sedan (30ish mpg). Do you begrudge me my choice in vehicle? Why are you trying to force your values on everyone else?

Artkansas 

Brad M

I think they meant to highlight the fact that they bought a house close to work. With everything supposedly within a mile of their home, $20 per week is still too much.

0_emissions :=)

how come they show the cyclist with no helmet, on the worst riding day of the year? kudos for going at it in the snow tho...

attercoppe

Or, maybe we could get people to not, for instance, live in Manhattan and drive to FRICKIN CONNECTICUT and back every day!

adgrant

Which was great, but a mile from work is a 15 minute or less walk.

adgrant

That would require cheaper public transport or more expensive gas. Why should I pay 50% more for a less flexible schedule and a standing room only commute. I would like to take the train on Fridays to avoid weekend traffic but public transport is even more expensive if I just wanted to take it a few times a week (around $25 a day round trip).

The other advantage to me of driving is I can drop by places like Costco on the way home and get to my dentist or our storage unit.

You should be happy that we are only using one car instead of two.

TuckertonRR

https://mta.info/mnr/html/planning/sc...ewHaven_WD.pdf

Round trip to Waterbury CT is $31.36 Peak...$108.30 for a weekly pass.

The schedule looks pretty good to me, and yes, the prices are a bit steep, but it is New York pricing...and in the end, you'll save $$ by not driving so much....plus you can get a nap on the train!

adgrant

I am not commuting to Waterbury, CT (fortunately). However, Peak round trip between Stamford and New York is $24.50 even though it is less than half the distance. I assume the CT Dept of Transport wishes to extract as much money as possible from residents of the much wealthier towns of Fairfield County. Reverse commuters pay a little less on a round trip basis because the trip back to the city is off-peak but the trip from the city is not. The round trip for a reverse commuter is $21.50. However, to that must be added the cost of the subway which is $4 for a total of $21.50. Weekly fare would be $84 and monthly would be $264. There is no reverse commuting discount for weekly and monthly fares. Monthly subway is $76.

I use less than 3 gallons of gas for the round trip by car and pay a $1 toll. The round trip by car is therefore costing me less than $10 a day. Which is less than half the cost of a round trip by public transport and since I make less than 20 round trips a month about two thirds of what it would cost if I didn't drive at all and had a monthly ticket. So in the end I will not save any money by not driving so much, instead it would be costing me money. Even if I owned on of those huge SUVs, the commute would probably only cost me $15 a day. I wouldn't be getting much sleep on the train either. Hard to sleep in a train that is standing room only.

Cars are expensive to own but if you own one, not driving it really doesn't save you money because gas is still so cheap in this country. This is probably why there are so many people commuting by car. In fact gas is so cheap, some people will actually use a huge SUV to commute 1.5 miles to work and pat themselves on the back for being frugal. OTOH at last SUV sales are plunging (Ford Explorer down 42%) and the used value of my AWD station wagon has not really changed in a few months. The traffic seems lighter too (I may just be imagining that though).

wsexson

+1

wsexson

They live a mile from work and spend $80 a month on gasoline?

wsexson

They are forcing their values on everyone else through pollution, traffic congestion, and taking up too much room in parking lots.

adgrant

And they (and CNN) think they are "Extreme Savers".

Roody

You just don't get it, do you?

adgrant

What exactly don't I get?

You seem to be the one having trouble grasping reality which is that 90% of commuter cars have single occupants because gas is too cheap, public transport too expensive and the roads not congested enough.

TuckertonRR

Don't think he does. He's only taking into account the direct, 'marginal cost' of operating a car. He's not accounting for the 'capital', 'sunk' or 'environmental' costs of driving those kinds of miles every day.

BTW, adgrant, *are* you talking of taking the New Haven line to CT? or the other branch that goes to CT? I find it hard to belive the train is SRO (standing room only) on a reverse-commute to CT from GCT.

TuckertonRR

Actually, he is correct in this regard. Gas is still *too* cheap, transport *is* too expensive ..
Why?
-Not enough taxes on gas, and not enough Federal & State Support for good transit.

adgrant

You are correct. I am not taking the sunk cost into account because the sunk costs are already sunk. If I was planning to buy a car specifically to commute with then I would of course take all costs into account. It could possibly be argued that in any two car family, the second car is automatically a commuter car but this is an only car. The car is well under its mileage allowance because last year I lived within walking distance of GCT and took the train.

I am not taking any 'environmental' costs into account since they cannot be quantified. Enviromental costs of car use should be reflected in gas taxes as they are in Western Europe.

Yes I am talking about the New Haven line which is the only line into CT. All the other branches are off this line and most require you to change trains at a station on the New Haven line. You may find this hard to believe During rush hour these trains are pretty full in both directions but it is normally possible to find a seat in the morning. A surprisingly large number of people reverse commute into CT from Manhattan or other parts of the City. In the evening the reverse commute crowd aren't the only people on the train particularly on Thursdays and Fridays. You are also forgetting that part of my commute is on the Subway and the 4/5/6 line which feeds GCT and 125th St is the most crowded subway line in the city (sometimes it can be hard to even get in the subway car).

Since Manhattan has a population of 1.5 million in an area of about 24 square miles (Philadelphia has about the same number of people in an area of about 143 square miles) and only one subway line on the eastside, a little overcrowding is to be expected.