hybridbkrdr

Lately, I've gone through a whole list of manufacturer's web sites and am really surprised how prices have shot up over the years. Yet, there seems to be a gap between Claris-level road bikes and department store bicycles. So, if there was a Shimano level between Claris and Tourney, let's say the equivalent of Altus, would you buy it as a beginner? I mean to save money it would have alloy forks instead of carbon and mini-V brakes instead of disc brakes (not sure why they often use caliper instead of mini-V since most say they prefer mini-V brakes). Still with STI shifters but maybe 1x8 drivetrain as well as 2x8 (with 35c max tires and chainguard).

musicmaster

There isn't a need for anything between Tourney and Claris. Tourney is 7 speed, Claris is 8 speed. I just purchased a backup bike with the Tourney setup. Works great for the price I paid and the only thing I really hate is the stock brake pads. The bike cost around $300. I'm not sure how much cheaper you're going to get than that.

Bah Humbug

I think the problem is most people will either compare this hypothetical bike against a dept store bike and consider it "expensive", or compare it against their cyclist friends' road bikes and consider it too lowly compared to buying something lightly used.

Who prefers mini-V to calipers?

buffalo4life

Claris works great. When I started riding in 2012 I bouht a used Trek1.1 with Claris. Had I gone with a no name brand I could have gone brand new for about 400 dollars. I live in a flat area and 8 speeds are enough but I wouldn't want to go to 7 speed to save 50 bucks. Now that I'm committed to cycling I ride a 105 equipped bike.
Drivetrain components are only part of a bike though, you need decent wheels and touch points, so skimping on a tourney groupo begs the question have all the other components been downgraded as well.
Being kinda cheap the first bike I got my wife was tourney and she probably put 1000 miles on over 4 years before we upgraded her to an alloy bike with less upright geometry and a 9 speed setup. The 7 speeds worked fine for her but she is a decidedly casual rider.
To summarize all Shimano groupset work well but I wouldn't go below Claris for a road bike but certainly would go tourney for a hybrid or a new rider on a budget. If you really want a nice bike cheap get a fixie or single speed.

fietsbob

Snobbish question, Are You going to pick up the difference if that is all your customer can afford..

exmechanic89

For the past 4 mos or so I've been working as a bike tech for a large sports retailer that sells bikes, and I've been amazed how well even the lowest quality Shimano stuff shifts. even on triples. So yes I would not have any issue recommending sub Claris equipped bikes.

Timo 2.0

Had to google to find what Claris is.

mstateglfr 

I have some microshift 7sp shifters on an old road bike that is mated to a short lived group called 'Shimano Sport'. It also has single pivot brakes.

It is for sure lower than new claris in terms of tech.
So yeah, im good with riding sub-claris.

Sy Reene

In reality, how much more to assemble a shifting mechanism from machined plastic and metal parts that works well, vs to assemble the same from machined plastic and metal parts that don't shift well. Most differences are solely from planned marketing differentiation practices. If you're a smart company, would you put your brand name on a product that will tick off entrants into a sport?

Kontact 

No, I would buy a used bike. There's little reason to buy "entry level" bikes.

musicmaster

Plenty of reasons. You check out Craig's List recently? In Denver, there's loads of people trying to sell 10 year old road bikes for only $200-250 less than they paid 10 years ago. By the time you replace the tubes, tires, chain, cables, brake pads etc, you're looking at only a $100-125 difference between used and new. Given you don't know the condition of everything else, a new bike is easily worth the difference.

Kontact 

Are they selling at those prices? I just bought a Lemond with 105 for $100.

AlmostTrick

How many more of these deals are out there?

I get tired of looking at the ridiculous prices on CL. Then a few weeks later I go back only to find more of the same. Sure, eventually one can find a great deal if given enough time...

Then too, some prefer a new, mint condition bike with a lesser group set, over a well worn one with a higher level.

Bah Humbug

It's hard to say, but it does mean there's a lack of 105 Lemonds for $100. That's what I recall from living in Boulder, and it's about the same in Austin: a lot of used bikes (especially higher-end ones) are asking silly prices. Deals like yours are rare, but there are reasonable ones out there if you look with some patience. It's no different from used cars, really, where a lot of people think their average car is worth +++ price, and then they add the price of all the service done in the last two years on top of that.

Bonzo Banana

Tourney normally means a low end freewheel with a rear axle much easier to bend. The threads on the freewheel and rear hub aren't always completely parallel so most of the time you end up with freewheel wobble which can effect gear shifting and make adjustment more critical. Tourney's are often semi-plastic derailleurs at the back with fairly weak springs. Most of the time they work ok but when the dirt gets on them or the weather is bad etc they play up. Tourney is more about light riders both in weight and frequency of use and better for fair weather cyclists only.

I wouldn't pay reasonable money for such a bike but if one came my way super cheap I might buy it and replace the rear wheel with a freehub based wheel with 7 speed cassette to improve strength, shifting and reliability. You have to be careful though Tourney is a sign of a compromised bike for sure and where else on the bike is below par?

Certainly not against buying cheap entry level bikes but normally one step up from minimum spec is where I'd start.

Kontact 

I don't think you'll find a lot of $100 awesome bikes. And you will see a lot of $2500 bikes listed for $2000. But I don't agree that the way to go in finding a deal is a bike below Claris. You can always find a '90s 8 speed bike for $300-400 on CL or Ebay. You can buy a 2 or 3 year old brand new 105 or Ultegra bike closeout for less than $1500, like a Kestrel. I don't know what sweet spot the OP is thinking about, but there are a ton of really high quality used and new bikes out there for cheap if you can bring yourself to buy something other than a Specialized or Trek and you're not hung up on how many cogs are on the cassette.

This thread just seems to posit a problem I haven't really observed.

musicmaster

No idea if they sell or not at those prices. When I was looking for a backup bike a few weeks back, I offered $200-250 on probably 5 different bikes, all of late 2000's vintage that had Sora level components or lower. No one would budge. One even claimed a LBS "valued" their bike at $400.

Not saying there aren't deals to be had, but I get that if someone wants a bike, they don't want to be stalking CL for a month or two to find something that isn't overpriced and in their size.

Kontact 

I doubt you could buy this fictional "sub-Claris" bike for $250, either.


Generally, I find that a lot of discussion about geometry, prices, fitting and other mathematical issues on this board take place without any actual numbers being involved. What is the target price of the cheaper-than-Claris bike? What is an acceptable alternative to a new bike? Would you ride a Dura Ace bike that you got for $400, even if it meant down tube shifters? Would you buy an Exage equipped bike that sold new in 1990 for $350 if it was selling for $200?


Maybe the disconnect is this idea that Shimano offers STI at many price points, so all they have to do is wave their wand and a bike that is priced like a Ross but feels like Madone is possible. Personally, I don't think the economics of bike manufacturing work that way - there is such a thing as "too cheap" where the compromises required make the bike a feature laden pile of junk.


Maybe we ought to be bringing some perspective by searching CL and citing examples.

musicmaster

Pretty close

https://www.randombikeparts.com/prod...x-7s-black-new

$283 and they often have 10% off, making it $255.

https://www.amazon.com/Vilano-Shadow...ds=tourney+sti
$330

https://www.amazon.com/Vilano-Shadow...ds=tourney+sti
$320 - I actually bought this one from Amazon Warehouse Deals a week back for $137 shipped to my door.

Would I ever use it as a primary bike? No. The gear ratios with 14 speeds only left me with 11 unique speeds with decently large gaps in the upper teens (at 90RPM cadence). But the Tourney shifters work well for what it is and even at full retail of $320, it's at least a bike - something you won't get at an LBS.

Kontact 

Wasn't the point of the thread that the parts would be above Tourney and below Claris?

WalksOn2Wheels

I'm a snob, so it's 105 and above or nothing. BUT, if I were on an extreme budget, I would have to say nearly anything can be made to shift well with a proper build. Another post early on mentioned brakes being the weak point. I would agree with that and say new pads would usually do the trick, but some of the budget calipers are truly awful and would need replacing.

musicmaster

Title says "Would you buy a sub-Claris road bike?" That's Tourney

OP went on a rant about V brakes or whatever else. As the first person to reply, I already stated there was no reason for anything between Tourney or Claris to exist. Many Claris bikes are pretty much the same as Tourney bikes (for manufacturers that offer both), but with the 8 speed setup instead of 7 speed.

Kontact 

Sorry, I'm commenting on the OP, not some other thread.

musicmaster

Again, think. Most Claris bikes already have aluminum forks, basic caliper rim brakes etc. There's nothing left to remove.

https://www.specialized.com/us/en/allez/p/65227

https://www.giant-bicycles.com/us/contend-3

https://www.cannondale.com/en/USA/Bi...2-c799bb5b6032


OP also falsely thinks that Tourney road bikes are "department store bikes" -- Sorry, I've never seen a road bike at Walmart or Target with STI brifters. Ever.

Just because the OP doesn't understand the product segmentation, doesn't make him correct. The fact is that what he want is already out there - 8 speed setup is Claris, a more value oriented bike is Tourney. There's no room for anything in between, because the worst Claris bikes are the same as the best Tourney bikes with the difference being the groupset.

joejack951

Here ya go!

https://www.target.com/p/schwinn-men...k/-/A-52343002
https://www.target.com/p/giordano-me...d/-/A-13938494
https://www.target.com/p/schwinn-men...d/-/A-52341856
https://www.target.com/p/takara-700c...n/-/A-17130257

Similar bikes can be found at Walmart, too.