Lava

Jari owners, a question:

I just got done test riding a 54. I barely fit over the top tube, so yeah, the standover height on these things is on the extreme end of the spectrum. The fit felt good except for standing up out of the saddle. I felt like the back end was all over the place, with a twitchier feel than I'm used to, which included the saddle bangling against my thighs. I definitely wasn't throwing the bike around a ton.

Was this a function of the stack of the bike? Maybe the flared handlebars put my arms in a position I'm not used to such that it affected the handling? I'm curious if this is a part of the fit that can be adjusted, with narrower, less flared bars for instance, or if it was just a function of how my body fit to the bike.

koolerb

Yes, it's a pretty horizontal top tube compared to most bikes there days. Advantage is lots of room in the triangle for "stuff". Disadvantage, stand-over may be taller than what you're used to. If anything I think the chain-stay length is a little long on this bike. I've had it on some pretty fast, rough, twisty downhills and so far has has felt pretty stable. I did was swap the bars out for some non-flared drops. The flared bars twisted my wrists when I was in the drops, just felt weird. Saddle banging against thighs? I haven't noticed this, but, I have noticed my legs tapping the ends of the drops once in a wile out of the saddle. The fit is more compact, less stretched out, than a road bike. Could be you're experiencing the same thing but your riding position is a little more AFT than mine.

Lava

Gotcha, maybe it is the compactness of the frame combined with my particular riding position. I was surprised, since the chainstay length is longer than the Felt road bike I'm used to riding, so I was expecting a more stable ride if anything. Perhaps some of the other qualities of the bike combined to make it feel the way it did.

Thanks for your experience!

JayNYC

Well, 650x47 tires do fit on the bike, but there's not a ton of room. I can't shove 6 credit cards (each cc is 0.75mm, so 4mm total) between the tire and the frame without the tire getting pushed in a bit. But the credit cards are flat and the space is curved, so not sure that's a perfect test. Here are some pics…

First what the bike looks like with them on…


The view from below…


Chain side, with ruler…


Brake side…


Front fork has oodles of space…

Lava

Looks uber plush, love it!

Metieval

nice! how does it ride with the 650 compared to the 700?

JayNYC

Ask me that question on Friday (maybe). When I did the post above I hadn't ridden it at all. And as of now I've ridden it a whopping 1.14 miles on paved streets – just to go to the LBS and ask a question. I was hoping that the 700C and 650b wheelsets would be similar enough that I could swap them in and out without having to readjust the brakes and derailleur. I can do that with the front wheel, but the back wheel seems like it needs a fair amount of adjustment. The mechanic said I'd need to readjust every time I swapped. He said that was especially true when disk brakes are involved. So tonight I'll spend some time and see how far I can get on the adjustments .

So on my vast experience of 1.14 miles on pavement – it rides like a completely different bike. Oddly it almost seemed faster, but that's probably because I wasn't dressed for winter riding, didn't have fluids on me, etc.. The new wheels are ever so slightly lighter – 1584g front, 2014g rear (complete w/ sealant), compared to 1572g front and 2201g rear for the 700C wheeelset (complete w/ tubes and probably a little dirt). It was my first time doing tubeless and I probably put a bit more sealant in than I was supposed to, but just a little bit too much.

One odd thing I mentioned in another thread was that the Rampart Durable tire I put on the rear was only 6g heavier than the Rampart Light & Supple I put on the front when there's supposed to be a 40g difference between the two. The Light & Supple was 21g overweight and the Durable was 13g underweight. Go figure.

The eventual goal is to replace the 700x35 Clement X'Plor's that came with the bike with 700x28 IRC Formula Pro tubeless. That'll change things up yet again. And (hopefully) the difference between the 28s and the 47s will be even more substantial.

I'm hoping to do a ride tomorrow. I'll definitely do one on Saturday. So I'll know more after that.

Metieval

cool! thanks! bike looks better with the new wheels n tires.

tayguer

Hey JayNYC, what do those Teravails measure mounted on your rims? Horizons are right around 47-48 on Stan's Crest 23mm rims. I've thought about going to 48mm Gravel Kings SKs but have heard they run wide. Curiously, on the steel frame, I have about 5mm clearance at the chainstays with the Horizons. Might be due to smaller/narrower steel tubing.

Really love the steel version but it took quite a bit of effort and money getting it at a desirable spec/weight. Luckily I was working at Performance at the time. Here's a full pic of mine.

JayNYC

The Rampart Light & Supple in the front is 47mm, the Rampart Durable in the rear is 48mm. (Both @40psi – pics were taken ~55-60psi.)

So basically the 650x50mm that I saw stated somewhere last year is overstating it. 47 (non-knobby) is the safe max size IMHO.

JayNYC

I went on a 40 mile ride yesterday much of which was dirt/gravel. 650x47 was definitely nicer than skinnier tires, but ultimately it's just a progressive difference. On pavement I felt pretty fast and looking at my times on Strava I was mostly keeping pace with my times in the past (I wasn't really trying to be fast – just go at a comfortable pace, but that's how I usually ride). The big difference is when you roll over small obstacles (branches, rocks, rough pavement) then the 47mm tires (I had them at 40psi) helped quite a bit. They took some of the shock out (there was still a fair mount of roughness to the ride), but the bumps/roughness didn't seem to slow me down as much as they would with skinnier tires, and stability was better as weell. It's definitely a nicer ride with fatter tires.

Only frustration was, I knew my tires wouldn't be all that great in mud, but they pretty much sucked when I hit mud. And the ~4mm of clearance I had between the tire and the chainstays did turn out to be a small problem. The mud caked up in that area and I had to clean it out with a stick. It'll take a while to wear out these tires, but when that happens I might consider ones with a bit more tread. I had considered going with Elwoods, now I'm not sure if they would have been the better choice. But on dry pavement or dry dirt/gravel, the Ramparts are completely fine.

Metieval

ouch on the mud...I'd rather ride snow on my 25c than mud on anything (including 4 wheels)

so part of why I was asking... I am debating between the Giant revolt advanced Carbon with a bit more rake. vs Niner RLT steel. with a steeper head angle. I want to run 650

tayguer

I've run thru deep mud a few times with the Jari and it does suck. But I think one would really have to look at a whole different kind of bike to get away from that, which IMO has its own drawbacks. Check out the Breezer Radar, Marin Four Corners, or Specialized AWOL. All these bikes have comparatively long top tubes, higher trail numbers, and longer wheelbases to the point that it's very noticeable while riding to me.

I know a guy who rides a Niner RLT and is running Horizons. Very nice bike but he doesn't has an excessive amount of clearance either. Also, remember more rake means less trail. The higher the trail, the more stable the bike supposedly is. The Fyxation fork I put on my Jari had less rake than the original, resulting in more trail, which resulted in a bit slower handling.

clasher

I'm really interested in the carbon version that is in the works... there's only a few reviews and pictures floating around the net right now but hopefully they release it soon.

TheRef

The problem is that with Performance bikes gone now, there is no places near me that carry Fuji. ASI (ASE) had alienated most of the independent LBS by undercutting them in price with Performance.
I'm about to receive my 2018 bonus and I was set on the JARI but couldn't pull the trigger while performance was still around. I've been calling many placed that are supposed still carrying Fujis just to hear they no longer carry them and don't plan to in the near future.

I guess I'll look into the Cannondale Topstone if I can't find a Jari locally.

koolerb

OK, I think the downside of this bike compared to some other is rear tire clearance. I think my 700C, 40mm Ramblers stretched a little since I aired them up for the first time and I've got very little clearance. Maybe 4mm on either side. From the pics looks like you might be a little better off with 650B's. People wanting to run wide tires may want to look elsewhere.

JayNYC

Odd that you'd be having problems with 700x40s. If anything I'd say the chainstays are shaped to accommodate 700C more than 650b. Where I'm tight on my 650x47s is in the sidewall area. There's more space up by the tread. So I would have expected no width problems with a 700C tire – especially a 40mm tire.

I just had a puncture I couldn't fix in my rear tire, so I needed to buy a new tire. My problem was that I barely fit the 650x47 Teravail Rampart in there. And the reviews of the other 47mm tires (w/ black sidewalls) say they measure out at 48-50mm. I seriously considered getting a Terrene Elwood which are "just" 48mm on the sidewalls, but in the end I ordered another Rampart. Maybe I'll try Elwoods next time…