imi

Hi, I have recently bought a new Bianchi Volpe (2017 cantilever brakes model) as a replacement for my Bob Jackson World Tour which got trashed on tour in France last autumn. Anyway, it’s actually my first brifters bike: Tiagra BR-CX50 STI. Previously I have had Avid Single Digit 7 V-brakes with Tektro RL 520 brake levers.

I am really disappointed with the braking power from the hoods. I’d say I have average sized hands and good grip strength. I’ve tried shortening the lever reach (with the little screw under the hoods) and slackening the wire, which was a slight improvement, but no way can I achieve anything close to the stopping power of my old set-up. I’ve been using Kool Stop brake pads for years, but the Shimano Ultegra road pads on the cantilever brakes can’t be making such a difference, can they?

Most of the time you’re just “slowing down”, but sometimes there’s a need to stop quickly or have sufficient braking on steep downhills fully loaded in the rain. I simply wouldn’t trust these brakes on tour.
I’m commuting on them now, but it ain’t good! I’m even considering going back to bar-end shifters and v-brakes, but would have to buy all new components.

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

andrewclaus

Is the yoke angle set up correctly? See Sheldon Brown's article if you're not familiar with it. If that's what you meant by "slackening the wire," never mind.

Are the brakes brand new? If it's a 2017 model, maybe the pads have some hardening, whether used or not. Where was it stored? Chemicals, UV light, and time will have an effect on rubber.

Even well-adjusted, new cantis won't have the effectiveness of linear pulls.But any brakes should allow you to skid in a panic stop.

djb

hi there imi.
This makes me think of when I bought a new bike in 2010 to replace my old tourer. I had used cantis for decades, and I figured the new bikes cantis would be a lot stronger than the 1990 bike---but nope, I had exactly the same reaction as you. This bike also has a second set of interrupter brake levers, and the braking with them was really weak.

after a while and hearing about how softer compound pads like the salmon coloured kool stop pads could improve this , I finally put some on, and the difference was immediate and significant. Much stronger braking with main brake levers, and the interrupter levers were now useable (meaning if I really had to stop hard, I could actually use them now).

my cantilevers are the ones where you remove a pin and slide the original pads out, and simply slide new pads in.

I highly recommend trying the salmon coloured pads, the ones that are entirely that salmon colour. They are the softest compound as far as I know, there is a "mix" version, half salmon half black, but I like the "all soft".

also, my front salmon pads lasted at least four seasons, so no problems with longevity. Yours may not last that long, but to me they are still worth it.

djb

ps, when I changed the pads, no other adjustments were done to the cantis, nothing, no yoke change, no cable change, nothing, so to me this was important as it showed that the difference was only from the pads, and not from any setup change.

waddo

Yep, he is right. Try them.

Tourist in MSN

Two years ago I built up a new bike, did not use brifters but use road levers that have the same cable pull. Since I was mixing road levers with long arm V brakes, I used a travel agent instead of a brake noodle. And I used Koolstop Salmon pads. (The pads DJB suggested.) Very good braking. You mention an aversion to making a big change in hardware, but if you bought a set of V brakes, Salmon Koolstop pads, and a travel agent, that is a low cost outlay to try it. You could do one wheel at a time to see if you think that it was worth doing. I attached a photo. The photo is a bit busy because I also have a headlamp mounted on the fork crown, but you can see the important parts.

I have two different bikes with long arm V brakes with travel agents. And my folding bike uses short arm V brake levers that do not have a travel agent, I have to be careful on that bike to avoid pulling on brakes to hard, that bike also uses road levers. Regarding brake arm length, this link has a short list that you can refer to if you have to have the right length to clear fenders, etc:
https://www.gravelbike.com/v-brake-arm-lengths/

But I think you should just try the Koolstop Salmon pads first before any othe rchanges.

Travel agent is one of these:
https://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-help/travel-agent-installation-and-adjustment

imi

Hey, thanks all! I'll order Kool Stop pads. I have to buy the holders as well, "Dura 2" which come with the dual compound pads, so I'll try them out first, but will order a set of salmon pads as well.
Tourist in MSN: V-brakes and travel agents had crossed my mind. Thanks for reminding me. Good to have a "Plan B".
Once again, thanks all of you for your input! Much appreciated.

cyccommute 

imi

I just realised I've got a brand new set of Deore V-brakes that I haven't used (I've managed to trash two bikes this last year and had already bought new components to build up an old MTB frame, but used the stuff from one of the trashed bikes instead). I'll order travel agents and try that before ordering pads and holders (which cost about 70 USD here in europe).

Next problem is finding someone who sells Travel Agents over here - must be the most useless name to google for a bicycle part!

Wow! Bit pricey, neh? $40 each: https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/cables/t...11-black-each/
But hej! Between bike stuff and guitar stuff they get all my money in the end so...

Gah, can't make my mind up: Keep the cantis with new brake pad holders and pads, or go for V-brakes with travel agents. Pricewise, it's a wash...
Maybe I'll just buy one Travel Agent and try it on the front brake (which is where I really need better braking power).

djb

and you know, one other super important thing to do maintenance wise, to keep good braking power, is after a rain ride, immediately wipe the rims with a rag, to get all that gritty stuff off. When its wet, it comes off super fast, and I also sometimes wipe and check the pads themselves for any embedded grit or metal flakes, which happens sometimes.

keeping a really good "pad to rim" interface clean really helps with braking power, or at least what ive found with my bikes compared to friends bikes that they never do this.
just takes a minute to do
over time its worth it and your rims will be in better condition also.

fietsbob

Link wire on the front was a failsafe for knobby tire bikes...
with mudguards or a bracket under the cross over cable ,

If the main cable were to break suddenly. it wont stop your wheel suddenly..

fietsbob

Yea because the company, QBP, no longer offers them , at the head of the supply chain..
So you have a limited number out in the marketplace ..

Rick

I like brakes that stop. The Paul MINIMOTO

fietsbob

Ive been using the same Mafac Cantilever brakes in my bike since 1975.. kool stop pads ,

new Cross brake pad style is Road length, so opening the caliper clears the fork blade..

meyers66

79pmooney

+2 but I have a garden hose. I spray my bikes with slightly heavier than a mist, then blast the brake shoes, from the front and the back with the jet (also the inside of the fenders if on). Quick, keeps drivetrains a lot cleaner, the bikes looking a lot better and the brakes feel clean and abraision free next ride. The rag would probably help some more.

Ben

meyers66

JohnJ80

Agree. These are the brakes I have on the front of one of my bikes and the Paul's cantilevers on the back. They work great even awesome. Highly recommend them.

robow

And if or when you have decided that canti brakes just aren't for you, you could also consider Promax mini V brakes. I like my older Shimano canti's for touring but I do have another bike that I tour on which makes use of the Promax mini V's and they also stop well, but understand that the modulation is different on those and they will have a "firmer" feel when braking much more like side pulls on a road bike. After trying several Mini V's, I've found the Promax to be a good bang for the buck.

JohnJ80

fietsbob

I've been fine with cantilever brakes for decades , but I cannot adjust your brakes via remote surgery online for you, to Optimize them ..

a direct pull brake with shorter arms can reuse your cantilever matching brake levers ..

Longer arm (10cm) calipers you need new brake levers that pull more cable ..

robow

I've always found a brake cable hanger such as this one can make a huge difference in nullifying those symptoms.

djb

Indeedee
in 2010 I bought a Tricross, and apparently in the initial years, juddering had been an issue. By 2010 they had put in a thing just like this and I have never had the issue happen.

JohnJ80

This didn't work for me when I changed forks to a more compliant carbon one over a steel one. Thinking about it, it's going to depend on the head tube length and the fork compliance (ie. movement fore and after to manage road defects). When I put the new fork on, the braking went bezerk even though I had one of these gizmos on. Spent a lot of time fiddling around with it and finally just put on a Paul's MiniMoto v-brake and the problem was gone. My bike has a head tube that is similar relatively long - very similar to what current gravel bikes have. Older bikes typically have shorter head tubes than current bikes do so that probably limits the problem too.

So I agree that there are ways to make this work in some configurations but you also haven't totally removed the problem which is cable that spans between the head tube and the fork and they move independently of each other. Getting that cable out of the equation is the only reliable way to guarantee that the problem is solved. Only way I know to guarantee that is to go to a front v-brake. With the system of a long cable that is tied down at one end on the fork and the other end on the head tube/headset there is the opportunity for an severely underdamped or resonant system if you get the right input. That opportunity is removed with a v-brake.

J.

djb

interesting,
my understanding of this issue was that when the fork moved, the cable , if long, ended up changing the pressure on the actual brake, ending up doing like what a "bump stock" gun thing does, and so by reducing the cable from brake to that close thing, it stopped this self generating motion

interesting your example
Ill go to bed a bit less dumb than I was