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Gruppo Upgrade Suggestions for Raleigh/Reynolds 753 Frame?

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Gruppo Upgrade Suggestions for Raleigh/Reynolds 753 Frame?

Old 06-10-19, 11:19 AM
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Gruppo Upgrade Suggestions for Raleigh/Reynolds 753 Frame?

I've been off the forums for a bit, but am now training up to do the RAMROD ride (Ride around mount rainier in one day....) in Washington State. I plan to do it on a "Raleigh USA" branded but Workshop made Reynolds 753 frame.

The bike has been modernized with a 105 group set including 3x9 speed brifters, etc...

I'm looking for two suggestions:
1. A frame-deserving, higher-end modernish but still maybe vintage-ish groupset
2. A group that will let me go higher than the 28T largest cog in back for some nasty mountain passes. From what I can tell, the 28 was the largest this 105 could handle (maybe pushed to 30)

So, thought I'd appeal to the wisdom of the group for suggestions on what to track down?
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Old 06-10-19, 11:35 AM
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Hi
Originally Posted by mnmkpedals
I've been off the forums for a bit, but am now training up to do the RAMROD ride (Ride around mount rainier in one day....) in Washington State. I plan to do it on a "Raleigh USA" branded but Workshop made Reynolds 753 frame.

The bike has been modernized with a 105 group set including 3x9 speed brifters, etc...

I'm looking for two suggestions:
1. A frame-deserving, higher-end modernish but still maybe vintage-ish groupset
2. A group that will let me go higher than the 28T largest cog in back for some nasty mountain passes. From what I can tell, the 28 was the largest this 105 could handle (maybe pushed to 30)

So, thought I'd appeal to the wisdom of the group for suggestions on what to track down?
You should be able to run a 11-32 cassette with your 50, 39 & 30 triple if you use this derailleur;

https://bike.shimano.com/en-EU/product/component/tiagra-4600/RD-4601-GS.html

the 4601-GS is backwards compatible with 9 speed and has a generous practical cog size and chain wrap capacity.



Last edited by Barrettscv; 06-10-19 at 11:53 AM.
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Old 06-10-19, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Barrettscv
Hi

You should be able to run a 11-32 cassette with your 50, 39 & 30 triple if you use this derailleur;

https://bike.shimano.com/en-EU/produ...D-4601-GS.html

the 4601-GS is backwards compatible with 9 speed and has a generous practical cog size and chain wrap capacity.


This is my 105 group set. Best I have found, it was 28, maybe 30 max.

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Old 06-10-19, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by mnmkpedals
This is my 105 group set. Best I have found, it was 28, maybe 30 max.

I have this 9-speed 105 on one bike. Mine would only take a 28, nothing larger. Do you need a cassette bigger than 11-32?

Use this tool to evaluate: Mike Sherman's Bicycle Gear Calculator

..

Last edited by Barrettscv; 06-11-19 at 06:41 AM.
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Old 06-10-19, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Barrettscv
I have this 9-speed 105 on one bike. Mine would only take a 27, nothing larger. Do you need a cassette bigger than 11-32?

Use this tool to evaluate: Mike Sherman's Bicycle Gear Calculator

..
Yeah, if I could at least get to a 32, I'd be pysched. Ideally it'd be a pretty nice group set, as this frame deserves. And, of course, as my legs could use for some mountain passes!
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Old 06-10-19, 01:22 PM
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How about just replacing the RD with 9 speed XT or XTR?

The XTR M950-952 aren’t “pretty” but they do look pretty classically badass.
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Old 06-10-19, 03:59 PM
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I was never a big fan of the shimano triple with 130/74 bcd rings. Sugino makes one that will work with 9 speed (and that maybe the one that @Barrettscv is running): https://store.biketouringnews.com/su...kset-48-36-24/

It's pricey but it looks retro cool and more importantly the 48/36/24 rings are pretty sweet for long days in the saddle over mountains.
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Old 06-10-19, 04:57 PM
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"I plan to do it on a "Raleigh USA" branded but Workshop made Reynolds 753 frame."

It is against the law to post this without photos!

"... let me go higher than the 28T largest cog in back for some nasty mountain passes."

This is just begging for a triple crank where you get your granny gears up front not in the rear.
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Old 06-10-19, 05:20 PM
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Since you already have a 3x9, have you considered a 26T inner ring? I've found 26T to sort of work with STI, and 26x28 is marginally lower than 30x32. Alternatively an older Deore RD might not look too offensive if silver or matched with black parts.
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Old 06-11-19, 12:47 AM
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I'm surprised the 105 long cage can't work with a much bigger cog set out back. Gimme 10 minutes with a chain tool and such and I can dial it in for ya

If that pic in post #3 is of the big/big combo, your chain is too long; that RD can stretch a lot more than that. As it stretches out, it makes more room for bigger cogs. Take out a link pair.
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Old 06-11-19, 06:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Lascauxcaveman
I'm surprised the 105 long cage can't work with a much bigger cog set out back. Gimme 10 minutes with a chain tool and such and I can dial it in for ya

If that pic in post #3 is of the big/big combo, your chain is too long; that RD can stretch a lot more than that. As it stretches out, it makes more room for bigger cogs. Take out a link pair.
While precisely sizing the chain is critical for wide range applications, telling someone to just shorten the chain can cause a ride ending failure and destroy the rear derailleur. The picture is of no value, it's not even clear that it's on the biggest cog. If the chain is too short on the big-big combination and the cyclist shifts into that combination, the rear derailleur will fail catastrophically. While factory ratings can be exceeded with careful installation, the big-big combination must have sufficient chain length for use when selected.

I was unable to fit a 12-30 cassette with the 105 nine speed rear derailleur and a triple. I was surprise by this since I had been able to get that combination to work with the 10 speed models. Have you ever installed this derailleur and use it with the combination you are recommending? Even if you have (doubtful), the length of the derailleur hanger is critical and can vary from frame to frame, depending on the model.

Last edited by Barrettscv; 06-11-19 at 07:48 AM.
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Old 06-11-19, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Barrettscv
While precisely sizing the chain is critical for wide range applications, telling someone to just shorten the chain can cause a ride ending failure and destroy the rear derailleur. The picture is of no value, it's not even clear that it's on the biggest cog. If the chain is too short on the big-big combination and the cyclist shifts into that combination, the rear derailleur will fail catastrophically. While factory ratings can be exceeded with careful installation, the big-big combination must have sufficient chain length for use when selected.

I was unable to fit a 12-30 cassette with the 105 nine speed rear derailleur and a triple. I was surprise by this since I had been able to get that combination to work with the 10 speed models. Have you ever installed this derailleur and use it with the combination you are recommending? Even if you have (doubtful), the length of the derailleur hanger is critical and can vary from frame to frame, depending on the model.
I understand. I've pushed a lot of RDs to the max, it's kind of my thing. Haven't broken one yet. (Knock on wood!) But since there's no pics of the 105 anywhere near stretched out, I thought I'd mention chain length, since it's pretty important to getting the most capacity and range. I didn't say the pic was of the big/big combo, what I said was "IF it's of the big/big combo" then the chain could be shortened and the setup would still work fine, probably up to 34T. Of course you're absolutely right about how derailleur hanger length (and positioning in the dropout relates) to it all too. It's one of my favorite areas for tinkering.
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Old 06-11-19, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Lascauxcaveman
I understand. I've pushed a lot of RDs to the max, it's kind of my thing. Haven't broken one yet. (Knock on wood!) But since there's no pics of the 105 anywhere near stretched out, I thought I'd mention chain length, since it's pretty important to getting the most capacity and range. I didn't say the pic was of the big/big combo, what I said was "IF it's of the big/big combo" then the chain could be shortened and the setup would still work fine, probably up to 34T. Of course you're absolutely right about how derailleur hanger length (and positioning in the dropout relates) to it all too. It's one of my favorite areas for tinkering.
I really like the ten speed 4600-GS Tiagra derailleur I suggested earlier, I'm less impressed with any Shimano nine speed road derailleurs.

Yes, maximizing range is an interesting challenge. I've done this with several bikes, including a 1971 PX10 with a Simplex rear derailleur. The most extreme installation involved a 48, 36 & 22 Deore crank with 9-speed STI brifters and an 11-32 rear cassette. It could climb a tree and was totally reliable on gravel century rides;





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Old 06-11-19, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Barrettscv
While precisely sizing the chain is critical for wide range applications, telling someone to just shorten the chain can cause a ride ending failure and destroy the rear derailleur. The picture is of no value, it's not even clear that it's on the biggest cog. If the chain is too short on the big-big combination and the cyclist shifts into that combination, the rear derailleur will fail catastrophically. While factory ratings can be exceeded with careful installation, the big-big combination must have sufficient chain length for use when selected.

I was unable to fit a 12-30 cassette with the 105 nine speed rear derailleur and a triple. I was surprise by this since I had been able to get that combination to work with the 10 speed models. Have you ever installed this derailleur and use it with the combination you are recommending? Even if you have (doubtful), the length of the derailleur hanger is critical and can vary from frame to frame, depending on the model.
Could you use one of those hanger extensions that are sometimes included with crazy-big (40T) cassettes?
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Old 06-11-19, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Hudson308
Could you use one of those hanger extensions that are sometimes included with crazy-big (40T) cassettes?
These are not recommended for use with a triple. See: https://www.wolftoothcomponents.com/products/roadlink

If the OP wants a mega range and a triple, a nine speed Deore M950 or M951 rear derailleur and a 12-36 nine speed cassette would be a compatible system. I used this derailleur on the gravel bike seen above.

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Old 06-11-19, 01:28 PM
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That's based on you actually using a giant cassette though.
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Old 06-11-19, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Bad Lag
"I plan to do it on a "Raleigh USA" branded but Workshop made Reynolds 753 frame."

It is against the law to post this without photos!

"... let me go higher than the 28T largest cog in back for some nasty mountain passes."

This is just begging for a triple crank where you get your granny gears up front not in the rear.



Haha, yes, I knew I should have posted full pic when I started the thread. Though I confess I know I am horrible at bike pics. So, yeah, here's the bike. Frame is 80's SBDU made, Raleigh USA branded. My favorite non-touring bike to ride.

And yes, it has a triple, and I should be fine as-is, though it seems to be finicky shifting up out of the granny. And there's something about the way I ride (likely just placebo) that prefers to be on the middle front with a larger rear, than a granny in front, even if easier to spin.

And truth be told, there's nothing I hate about the current set up, but in addition to going larger in back cassette, I think the frame deserves a cooler set up than this 105. It isn't likely to solve my gearing wishes, but I have a line on a prettier ultegra group set with better wheelset I might pull from a donor bike.

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Old 06-11-19, 03:59 PM
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Might a different chain help with the difficult shifting off the granny gear up front?

Is it the brifters that makes shifting more difficult?

JMO, the gruppo looks fine functionally and aesthetically.

If you want input on aesthetics, I'd say get a new saddle bag. Consider, also, plain black tires (without graphics) so they don't compete with the white decals on the frame.
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