tomato coupe

Maybe you were wrong.

Paul Barnard

It's not just a Jughed thing. As mentioned in his OP, his mech has had several cracks at it as well. Others have posted that theirs are finicky. I get that you are trying to be purposefully adversarial, as has become an internet standard, but if you are going to do it, get your facts in order.

Iride01 

How are my facts not in order. Am I not allowed to post that I have had excellent experiences with my 105?

Others made conjecture too. I'm not allowed that either?

Trakhak

In a Walt Kelly Pogo strip, one of the characters told another that he was going to get a rabbit's foot for good luck. The other said, "Didn't do the rabbit much good . . . "

70sSanO

My observation is that older 9 speed was more stout and 11/12 speed is more precise.

It is tough to argue the Centeron era was better than the current era other than longevity.

John

Paul Barnard

He and his mechanic have had an issue getting his 105 working properly. He and another poster have commented on the shifters rattling. He and 2 other posters commented on finicky set up.

In your short second paragraph you used the word "you" three times and typed this too "So I think your experience is the outlier data." In less than 20 responses, 4 posters identified some sort of issue with 105. The fact is that it is more than a "you" thing as evidenced by the responses. Couple that with the comment about old cars, and it's obvious that your posts are an effort at disagreement rather than understanding. You aren't alone though, so take comfort in that.

I didn't even mention my issue. I have 105 shifters and an Ultegra derailleur. Neither I or the mech have been able to get it to shift precisely. I get inexplicable hesitation at times. Could be an Ultegra thing though, so let's not include it in the data points.

prj71

My 105 shifts flawlessly since it was initially adjusted on the bikes in 2021 and 2022 when they were new. Haven't had to make any adjustments at all since then.

I still say user error or else something isn't set up right on the bike they are attached to.

Steel Charlie

It's not been my experience that people who work in bike shops are necessarily competent. Citing their work as authoritative may not be compelling.

Just say'n

Jughed

The bike has been thru three bike shop tune ups, two different shops - one a local race shop. And I’ve often made adjustments on my own.

It’s never all just right. Right now the front mech is slow and stiff, and the rear is skipping.

It is what it is.

I just tuned the ultegra, new bike to me… it was all out of sync. Took me 10 min to re tension the cables, adjust the stops and indexing - shifts better than the 105 ever has.

70sSanO

I know that over the years mfg’s have tried to hide the cables. Not sure if this is the case, but the more a shifting cable runs through a housing, especially where there are bends, the higher the probability that shifting is impacted.

I know lower RD actuation ratios help since more cable is pulled to move an RD from cog to cog; i.e. 10 speed spacing @ 1.4 basically equals the cable pull of 8 speed spacing @ 1.7. But not sure how that translates if there is more friction in the system.

John

PeteHski

So it looks like you got a lemon then. Pick any group set you like and people will post both good and bad experiences with it.

If I was having the issues you just described above with 105 then I could say it was worse than pretty much any other group set that was functional! 105 is not inherently as bad as you have experienced. Otherwise everyone would be saying how dire it is.

There is definitely something wrong here, which in itself is not that unique. When I ride in groups it never ceases to amaze me how bad some bikes sound when shifting, regardless of the group set. There are just too many variables involved and sometimes it is difficult to find the problem.

SoSmellyAir

My first generation 105 drive train (ST-5800, FD-5800, and RD-5800-GS) has shifted flawlessly since I installed the magical R9100 shift cables and housing, which include a special flexible housing (OT-RS900) for the RD loop, two years ago.

Shimano Dura-Ace R9100 Shift Cable Set | Jenson USA

But recently it has started to occasionally miss rear shifts while riding on the small chain ring, so I know that it is almost time to redo the cables again. I will upgrade to FD-R7000 (for quicker front shifts) and RD-6800-SS (for better match to the cassette).

Kai Winters

I'll also add the "Campy" is better post...
When I built my Merlin Ti back in '99 I bought a mix of Campy 9 speed carbon Super Record, Record and Chorus parts...what was available, what I liked more and what I could afford. I rode that group for over 21 years until the rear mech failed. I tried to get parts but couldn't find any that were new and I wasn't going to buy 20 year old parts on ebay...already had them lol.
No idea how many miles...likely well over 100k...but until the rear mech failed it was a perfect shifting machine and I loved it. It sucked that the shifters didn't work with any other era derailleurs else I'd still be on it. It was also the first Campy shifters that were made for hands smaller than Paul Bunyon's...the first I could get a finger on the brake levers from the drops...lol I have small hands...

Kai Winters

I could only afford POS cars when I started driving back in '73...first car cost me $50.00 and it ran...adjusting the mix on crap carbs...cleaning fouled plugs every week or two...trying to get the springs back on drum brakes when you don't have the correct tool, my knuckles still hurt when I think about it...using the adjusting tool for the drum brakes or better yet driving in reverse and slamming on the brakes to adjust them LOL...adjusting the points, timing, etc. AM radio only LOL, then an FM converter...woohoo big times ! ! ! I could go on but only those of us from that era driving POS cars and similar can feel our pain or really enjoy driving one of today's vehicles...

Jughed

This is where the internet and internet people are funny.

I put over 20k miles on a Cdale CAAD 3,

I've currently got 9k on my Trek Emonda ALR.

The ALR is a better frame across the board.

I would say few, very few, if any people in the world, let alone just here on this little slice of the internet, have as much experience comparing those two bikes as I do.

Yet - people with zero experience with the situation, ZERO - still find a way to say I'm wrong - most likely with zero basis for their words...

I started this thread to express my opinion - and to get the predicted results from a few. Thanks for being easily predictable!!

indyfabz

https://www.bikeforums.net/forum-sug...bickering.html

mstateglfr 

Perhaps the geometry of your frame is out of tolerance with what 105 is designed for. This is/was a real thing with some frames a handful of years ago, for the record.
And it sucks that multiple shops havent been able to fix the issues.

Thing is, I doubt any of those shops would even candidly agree that current 105 is bad. It is flawless for an overwhelming % of users and when it isnt flawless, its almost always pretty easy to see that the reason isnt the level of drivetrain that is at fault since it will commonly be things like cable wear, cassette wear, chain wear, bent RD hanger, bent FD, etc etc. Those things happen to any group.
105 has long been called 'the people's drivetrain' and 'groupset for the people' because it is so well designed, built, and reliable. That you have issues genuinely sucks, but that doesnt mean your specific issues should be expanded to the groupset as a whole.

Jughed

I'm not saying it's "bad". That is where the thread went... I didn't expand anything to an entire groupset.

I'm just saying, that in my opinion - and using the often heard statement that modern day 105 is as good as older Ultegra - and in my opinion, from my experience - it isn't.

PeteHski

It's exactly what you would expect from many decades of evolution.

tomato coupe

I think it's funny that you're arguing that you have the right to express your opinion, but are getting bent out of shape because some people expressed a different opinion.

Jughed

I'm not bent out of shape...

Jughed

$5000 19.2# Road bikes?

mstateglfr 

https://www.canyon.com/en-us/road-bi...rahmenfarbe=RD
18.87# 105 mechanical drivetrain carbon frame and fork - $2200

https://www.canyon.com/en-us/road-bi...nfarbe=BK%2FBU
18.65# 105 di2 drivetrain carbon frame and fork - $2700

https://www.canyon.com/en-us/road-bi...rahmenfarbe=TQ
18.69# 105 di2 drivetrain carbon frame and fork - $3500

Jughed

Madone SL 6 Di2 Gen 6 - Trek Bikes

mstateglfr 

Hold up, are you a witch?! How did you make that bike with 105 cost more than the bike's I posted which have 105?!

Hmm...thinking about this more, I am starting to think not all bikes with the same drivetrain cost the same amount of money. I may need to Google around a bit and find out.