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Dealing with blow outs on tour - possible repairs?

Old 10-14-20, 10:28 PM
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Dealing with blow outs on tour - possible repairs?

First off, I am not talking simple "flat tires".

What I am referring to are two types of "blow outs":
1. Bead separating from rim bead seat
2. Blown side wall where tire tears away from bead

Oddly enough, I had #1 happen just today (well, yesterday... its after midnight now). I did a shake-down ride before my trip coming up - loaded - and noticed a bulge in the tire. Mind you, I had just rotated the tires and the rear tire is the one that bulged (was the front for a while). I had an issue with a bit of a "thump" in that tire on the front and found what appeared to be the bead not having been seated properly. I ended up rotating the tires, but in both cases when I remounted the tires I massaged the side walls to ensure the bead seated better.

The above having been said - when I got back from my shake down ride I was a bit surprised to see the bulge after taking care in how I mounted the tire.

I took the tire back off the rim, completely, and inspected the tire. It is all in tact - there is no separation of the bead or other abnormalities in the tire itself. So I re-mounted the tire. This time I did notice the tube near the valve stem was interfering with the bead seating. So I massaged that a bit differently and tried to get the valve stem part of the tube back up inside the tire more on that side.

From a previous thread a poster mentioned to "seat" the bead by using 2x max pressure. My tires are rated to 85psi and I was going to do 140psi. I never made it there. I hit 100PSI and KABANG! I did have safety glasses and ear muffs on just in case things went "boom" and they sure did.

On inspection - the tire did not give out. The bead came out of the rim and the pressure inside blew the tube apart in a long slice at the separation joint.

So I again took the tire back off the rim and inspected it. There is some "scraping" of the bead where the rubber is abraded off of the bead, but there is no separation of the bead anywhere.

One thing that baffles me is why, after massaging the side walls to seat the bead, that the bead would come out of the seat like that? I could understand if the bead was up inside the rim too far on one side, causing excess tire sidewall and bead to show on the other side, but that does not appear to be the case.

So I put a new tube in and remounted the tire. This time I was also careful of the tube near the valve stem and interference with the tire. I got the tire on and massaged the side wall as I did the past few times. Everything looks OK. I pumped it to 85psi (max rated) and test rode it. Everything seems just fine.

However, I am not very confident in that tire.

Tomorrow I am going to pick up another tire so I have a spare.

As for the subject of the thread - are there any ways to deal with blow-outs to, at the very least, be able to limp until a proper repair/replacement can be made?

In the case of #1 - where the tire is not damaged, but the tube gets a slice in it - is there a way to use, say, a strip of an old tube as a long "patch" - installed the same way as a small hole patch with scuffing and glue? Maybe a strip of Duct tape?

In the case of #2 - if the side wall separates from the tire is there any way to reinforce that area to hold any respectable pressure to ride on? Maybe creatively placed duct tape along the tube to keep it from stretching through the blow out zone?

On a bit of a tangent - what are everyones thoughts on rolling up a wire bead tire in tighter circles that the regular OD of the tire? I know kinking the beads as would happen when folding is bad - but if it is condensed in a tighter circle will that work? Or are there problems in doing that, also?
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Old 10-14-20, 11:17 PM
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Originally Posted by KC8QVO
First off, I am not talking simple "flat tires".

What I am referring to are two types of "blow outs":
1. Bead separating from rim bead seat
2. Blown side wall where tire tears away from bead

Oddly enough, I had #1 happen just today (well, yesterday... its after midnight now). I did a shake-down ride before my trip coming up - loaded - and noticed a bulge in the tire. Mind you, I had just rotated the tires and the rear tire is the one that bulged (was the front for a while). I had an issue with a bit of a "thump" in that tire on the front and found what appeared to be the bead not having been seated properly. I ended up rotating the tires, but in both cases when I remounted the tires I massaged the side walls to ensure the bead seated better.

The above having been said - when I got back from my shake down ride I was a bit surprised to see the bulge after taking care in how I mounted the tire.

I took the tire back off the rim, completely, and inspected the tire. It is all in tact - there is no separation of the bead or other abnormalities in the tire itself. So I re-mounted the tire. This time I did notice the tube near the valve stem was interfering with the bead seating. So I massaged that a bit differently and tried to get the valve stem part of the tube back up inside the tire more on that side.

From a previous thread a poster mentioned to "seat" the bead by using 2x max pressure. My tires are rated to 85psi and I was going to do 140psi. I never made it there. I hit 100PSI and KABANG! I did have safety glasses and ear muffs on just in case things went "boom" and they sure did.

On inspection - the tire did not give out. The bead came out of the rim and the pressure inside blew the tube apart in a long slice at the separation joint.

So I again took the tire back off the rim and inspected it. There is some "scraping" of the bead where the rubber is abraded off of the bead, but there is no separation of the bead anywhere.

One thing that baffles me is why, after massaging the side walls to seat the bead, that the bead would come out of the seat like that? I could understand if the bead was up inside the rim too far on one side, causing excess tire sidewall and bead to show on the other side, but that does not appear to be the case.

So I put a new tube in and remounted the tire. This time I was also careful of the tube near the valve stem and interference with the tire. I got the tire on and massaged the side wall as I did the past few times. Everything looks OK. I pumped it to 85psi (max rated) and test rode it. Everything seems just fine.

However, I am not very confident in that tire.

Tomorrow I am going to pick up another tire so I have a spare.

As for the subject of the thread - are there any ways to deal with blow-outs to, at the very least, be able to limp until a proper repair/replacement can be made?

In the case of #1 - where the tire is not damaged, but the tube gets a slice in it - is there a way to use, say, a strip of an old tube as a long "patch" - installed the same way as a small hole patch with scuffing and glue? Maybe a strip of Duct tape?

In the case of #2 - if the side wall separates from the tire is there any way to reinforce that area to hold any respectable pressure to ride on? Maybe creatively placed duct tape along the tube to keep it from stretching through the blow out zone?

On a bit of a tangent - what are everyones thoughts on rolling up a wire bead tire in tighter circles that the regular OD of the tire? I know kinking the beads as would happen when folding is bad - but if it is condensed in a tighter circle will that work? Or are there problems in doing that, also?
With the bead not staying in the rim I've seen with cheap tires where there was too much rubber at the bead that effected its ability to stick, that's a defect. Otherwise it should just stay, one reason for better tires. Do not go 2x the inflation pressure to seat a tire. Tires are often rated as high as 110-120psi, rims are rated 130-165psi in my experience. Once had a tire blow out, thought they had just fired the big cannon at the civil war fort around the corner. The sidewalls of the rim actually blew out. The LBS (I was 15 at the time and didn't know better) emptied the air out of the rear which was 150psi. You think a blow off is loud, detonating a rim is way worse.
You can try patching a slit tube, easiest is to replace it with the one of 2-3 spares you should always carry. But using an old tube as the patch is fine, just have to really clean the powder off it.
Tire separating from the bead, best is to boot it, keep it under inflated, ride slow and potentially walk down the hills; there's no long term safe way to deal with this.
You can safely loop a wire bead tire, 3 loops is the most I've seen and done but if you're worried carry a folding spare, weighs less and packs a lot smaller.
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Old 10-14-20, 11:20 PM
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I carry a Spare Tire.
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Old 10-14-20, 11:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Russ Roth
Tire separating from the bead, best is to boot it, keep it under inflated, ride slow and potentially walk down the hills; there's no long term safe way to deal with this.
You can safely loop a wire bead tire, 3 loops is the most I've seen and done but if you're worried carry a folding spare, weighs less and packs a lot smaller.
What is "booting" a tire?
What is "looping" a wire bead tire?
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Old 10-15-20, 06:05 AM
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Originally Posted by KC8QVO
What is "booting" a tire?
What is "looping" a wire bead tire?
Booting is putting something inside the tire to keep the tube from pushing through. Often people keep a 5 dollar bill the seat pack. Good for coffee and an energy bar when needed and when folded in half strong enough to not rip or tear when stuck between a tire, with a large hole or tear, and the tube.

Wire bead tires will be ruined if you fold them. But if you put your hands at two ends and give a gentle twist you can create 2 or 3 loops that fold against each other. 3 is the max I've seen with 700c and thin 26". A Kevlar tire of course comes folded in a small box and makes a better backup
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Old 10-15-20, 06:31 AM
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You know the 85psi Max on the tire is the actual max pressure allowed by the manufacturer? For seating the bead only, in most cases... If a tire won't seat at "Max" pressure, use some lube.
I suspect the tire is stuffed if it was previously thumping, there are some snapped cords inside the casing, especially now after being over inflated. I have a brand new Schwalbe Supermoto X that simply won't seat properly, the casing is distorted, and I will replace it.
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Old 10-15-20, 06:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Russ Roth
Booting is putting something inside the tire to keep the tube from pushing through. Often people keep a 5 dollar bill the seat pack. Good for coffee and an energy bar when needed and when folded in half strong enough to not rip or tear when stuck between a tire, with a large hole or tear, and the tube.
I've got a blow-out kit on my bikepacking bike, which consists of a Park tire boot, needles and carpet thread, super-glue, and a spare tube. This setup has saved my cheese once, and a couple times for friends already. Its a time-consuming and fidgety repair, and only temporary. I try to allay any blowouts and flats by using good tires and rims, which is usually the best practice anyway. The older I get, the more cautious I get with my riding, so flats and blowouts are occurring less and less.
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Old 10-15-20, 07:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Trevtassie
...there are some snapped cords inside the casing, especially now after being over inflated.
That was the purpose of doing a full inside inspection - and I've done that twice. To see if there was any damage to the bead or tire itself - such as the "snapped cords inside the casing" that you refer to. There aren't any signs I found of issues.

If the bead can be stretched without signs of breaking - that may be a factor to consider.

In any event, I think I got most of my answering from the replies thus far.

I always have a sewing kit with me - it is part of my first aid kit. For thread I generally use the inner strands of 550 cord. There is the standard 7x nylon strands and there is another kind of 550 cord that has multiple types of strands inside with smaller thread. I don't know what the tensile strength is. Spectra or Dyneema fishing line might be good stuff also.
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Old 10-15-20, 08:01 AM
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KC, read your post quickly, but first of all, its never necessary to pump higher than max rating to "seat" a tire, there is no need and all you need to do is to make sure the tire is positioned properly and inflate tire normally, and just keeping an eye out to make sure you havent pinched the tube or that the tire wasnt centered properly on the rim.

forget this overinflation idea, its not needed.

I wouldnt trust this tire, if it was doing weird stuff before, and you over inflated it, it just aint worth it.

also, I wouldnt worry too much about cutting a tire or whatever. Sure, it can happen, but if you are riding on pavement, and you have a normal ability to look where you are riding and not run over obvious stuff or run your bike up against sharp objects, a sidewall damage that serious is pretty easy to avoid. If you are really concerned, take a spare tire, but if your tires are in great shape (always a good idea for a trip) its certainly not a necessity.
As a professional driver, you know the most important thing is being aware of what you are riding or driving over at all times, not smacking into sharp edged potholes or whatever because you arent paying attention.

the whole "booting" a tire with an American dollar bill does work great if needed, just be aware that the chances of damaging a tire like this is pretty darn low (touch wood!) but having very good quality tires from the get go to me is the most important, and to always be aware of avoiding debris.
If I happen to run over broken glass if I havent noticed it, I'll stop and take a minute to very quickly run my finger over the tire to make sure there isnt any shards stuck in the tire. Just doing this makes a huge difference, as shards can get stuck in, then over time, work their way in further, causing a flat. Totally worth the 1 minute to do this away, waaaaaaaaaaaaay less time and hassle than fixing a flat. I wet my finger, make a line on tire, then work around to make sure nothing is stuck in.

Recently had to fix a flat on my wifes bike because she ran over stuff she didnt notice, a week later a flat. Same green beer bottle glass shards she ran over the week before and at the time I asked if she ran through the bunch of it that I avoided, but she had no idea. Normally I do the tire inspection right away, but obvoiusly something came up, we were with friends, and I forgot. She never used to believe me about why I do this, but this time was a good example.
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Old 10-15-20, 08:05 AM
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I just posted the other day, to a different thread, that I've successfully limped home twice with a booted tire and lowered tire pressure. I've also had three or four times when I tried a boot and it didn't work.

Based on that history, I agree with the recommendation to carry a spare tire. Get a light, kevlar belted folding tire. If you have to use it, replace it and keep it as your spare ASAP if you're touring more than a few days longer.

While you're prepping, make sure you know how to patch a tube. No matter how many you take (at least within reason), on a long enough tour you may run out of spare tubes and have to patch one.
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Old 10-15-20, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Trevtassie
You know the 85psi Max on the tire is the actual max pressure allowed by the manufacturer? For seating the bead only, in most cases... If a tire won't seat at "Max" pressure, use some lube.
I suspect the tire is stuffed if it was previously thumping, there are some snapped cords inside the casing, especially now after being over inflated. I have a brand new Schwalbe Supermoto X that simply won't seat properly, the casing is distorted, and I will replace it.
The sidewall pressure is 1/2 the amount that will blow the tire off of the rim.
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Old 10-15-20, 09:47 AM
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Carry 2 folding tires for an unsupported tour. There is no reason to rotate your tires. When the rear wears out put the front on the back and a new tire on the front. You want the least amount of problems with the front tire.
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Old 10-15-20, 09:50 AM
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it sounds like the tire was not new.....but If it were me, and I was going on any big tour, especially areas that may not have a lot of bike shops (think Hiway 2 across norther montana) I would start with new tires and carry a spare. cheap insurance
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Old 10-15-20, 12:26 PM
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But I haven't carried a spare tire for many decades. I've booted with money twice and both times worked fine to get me to the next shop. Both times were on sharp stones, once with a cheap tire, once with an expensive tire.

And both times I was able to take the ruined bill to a bank and get a new bill. As long as you have both serial numbers, you can turn it in.
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Old 10-15-20, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by davidad
Carry 2 folding tires for an unsupported tour. There is no reason to rotate your tires. When the rear wears out put the front on the back and a new tire on the front. You want the least amount of problems with the front tire.
two? Depends on what unsupported tour means to you, but to me, thats overkill and not what Ive done on long trips (1 month, 2 month) One more tire worth more weight and space.
On what sort of trips have you carried two spares?
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Old 10-15-20, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by davidad
The sidewall pressure is 1/2 the amount that will blow the tire off of the rim.
Couple of things,
1: got a link to a reliable source for this "factoid"
2: There are plenty of larger volume tires that would either explode or damage the rim long before they reached twice the sidewall pressure. Good example is the Surly Extra Terrestrial, it doesn't even like being pumped to it's max pressure of 60psi, at which point it would be way above the maximum rated pressure of any rim you'd fit it to, let alone pumped to 120psi..
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Old 10-15-20, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by pdlamb
I just posted the other day, to a different thread, that I've successfully limped home twice with a booted tire and lowered tire pressure. I've also had three or four times when I tried a boot and it didn't work.

Based on that history, I agree with the recommendation to carry a spare tire. Get a light, kevlar belted folding tire. If you have to use it, replace it and keep it as your spare ASAP if you're touring more than a few days longer.

While you're prepping, make sure you know how to patch a tube. No matter how many you take (at least within reason), on a long enough tour you may run out of spare tubes and have to patch one.
hey PD, are you talking mountain biking and going through big rock gardens or stuff like that? I dunno, I guess I've lived a sheltered life but (big touch wood here again) I've never damaged a sidewall of a bicycle tire in all my years cycling, so its hard to imagine that you've experienced it 5 or 6 times--but again, mountain biking is something else where the chances of riding up against sharp stuff is way more common.
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Old 10-15-20, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by djb
two? Depends on what unsupported tour means to you, but to me, thats overkill and not what Ive done on long trips (1 month, 2 month) One more tire worth more weight and space.
On what sort of trips have you carried two spares?
You got me. I started late and have only done week long unsupported tours. I carry one folding tire, two tubes, a reinforced gasket material boot and a patch kit all of the time. I was giving the OP options, you?
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Old 10-15-20, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Trevtassie
Couple of things,
1: got a link to a reliable source for this "factoid"
2: There are plenty of larger volume tires that would either explode or damage the rim long before they reached twice the sidewall pressure. Good example is the Surly Extra Terrestrial, it doesn't even like being pumped to it's max pressure of 60psi, at which point it would be way above the maximum rated pressure of any rim you'd fit it to, let alone pumped to 120psi..
A dealer who got the message from Specialized, why?
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Old 10-15-20, 07:13 PM
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Originally Posted by davidad
You got me. I started late and have only done week long unsupported tours. I carry one folding tire, two tubes, a reinforced gasket material boot and a patch kit all of the time. I was giving the OP options, you?
Ive been touring for about 30 years, generally have put newish tires on when I have toured, so never took a spare tire until more recently, when I did a couple of longer trips in Latin America, riding through Central America and another through about half of Mexico. On those trips, I took one spare tire, with the reasoning that if I had an issue, it probably would be hard to find a high quality tire. Hope for the best but plan for the worst.
I knew that I could find some sort of mediocre 26in tire in smalltown, Guatemala or whatever, but figured it was totally worth carrying one spare, to have another great tire if something weird happened.
In the end, didnt need it, carried the same spare for months and months and months at the bottom of my pannier. Didnt even get any flats on those trips and other trips afterwards on the same set of tires.

so thats my reasoning behind my view that two spares is overkill.

Last edited by djb; 10-15-20 at 08:32 PM. Reason: Hope for the best, plan for the worst
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Old 10-15-20, 07:18 PM
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Originally Posted by KC8QVO
From a previous thread a poster mentioned to "seat" the bead by using 2x max pressure.
That deserves some sort of award for "Worst Advice of the Week" on bike forums.
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Old 10-15-20, 10:29 PM
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Originally Posted by djb
hey PD, are you talking mountain biking and going through big rock gardens or stuff like that? I dunno, I guess I've lived a sheltered life but (big touch wood here again) I've never damaged a sidewall of a bicycle tire in all my years cycling, so its hard to imagine that you've experienced it 5 or 6 times--but again, mountain biking is something else where the chances of riding up against sharp stuff is way more common.
I've done it a couple times with road, best/worst was riding cross with a brand new set of hutchinsens, rode 4 miles to a wooded section I liked to practice in, came out of the woods and the tires didn't look right. Had the tube pushing out in 5 spots in the back and 3 in the front, don't know how any of them didn't blow out when the tire ripped to begin with. Dropped the pressure, made it home and threw out the tires. Sometimes road debris is hard to avoid.
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Old 10-15-20, 11:05 PM
  #23  
csport
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I had a sidewall explosion after a day ride in the downpour on the C&O: https://www.bikeforums.net/bicycle-m...along-rim.html -- scenario #2 . Loud bang! I was very lucky for it to happen right when I reached Cumberland. So I learned the light way what 10 Wheels says: carry a spare tire on a tour.
Not sure if the tire can be temporarily fixed with a duct tape, but the inner tube is a total loss in this case.
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Old 10-16-20, 05:48 AM
  #24  
djb
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Not that this is a guarantee or anything, but I have found that by going over your bike carefully once a week on a trip, to clean, check bolt tightness, and yes to check tires, is just a good idea to help spot weird stuff going on or at least be aware of things like a little sidewall damage.

at my age now, it clearly helps putting on reading glasses.

even not on tour, the general idea of taking time regularly to check everything on your bike does help avoid developing problems, at least to catch them early. I admit I probably don't inspect my tires closely enough, but i try to.

case in point of blowouts--few years ago we organized a two day ride with friends. Second day, the husbands tire goes KAPLOWEE!!! As the resident mechanic, I go to fix it and sure enough, his tire was worn all to heck right down to the cords, so it inevitable to happen.
also didn't have qr and he didn't have either a wrench nor spare tube. Luckily was towards end of second day, but still was a huge waste of time. To him this "just happened" or was "bad luck" but it happened because his tire was worn and he had no idea.
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Old 10-16-20, 07:32 AM
  #25  
andrewclaus
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Originally Posted by djb
Not that this is a guarantee or anything, but I have found that by going over your bike carefully once a week on a trip, to clean, check bolt tightness, and yes to check tires, is just a good idea to help spot weird stuff going on or at least be aware of things like a little sidewall damage....To him this "just happened" or was "bad luck" but it happened because his tire was worn and he had no idea.
Ditto this. One of my favorite quotes from my days as a first responder is "You make your own luck." We often downplayed some successes, saying how lucky we were that something didn't bite us. But in fact it was training, preparation, and good experienced leadership that kept us out of trouble.

Every time I put air in my tires (and now I need reading glasses just to read the darn gauge), I check the wheels for tire wear and bearing play.
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