KC8QVO

Just curious what peoples' thoughts are here on the wider tire options for touring rigs. I ride all year round as much as I can, but when the snow and ice hits in the winter time that pretty much keeps me off the bike. If it is mild and the roads are clear I'll get the bike out and ride around the block, but I am not doing much real riding. The trail I ride is crushed gravel and is not ridable for me (42mm tires) when spring breaks and the thaw hits. If the trail is clear of snow and cold enough that the water entrapped in the gravel is frozen solid it is ride-able, but I have screwed myself before riding a long ways out on the trail early in the day with it frozen then had the trail thawed on the way back = tires sank.

With a disk brake set up I would think a couple wheel sets on the same bike would offer a lot of versatility - a wide tire option for flotation when needed, then a more mild size for more general riding, depending on the type of trip.

Do you have any rules of thumbs for tire width and conditions? The softer the terrain the wider the tire, obviously, but like dense/packed snow is ride-able at one width, softer snow is ride-able at another width, soft/loose gravel is one width, wet gravel/mud is another width?

What about rack mounts, racks, and fenders?

SparkyGA

Bigger the tire = More fun. Seriously. People get crazy about running the skinniest/lowest rolling resistance tire they can but once they go to a bigger tire bike they never go back.

Your pretty limited to tire size on a Disc Trucker with a 700C (45mm max tire). Your best options would either to run studded tires, cyclocross tires for a big more bite or swap your front fork out for something with more clearance. If your interested in riding all year around, look at what other cyclists are riding during the winter in your area. A normal MTB might work fine for your part of the woods if you don't get too much snow or you might need to look at the some of the bigger tire options. Fat bikes are pretty awesome all year around

Racks and such I wouldn't worry too much about. Their are options out there from number of companies (Salsa, Tubus, Old Man Mountain Topeak etc)

KC8QVO

The Disk Trucker is pretty well set up now (minus racks, I have a cheap one I am using for the time being but have materials to make a front/rear set, when I get some time - maybe a winter project). It had 38mm tires stock, I put 42mm's on. For the majority of my riding it is a good tool for the job.

I have a mountain bike with wider tires - 26x1.95. This bike doesn't work on the trail, either. Before I got the disk trucker it is what I started up riding again. The first time I hit the trail spring of 2014 the tires sank.

dh024

Last fall, I had roughly similar interests to you: I wanted a bike with a wider tire for comfy dirt-road touring in the summer and something more snow-capable in the winter (i.e. more float). I had my sights set on a fat-bike, initially, but after demo-ing and borrowing a bunch of fat bikes, I realized they were overkill for me. I ended up on a 29+ bike and could not be happier. Those 3" x 29er tires roll suprisingly well on the road, they are supreme on dirt roads and tame singletracks, and they do a great job at low pressure in the winter on snowy roads (although I still prefer 29er studded tires for icy roads) - perfect for my type of riding. Anyways, I currently ride/own 700 x 42, 29 x 2, and 26 x 2.4 bikes, but my 29 x 3 bike is my favourite for dirt-road touring and snowy winter commutes, by far. Something to consider.

Another thought is to look into 29er bikes that have enough clearance for 27.5 x 3" tires (similar diameter) or a purpose-built 27.5+ bike that you swap 29er wheels in -- two bikes in one, especially if you want to run both 'fat' tires and studded tires in the winter.

schnee

For fat bikes, most run 4" wide tires on 80mm rims. Those can also run regular 29er wheels/2.4" tires, as well as the new 27.5+ wheels / 3" tires. Those are usually what's used for groomed trails, snowmobile trails, racing, and bike packing. See: Pugsley, Beargrease, Mukluk.

For the truly 'go anywhere' fat bikes that run 4.6" tires on 80mm rims, those also run 29+ setups, as in 700c, 40-50mm wide rims with 3" tires. Those are for the most off-the-beaten path bikes that see a lot of beach sand and truly soft/muddy/horrible conditions. See: Moonlander, Blackborow.

From everything I've read, MOST people are fine with a 4" tire / 80mm rim capable fatbike for most conditions. That would give you the most ability to fine-tune your ride with a wheel swap, since you can use 26er fat wheels / 27.5+ wheels / normal 29er wheels.

Personally, I own a 907 bike that can handle 5" tires / 100mm rims, but that's because I'm a former gym rat weighing 120kg and I ride on a lot of wet sand and fresh snow. I need all the float I can get, and at times it still doesn't matter because at my weight I just crunch through to the ground anyway, where someone a mere 80kg just rolls along the top of the snow.

mdilthey

I ride a 29er. With most 29ers, you can run big fat 2.5in tires on a 700c rim, but you also have the option of a "fatbike" tire with a 3in. tire on a 27.5 rim.

This new "B+" or "27.5+" format is gaining a lot of ground because most 29er frames are fine being retrofit for it. There's far more wheels and tires being sold than complete bikes, which indicates that lots of 29er owners are buying.

If you had two wheelsets, one 29er and one 27.5+, you'd have great wheels for snow and winter without buying a second bike, or dealing with any of the crazy hub widths of the fatbike market (not that they're bad, just not as widely available).

Tourist in MSN

I have no desire to go touring in winter, but I do continue to ride then.

If the ground or snow is so soft that I need a wide tire for flotation, I would rather not be there. Gravel trails I usually ride with a 50mm or 57mm wide tire, I use that much width because it has better grip and traction than something narrower.

Winter, I switch to Schwalbe Marathon Winters and try to stay on plowed pavement, the studs work well on ice as long as there is not so much snow to prevent my studs from reaching the underlying ice.

I will drop the tire pressure if I want the studs to contact the hard pack or ice better, but if the roads are largely clear of snow I raise the pressure.

irwin7638

I'm using a Hunqapillar with 50cm Schwalbe Big Bens. Those are big enough for me and I no longer worry about the road surface along a route. With those tires, the transition from trail to road, mud, two tracks or gravel is effortless. I can just meander through the countryside if I please.



Marc

KC8QVO

That looks like a neat set up. Those tires are about as wide as my mountain bike tires now. For dry off road use that works, but when the trail turns to mush after spring thaw they won't cut it.

irwin7638

It handled the C&O trail the first week of April this year. Some sections were muddy as hell and submerged would be a good description of some sections. It worked, they cut it.

Marc

fietsbob

Touring is the Trip, the bike You want to use is all up to Your preference.

DropBarFan

I do little off-road riding so I'm not arguing with the experts here that recommend wide tires. But OTOH, how do CX riders make it thru mud/slush etc on fairly narrow tires? A friend who had worked on farms in Oklahoma claimed that many of the farm pickups used narrower tires, supposedly they'd sink down & get traction while fatter tires would skate on the surface. BTW local newspaper once had a feature article on New England's unpleasant spring "mud season" where ground is frozen except for melting top layer, makes it really tough for folks w/dirt driveways. Tire width aside, I'd guess for deep mud one would want an aggressive knobby tire?

Tourist in MSN

When I rode the GAP/C&O trail after several days of rain, I was pleasantly surprised how solid the C&O was. I was not even concerned about riding thru the puddles because I was convinced that the ground under them was good and solid to ride on.

I had 50mm width (Dureme on front, Marathon Extreme on rear), one friend had 47mm width and one had 35 or 37mm width. All three of us were convinced we brought the right tires.

bmike

I love the 29+ setup for mixed terrain touring. Forest roads, single track, double track, bushwhacking, and certain tires even handle pavement OK.

Untitled by Mike, on Flickr

Untitled by Mike, on Flickr

bikemig 

I use a mtb I converted to drop bars for winter fun. It's a 1987 specialized stumpjumper comp that I picked up for cheap. I use 26 x 1.9 continental winter contact tires and they work on the MUP I ride on late into the year.

MassiveD

Selling is all about the skinniest or the fattest. The sweet spot though is around 1.5, you can run pretty much any continuous offroad trail, like the continental divide, but you can also run slicks at what are pretty much agreed to be the most efficient rolling resistance for non-racers, based on thelattest research where even the racers are running 28s. Can you find a hog wallow somewhere that will need fatter tires, but is probably a pretty short loop to call a tour? Sure. That is what your rusty MTB is for, but I wouldn't ruin my touring bike with those tires.

The 4 inchers are a totally different bike. A few people think they are all arounders, but they will go places where there isn't any trail. A guy cycled around our lake last summer. The "beach" is a horrible rock studded ankle breaker. But he just floated along at well above walking speed. And these are the same tires that open up untracked deserts, to some extent. But 2 inchers? Not enough float for trackless sand patches, efficiency for almost anything that looks like a road.

I do think that more touring bikes should be built to handle a much wider range of tires. With interchangeable forks one could have just about any wheel with discs.

KC8QVO

That looks like a nice set up. Can you give us some details about it? What are your thoughts on racks? I see you have the frame bag and some other small bags. How much riding do you do with the pack on your back? I'd be curious what your reasoning/thoughts are for the way you are set up.

I am looking at the Surly lineup. It looks like the ECR, Pugsley, and Moonlander are the same bike, just greater tire width clearance. Would there be any reason not to get the widest option? Disk brakes pretty much leaves wheel sets limitless.

Lou Skannon

I did an off-road tour on 4 inch tyres this year. It did take more effort but I was much more relaxed on the rougher sections as I didn't have to worry about a buckled wheel. I saw some 2.5 x 29 inch wheel-sets with fat-bike hubs on tinternet for about $125 which was tempting. Thinking 2.5 x29 front and 4 x26 rear would look cool.

bmike

The bike is a Surly Krampus. I have a Rohloff hub that I use for bikepacking, otherwise I have been riding it single speed. In the picture I'm running with a Shimano dyno front wheel to power my light and to use as a charger with a USBWerk.

Bags - I prefer the soft bags over racks and panniers for the kind of riding I do. Racks suck in single track or when the terrain gets rough. The backpack is handy when the terrain gets rough. I loaded more in the pack this trip for a section that had multiple creek crossings, hike a bike, and tough terrain. Pushing a lighter bike made life easier on those sections. I put more load on the bike for the road and dirt road sections.

Summer trips - no backpack - or only a really small and lite pack when I need to carry extra food or water. But I've worked hard not to need one.

This picture?

From today. 3 day trip. I carried all my food (but had 1 meal in town), and I had to plan for 65° daytime temperature at the start to 22° overnight last night. Friday night was in the high 30°s. Saturday night it got down into the 20°s according to the nearest town. Could have been less where I was in the mountains - my hydro hose started to freeze up within 5 minutes of drinking. And water left in my cook pot froze as I packed my tent.

Add snow, rain, freezing rain to the mix and I carried more clothes than a summer trip. In that picture is food for 3 days (although I was down to minimal calories in that picture), water (and filter) in the frame bag, kitchen, bear bag and 40' of line, 0° down bag, insulated sleeping pad, Tarptent Moment, rain gear, dry camp clothes, folding saw (fire!), 2 cameras, tools, 2 tubes, toilet supplies, meds, first aid kit, SPOT tracker, etc.

I could have packed lighter, and with less food and resupplied in town, but wanted to be self sufficient. And wanted to test the new pack and how things work with a 'heavy' load. I've gone lighter and have sacrificed creature comforts (pillow, camera(s), extra clothes, etc.

I rode ~88 miles and did a sub 48 hour trip - (slow, sure) - I covered ~28 miles of pavement, ~14 miles of single track (which I pushed / walked about 6 miles of due to trail conditions averaging 1 mph or less) and the rest was forest road that went from smooth and hardpack to sandy and soft to muddy and rocky.

I camped each night. First night in a lean to, second in my tent. Bear bagged my food. Didn't mess with a fire as it was really wet in the woods, although I would have enjoyed the warmth - especially on day 2.

What I woke up to this morning:
Untitled by Mike, on Flickr

Most of my day Saturday with temps dropping until the snow started to stick:
Untitled by Mike, on Flickr

chrisx

27.5 plus for fat tires and 700c for the road on the same frame?
Are a b+ 3 inch tire and a 700x42mm tire about the same height?

I have been wanting a new bike for 2 or 3 years now. I think I will go the B+ route.
here is an article on the subject
https://mbaction.com/home-page/scott-...us-sized-bikes
It has been a long wait from the drawing table to the show room floor.
How does this look
27.5 PLUS MTB CARBON FRAME FIT FOR 3.0 TIRE - dengfubikes

schnee

Nope, you'd need a 29er MTB rim with a 2.2"-2.4" tire to fit a 27.5+ bike. Otherwise your BB would drop.

KC8QVO

bmike - what is your gear inch range with the different set ups you have? Though, I realize SS its fixed.

I'm thinking the size tire you have is about where I'd want to start, the smaller end. Those look to be Dirt Wizards, 29+ size is about 2.75" wide, 70mm at the lugs according to Surly's site. I would be real curious how much flotation they would provide, certainly more than anything I have now but I don't know if they will float easy enough over the soft thawed gravel.

My theory is with the wide tires the rolling resistance is surely going to be higher than narrower tires - more ground contact - when on hard ground. However, where I get in to trouble is when the tires are displacing the ground they are rolling on I'm doing twice as much work to "plow" through. I want to get up on top and float so as to not displace the ground surface. Displacing the ground I am riding on is surely higher than any rolling resistance of a larger tire. Displacing the ground is like riding with the brakes on.

schnee

Yeah, I have 2.0 Schwalbe Marathon Plus tires on my Vaya, and it feels a bit like a couch on a smooth road - not a zingy little road bike - but when I zone out and hit a pothole at speed, or cruise through sandy gravel, or even deal with rough chip seal roads I'm glad to have the cushion.

bmike

The Rohloff is something like 17 inches to 94 inches or something.
SS I run 30/20 or 32/20.
I ran 1x10 for awhile that gave me 24 inch to 80 inch.

The big tires roll really well once up to speed, all considering.
I have a Pugsley I use as snow bike and for rough stuff. Did some overland travel a couple of years ago and that worked really well, even in forest roads and a bit of pavement.

The Knards roll well on gravel and hardpack.
I have dirt wizards on the single speed wheelset. Those are great in the woods, OK on hardpack and forest roads.
I also use the Nicotine studded tires on the Krampus with the rabbit hole rims. Those are 2.3 and the mount up great.
Depending on what rim you use you can have lots of options for tires - standard 29r fare up to the 3" plus sizes.

My friend has an ice cream truck that he runs 29+ tires in for trails. The Surly Wednesday would be a good platform for that as well... Unless you want to run an IGH or a dyno hub.

bmike

I ran a Fargo for a long time as my camping bike... love that bike - except that I kept taking it into wilder and rougher places (which is why I built the Krampus...).

Here's the Fargo with 2.1s Race Kings on it. Worked well for mixed terrain.
I loved the WTB Vulpine tires for gravel / dirt / mild and buffed singletrack and pavement.

yard sale by Mike, on Flickr

Here's the Pugsley from that overland trip:
IMG_2150 by Mike, on Flickr