mrv 

- yes. yes. it's funny. it's a funny video. really. it's like 2 minutes of funny.

2019 I got a 1990 Biachi - fully rigid - for $60. Spent maybe $175 or so on tires / tubes / cables / pads / seat. It's totally fine for local trails. Great for what I want to do - connect local trails and coffee shops.
Riding in Pisgah, I dunno how a body would ride a fully rigid bike through continuous piles of rocks. I don't want to do piles of rocks on full-squish or full rigid. I'm hiking that.
So sure! If someone says I think I want to down hill a pile of rocks, they are going to need to spend $2k .

If this hypothetical person just wants to ride wants to ride local trails and get some exercise on something that's durable: $350: https://detroit.craigslist.org/okl/b...257497160.html
- I use a similar RockHopper for touring & bike camping. It was free!

i think i've lost the point. what are we talking about again? i better wander back over to the C&V department.... not sure why they let me out.
cheers.

homelessjoe

Ritchey and Kelly Breezer Fisher used old Schwinn clunkers to first ride the repack mountain trails......they had so much fun that they still grin and talk about it today......If you are competing and racing you definitely need the latest and the best top of the line gear I completely agree 100 per cent......winning is usually down to seconds or fractions....a few ounces can make the difference......but if youre strong enough to hang with the big dogs someone will buy you that bike and pay you to race it.....if youre not competing then your just working out trying to have some fun.........if you are rich spend the money no problem......if not look for a deal....there are amazing deals out there really nice bikes......[not walmart]....or hell try out a wallmart bike......if it dont kill ya it will make you stronger......rich people are not better riders than poor people......they dont have more fun either......I always thought Armstrong and Merckx were such strong riders they could have won the Tour on Huffys..........I ride an old Stumpjumper and its way more bike than I can handle anyway...I wipe out so often.......i would probably kill myself on a new bike......ask those repack guys......it aint about the bike its about the mountain

Miradaman

Personally, I don't think you need to spend that much, in my amateur opinion. I rented a mid-range Giant Talon hardtail last summer that retailed for around $750 and threw it down many rocky, rooty steep trails in Colorado. It was more than up to the task. On a later trip to CO I rented a $2200 Co-Op brand full suspension mtb from REI and found despite the $1700 difference, it was not noticeably better on descents and was actually not quite as good on the climbs...

prj71

Hardtail is always more efficient on a climb vs. full suspension.

mack_turtle

if you ask the average person who has just started to have an interest in buying a mountain bike, $750 is an "outrageously expensive bike for 'Lance Armstrong types.'" most people don't know what bikes cost and it's a rude awakening to them when the figure that out.

DMC707

maybe on gravel or a fire road. A properly designed XC full suspension bike doesnt give up much to a hardtail even in those examples though. Hardtail vs a bigger travel pseudo enduro bike or something similar is another story entirely though

DMC707

I love the videos posted! The guy on the Huffy looks silly as hell but is obviously a talented rider with some bmx experience. The lads trying to DH the wal mart bikes got the outcome i would expect

personally, i have ridden nothing but Santa Cruz or Yeti machinery for the last 15 years (you mean people actually ride bikes that cost less than 4k? — LOL). So many might discount my opinions as being elitist but i will share a testimony

I still have an older (2005 or so) Santa Cruz Superlight. It is 26” and a pretty cheap build spec. Basically i bought an off the rack newer Superlight with a Deore build for a song and launched the budget-ish parts onto the still nice frame to keep around as a buddy bike while i outfitted the new bike with full XTR.
The “buddy bike” wound up collecting dust in my brothers garage until i took it back for a spare for a trip.

specs are as follows - 05 Santa Cruz Superlight w/ Fox air shock (pre rp-3) and a RockShox Tora fork, - it is an airfork, but basic, chrome stanchions even. 100mm front and rear. Wheels are Deore level hubs with Mavic 117 rims, rest of drivetrain is 1x10 Deore and Zee. The cockpit is all good stuff discardedfrom other bikes

i would expect i could purchase a bike like this for $500 or less if i beat the bushes on Pinkbike for a day or 2.

current daily driver is a Yeti SB 29’er with nicer grade xtr and eagle components, — but while that bike was down forsome kind of maintenance (i forgotwhat - maybe having a footprint gas pedal installed) , i took the old “buddy bike” out - andby out, i mean i took it to Bentonville.
At first i took some razzing from buddies on riding a low spec bike (riding a built in excuse machine etc etc). And i wont say i lit up the trails i was on, —. But the old bike performed just like it was supposed to- didnt hold me back and i enjoyed my experience , - because the bike itself was only part of the experience.

The rest was the scenery, the road trip, b-s ing with friends, all good stuff.

and yes, my 140mm travel modern bike with an 11-50 rearcassette and big brakes would have made some segments go by faster, - i still had a ton of fun and wouldnt hesitate someone find a nice used $500 bike to get your feet wet if you can take a common sense approach to evaluating how worn out it may or may not be (worn drivetrain teeth and bashed up pedals or suspension leaks are red flags )

Happy Feet

Just got out today for some more riding on my 92 Marin Pine Mountain.

Russ Roth

The problem with this advice always falls under what I highlighted, the average person asking has no clue what they're looking at, its why they're asking.

This is not a route I would ever want to ride with that bike, the rest sure, but I like more modern geometry and I really like modern wheel sizes and brakes.


Although I really like more expensive bikes in general with out a doubt things can be much more budget then people like to think about. My kids ride 420.00 24" mtbs from the LBS, I upgraded the disc brakes to hydraulic, picked up some previous generation 400 series shimano brakes for 40.00 new off ebay and although the Kenda small blocks were good I wanted lighter and faster and ordered Rocket Rons from Europe for 50.00 per bike. So for just over 500 per they've had no trouble riding every single trail on the East end of the Island to the center of the Island. Black diamonds and everything. Only upgraded the brakes since it became obvious hitting the Hempstead Harbor trails that the brakes were inadequate due to their ability to squeeze the levers.
The equivalent adult bike is 550-600 but no reason a person couldn't spend that, toss on platforms for another 40.00 to 50.00 and spend hours in the woods having a good time.

peterlewis

Cheap hobby doesn't exist lol

peterlewis

btw, great pics over there

Happy Feet

I've bolded a couple of parts.

It's true many people don't know what to look for but on this forum (and others of course) people also don't listen very well to what they need. Many people, just wanting to ride some basic trails, are told they need bikes in the K's instead of the C's. Recommendations fall somewhere between the real budget and the real purpose. The "you need a better bike" doesn't really help that much.

The bike above is just an example of an alternative that gets a person in and riding for less than thousands. If given the choice I would probably like a modern bike as well but this will do most of the time. The issue for me isn't poverty, I have a 50K line of credit I could tap at any time, but I have a home and three kids and like to live withing my means and juggle several expensive hobbies, making progress upgrading in each of them along a schedule. The modern FS mtb is next on the list but I'll wait until the time is right and a deal appears.

Modern brakes are good, and there is something to be said for modern geometry, but I think FS and larger tire sizes only really come into play once you start getting air via jumps, drops or ledges or start really hammering uneven surfaces in a way that will break less forgiving bikes. Many new riders aren't looking to do that and that's the question/info that guides me in suggesting a cheaper alternative or saying they pretty well need a better modern bike.

In the meantime, I ride what I brought regularly and upgrade as I go (as you noted in your post). Some people might say that's pouring good money into a lost cause but most of my upgrades move from bike to bike. The suspension and second wheelset came from a $100 donor bike. Other than that; saddle, grips, pedals, bars, dropper, even crankset and cassette, can move to other projects.

Not everyone is into project bikes of course, but a cheaper entry bike can also serve as a back up once a better bike is purchased.

Cheers

prj71

Back in 2005 that bike was ~$1500 MSRP new.

Kinda of the point of the meme on this thread...It's not about getting into mountain biking with used bike you may find a good deal on. It's about the people that want to buy a good quality BRAND NEW bike and expecting they can get one for $500.

prj71

Many new riders want to ride mountain bike trails. Not sure what the trails are like by you but what you describe above is what a majority of the trails are like in my state other than some flow trail that has been built in recent years in which a hard tail is good enough.

Russ Roth

I will agree that people suggest way too high for what can be gotten away with. I bought my MTB new in 2018 but it was an old stock 2015 Cannondale that I guess the company found in storage since the shop was able to order direct from C-dale for it. Was a 2k bike for 950 and worth every dime. I've looked at modern bikes in the shops and honestly I think 700.00 is really the best entry level price point but even low end geometry is the same as what was top end only 15 years ago, its something else that has just trickled down.
My bike is a hardtail and I only had 2 other MTBs a 97 Raleigh m55 which was fine but heavy and didn't handle that well and was quickly traded for a 99 raleigh m400 which was noticeably better and had more aggressive geometry. I will say that even though I'm slower on the road by 3-4mph then I was then and about 45lbs heavier the speed difference on my modern mtb is obvious. Where I couldn't compete in beginner class races with the Raleigh I actually came close to placing with the C-cale. There's less walking, actually haven't walked a rock field since getting on it as it just rolls over, and handling small drops and jumps just comes smoother. Although I know that a 500.00 bike wouldn't do as well, from what I've seen they'd still do as good and probably better then that Raleigh. When it comes to road I don't think the whole aero push matters much to the average person nor with there be the same disadvantage of using a 20yo road bike vs a new one all things being equal since road geometry hasn't changed much at all and they still use the same wheel size, even tires had moved towards 23 and 25c tires. But mtb I don't think the same is true but as you say, it still only requires C notes to get there.

Happy Feet

In live in the British Columbia North shore region. Trails are usually gravity flow with varying degrees of difficulty. Lots of big drops, gaps, steep switchbacks, elevated bridges and boardwalks and rock gardens/roots. Most of the features on green/blue runs have bailout ride arounds but you can get in trouble pretty easy if you want.

Bikes like mine can do most of those runs until you start getting air. Then, I at least, begin worrying about busting the stock fork. Same with ramming larger obstacles rigid. That's why I use an old 26r instead of trashing my fat bike. You can always take rock gardens and roots slower, picking a line instead of plowing though, which is what I do, less so now with the suspension fork.

Black runs usually overwhelm the V/canti brakes too much and have drops/ledges big enough to make an old school design sketchy. Hopefully, new riders aren't doing those before building some skills although there could be a whole thread on how modern full squish hydraulic bikes lure inexperienced riders into over committing. I sometimes ride my sons 27.5 technical DHr and the stuff it can plow through is amazing in comparison

A lot of times, I see a lot of people riding pretty basic routes with very expensive bikes. Overbiking as it were.

I've also ridden in Moab, which is a lot like Phoenix I think, and the difference is the flatish rocky ledges down there. That would be hard for an old school rigid to ride so region does have something to do with selection.

Happy Feet

Just want to day I've appreciated the good exchange of ideas in this thread. Lots of different perspectives on the issue

katsup

This will be me once I get my bike. After a bad wrist break a few years ago, I'll gladly be over biked if I don't have to go through that surgery and recovery again.

Happy Feet

Nothing wrong with that. I've toured mixed pavement and trails with a 4.6 inch fat bike.

The only negative I see is when over biking becomes the new "required" biking and adequate biking is seen as now "not good enough". This is bound to happen in a consumer-centric environment where people who have purchased expensive bikes refer to their own selection bias and see their choice as the "right" choice. It's definitely "a" choice but not the only one. The counter balance to that tendency are comments from people who ride with not so expensive technology. That's the back and forth happening here.

A well balanced forum has both; otherwise it becomes nothing more than an industry referral platform where new models are championed because they do something better than last years model. That's fine for what it is but I can get a hundred new industry reviews by using my googlator button. I like forums for what I can't get from them.

katsup

I agree with you there. When I was riding with groups, only 10% of us were on hard tails, despite how easy the trails were. However, no one looked down on you having a cheap bike, we were all just out having fun.

Heck, now a days I am riding a rigid vintage bike on fireroads and the majority of the mountain bikes I see are ebikes riding the same trails. A lot of the people I know who mtb also moved to ebikes which has caused my idea of being over biked to change dramatically in just a couple of years.

Basically, a decent bike will get you out there having fun, it just depends on how fast you'll be.

Happy Feet

That's a really important point. I usually ride alone but when I am with someone else there is never a discussion on what bikes we should have. It's all about being out somewhere together, enjoying nature and trying not to die while doing so

prj71

What do you mean by "basic routes" and what constitutes "overbiking"?

Happy Feet

I think I described that in the post you quoted. Green/Blue's generally don't require modern tech.

I think though, we need to make clear that there is no negative connotation to overbiking in my books, except for the premise of new people being told or believing they need more than they do for the job required. If you own a FS bike it would be odd to buy a second less capable one just so you have the appropriate bike if you do less technical trails. Some do that, either with old school rigids or ssmtb but that's because they are seeking the experience of underbiking on purpose.

These are all shots of places where I see modern FS mtbs that really don't require such. Fine if you have one but not "needed".


















This requires FS

DMC707

i kinda fit that description myself. For the last 5 years i have ridden a 140mm Yeti 29er everywhere. Around 30 pounds but weight is dependenton tire choice, - its a bigger bike and total overkill for the trails i ride a lot in Oklahoma - but a little under gunned for pure lift assisted Colorado downhill runs (the big wheels flex a lot on a groomed bermed up course) but flex or not, its a blast on green and blue DH runs! And travel is a bit big for my home state trails, but its so comfortable for me i havent felt like downsizing until this year. I was over 300 lbs when i got the bike and the bigger travel machine was very nice and it has been a reliable friend.

Now i have lost some weight and am building another bike - The weight loss has me much happier with some of my strava times so i am building a 100mm bike again. - but im keeping the 140 bike. Total overkill for most of my needs, but a comfortable enough machine for my occasional trips out west to downhill country

FastJake

Then the advice for these people should be to find a nice used bike, not increase their budget. If they don't want to listen, that's their problem.

I would not recommend anyone buy a brand new $500 MTB. But there are plenty of great used ones in that range.