mattkime

i'm building a new road bike / commuter and i'm getting wheels made with Velocity A23 rims and white industry t11 hubs. i'm about 160lbs..... how many spokes do i need?

much advice says 32 spokes front and rear. seems like overkill to me. i'm tempted to to go 20 front radial and 24 rear. the only time i've needed truing with other wheelsets has been after accidents.

what do you think? am i crazy? am i tempting the god taco'd wheels?

thanks

Bob Dopolina 

For training I might go 24/28 just to make them bomb proof but you'd probably be fine with 20/24. I agree that 32/32 is overkill considering the rims.

FIVE ONE SIX

i'm 230 pounds and i used to use 32 spoke Mavic Open Pro wheels w/ Dura Ace hubs on my last bike, only because at the time they were the most bulletproof wheels that rolled great and didn't weigh a lot at the time. with newer technology though, i currently run 16/20 Ultegra wheels tubeless on my current EVO and they're fine with me still at 230 pounds. i know someone at the 255 pound range that uses the same wheels and he hasn't had to true them yet, as per Shimano they don't have a weight limit, and you can find them for $320 in the UK (opposed to the $750 they retail for in the states)...

whoever said you need 32 spoke wheels at 160 pounds at the current time doesn't know the first thing about riding or wheel building, even as far as training wheels go that's high at your weight...

mattkime

16 / 20 would be event better..... only reason why i didn't start with that number was that it sounds low.

Six jours

The first question that comes to my mind is "Why do you want to go with the minimum number of spokes on a commuter wheel?" I mean, what are you trying to accomplish? Is there some kind of bonus for making it to work three seconds faster?

At your weight, with those relatively strong rims, 20 or 24 spokes will probably work fine. The wheels will probably need rebuilding at shorter intervals than they would with 32 spokes, and things like pot holes will be somewhat more likely to cause problems, but that may not be an issue for you. So if it's really important to you to delete a few spokes, knock yourself out. What you hope to gain from that deletion, though, is utterly beyond me.

Bunyanderman

Go 32s, cheaper, stronger, and heavier to get better training.

zymphad

My wheels are 16/20 and they are still true after a year and one winter season. Going into 2nd winter and wheels still spinning great, no wobbles. And these are cheap RS11 wheels, 1850 grams.

FIVE ONE SIX

well, it IS low, but it's possible if you don't plan on destroying them on purpose. you can pretty much go with any combo you want, but a higher spoke count is really only necessary if you're a heavy rider that's worried about wheel flex.

when i was 180 pounds i hit a pothole at about 20mph with Mavic Aksium's and the rear tire blew out and the rear wheel hit the concrete hard, it developed a 3mm flat spot from that, but it didn't vibrate at all at speed (40mph downhills) and it was fine to keep using. so honestly, if you want something pretty bulletproof and want to spend less than $250 get a set of Mavic Aksiums through PBK (or wait till Merlin Cycles gets them back in at $172 for the pair)...

mihlbach

I mostly agree. A good wheel is more than spoke count. It's about achieving a balance of minimalism, durability, and stiffness-ride feel that is appropriate for the intended purpose. At 195 pounds, my own conclusion is that while 32 isn't needed for modern wheels, higher spoked wheels (e.g. 28) ride nicer than more typical lower counts. At you weight, using the components described, and given the type of usage described, I would go with a 24/28.


If you are devoted to the low spoke count idea, you can always recover some stiffness by avoided extremely butted spokes (eg Sapim laser), and using something a bit beefier (eg Sapim race). It won't really improve longevity, but will give the wheel a slightly stiffer feel.

OldsCOOL

My everyday bike is riding on 20/24's. No problems whatsoever. I ride hills and for speed/time with a declining bodyweight of 180 (will be 165 next spring).

Marcus_Ti

"Even better", in what way? Looks? Otherwise not.

In a trainer wheel you want durability. In a 16/20 wheel you break a spoke and you're walking home because the wheel probably won't clear your frame. In a 28/28 or 32/32 you break a spoke and can keep riding.

achoo

Why do bigger guys brag about riding on low-spoke-count wheels?

"They didn't break for me!"

That's like saying because you didn't kill yourself paragliding in a tornado it's a good idea.

Garfield Cat

Ask a pro wheel builder like PSIMET. Get on his web site and give him a call. Tell him you're doing your own build but just wanted an opinion.

Acquaspin

Just under 200#. 28/24 most of the time. 24/20 for the days i want to feel "fast". No problems with either. Rolling hills and no potholes, no wet road riding, and decent quality chip seal where I ride. 28/24 give me more peace of mind, guess that is why they stay on the bike all the time.

There's 1 mph speed difference between the wheel sets, which is the same speed difference gained if i stayed in the drops 80-90% of the ride instead of the usual 50%.

canam73

I have a set of A23/WI H2-H3/DT Comp wheels in 24/28 that I built 4 years ago as training wheels for 180# me. They have performed great.

But that said, I would not build them again. I liked them well enough that I built a cheaper set for a different bike using Kinlin XC279/Bitex/Sapim Race for the components also in 24/28. They have performed just as well and were lighter, cheaper and didn't have an initial brake pulse like the A23s. The rim was also notably stiffer when building although I don't know that I've ever noticed anything while riding.

I have since moved to Novatec for my most recent builds. In fact, I am probably going to build another set of trainers this winter and this would be my current choices:

New BHS rim: NEW! BHS C31w Clincher

Hubs: Hubs-F482SB-11 and Hubs-A291SB

Spokes: Probably Sapim Laser Front and NDS with Race on the DS and brass nipples everywhere in 28/20 or 32/24.

I like big, wide rims and that is the biggest I know of that is <500g. The ABG on that hub does a great job of ******ing cog bite for less money and weight than the TI on the White and it comes with good bearings. I believe in a well built wheel going 8 less on the front vs. rear is the best way to save weight if you have a mind to. And fwiw, I cross my spokes 2x or 3x everywhere (whatever gives me the best tangent), but I know now I'm treading on religious grounds in stating that.

deacon mark

I don't always get it because spokes are your friends. Low spoke counts are harder to true and get even and if they fail you are walking. Spokes do not weight that much and I would go 24 radial and 28 rear for those wheels. Personally I would skip the WI hubs that is overkill and you are paying a lot for some hubs that would be as good for half the price. I would go with some Novetec hubs. You might give Bdop DIY wheels a try and have someone build them for you. I just built a set 24 radial front, 28 2x rear and have maybe 750 miles trued up nice and even have not touched them . Never see a 32 spoke wheel as overkill it depends on the rim, a good 32 spoke wheel for a commuter would get you through many rough roads or should.

StanSeven

Carry the logic about looks one step further, why not ride a 30 lb steel anchor with 32 wide tires? Its for training.

I'm 165 and I ride/commute with 18/24 spoke wheels for seven years and haven't needed to touch them at all (Zipp 303s)

zymphad

Next year when I go with a Hutchinson + Son Archetype with Shimano Ultegra hubs, I'll go with 24/20, or something around that. I haven't been cycling long, but I've never had more than 24 spokes and I haven't had any issues. Maybe it's because I've been buying sturdy, reliable entry level Shimano wheels?

But I like to think it's because while companies have been reducing number of spokes, it's because they have improved flange designs and using stronger, superior spoke lacing patterns.

canam73

Show me your Ultegra 24/20 hubs.

zymphad

Also said around that. If not Ultegra, then I'll look for the next deal with something like that. Shimano RS series use 16/20, so hopefully can find a Archetype with Shimano hub with similar spoke count. I really like Shimano hubs, they're quiet. I can't even hear my RS11 spin, the wind, and road is louder than the freehub, it's wonderful.

canam73

Because I have 20/24 sub 1400g race wheels and in comparison my 1600-1700g training wheels (that cost ~$250) feel fine and are very durable. I have ridden a >30lb bike and it felt dead and clunky with no significant benefit.

canam73

Shimano does not sell the hubs they use in their OEM wheels as loose components. Currently, only the Dura Ace loose hubs go below 32 hole, and their lowest is 24 front and rear.

I prefer quiet hubs myself and have no problem with loose bearings. If Ultegra came drilled 28/24 I would have some.

zymphad

Forgot to ask, what truing stand do you use? Might be fun to attempt at wheel building. I see I can get some carbon 30mm deep, 23mm wide from the direct from factories for $250. May give it a shot next year. Seems it will be costly up front to start, need a dish stick too.

canam73

I have the Park Professional (~$200), but for occasional wheel building I would be happy just using and upside down bike and the brake calipers as reference. It's a bit tedious having to flip the wheels to get them centered/dished but if you're doing a single build a year or so it's fine. For truing I still just flip the bike as often as not.

Invest in a tension meter, a nipple driver and a really good set of individual spoke wrenches first.

StanSeven

My point is more about looks and wanting the bike to be a certain way. 20/24 light and aero wheels might make you a minute or two faster over an hour. But that's not why most people buy them.

The same goes for an 18 lb bike compared to a 30 lb one. Lighter wheels with fewer spoke count do feel faster to me. That's why I ride Zipp 303s every day instead of the old box rim wheels I got rid of