Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

Ridiculous saga... Paramount, Egypt and a Motobecane

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

Ridiculous saga... Paramount, Egypt and a Motobecane

Old 03-16-20, 03:33 PM
  #1  
52telecaster
ambulatory senior
Thread Starter
 
52telecaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Peoria Il
Posts: 3,389

Bikes: Bob Jackson World Tour, Falcon and lots of other bikes.

Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1053 Post(s)
Liked 435 Times in 253 Posts
Ridiculous saga... Paramount, Egypt and a Motobecane

I was planning on dropping my gf off at ohare wednesday and picking up the paramount i was buying in milwaukee. My gf couldnt go because of all the current turnoil. So i was going to go up earlier but the guy canceled the sale for some reason. Turns out right near there is an old motobecane grand touring in my size with the vitus 172 frameset. So i went up and picked it up for waaaay less money and figured anything i did with one i could do with the other. Plus it might be less likely stolen. Anyway, i got it home and got the crank off, the non drive side was very stubborn. Also someone had tightened the seatpost bolt into oblivion. I drilled it out and it looks like shell hold a post. Cant believe i can have fun with little stuff like this while the world spins crazy.

Frameset 1978 i think

Looks like somebody spun a bolt in there pretty good.

Straightened the slot a bit.
52telecaster is offline  
Likes For 52telecaster:
Old 03-16-20, 03:40 PM
  #2  
bikemig 
Senior Member
 
bikemig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Middle Earth (aka IA)
Posts: 17,424

Bikes: A bunch of old bikes and a few new ones

Mentioned: 140 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4677 Post(s)
Liked 1,088 Times in 734 Posts
So the Schwinn paramount beater project has been shelved and you're moving on to a Motobecane Grand Touring beater project. I like it.

If you're running out of projects I have the perfect Fuji Finest project for you,
bikemig is offline  
Likes For bikemig:
Old 03-16-20, 04:00 PM
  #3  
52telecaster
ambulatory senior
Thread Starter
 
52telecaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Peoria Il
Posts: 3,389

Bikes: Bob Jackson World Tour, Falcon and lots of other bikes.

Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1053 Post(s)
Liked 435 Times in 253 Posts
Originally Posted by bikemig View Post
So the Schwinn paramount beater project has been shelved and you're moving on to a Motobecane Grand Touring beater project. I like it.

If you're running out of projects I have the perfect Fuji Finest project for you,
i havnt got the guts to use plumbers helper yet.

By the way, i stopped ar Waterford and they gave me a tour!

Last edited by 52telecaster; 03-16-20 at 04:04 PM.
52telecaster is offline  
Likes For 52telecaster:
Old 03-16-20, 08:13 PM
  #4  
wrk101
Thrifty Bill
 
wrk101's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Mountains of Western NC
Posts: 22,599

Bikes: 86 Katakura Silk, 87 Prologue X2, 88 Cimarron LE, 1975 Sekai 4000 Professional, 73 Paramount, plus more

Mentioned: 79 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 903 Post(s)
Liked 306 Times in 229 Posts
If you don't have the drive side BB off, don't rule out Swiss threading. Same size as french, but left hand thread on the drive side.

I routinely pick up beater Motobecanes solely to pick up Japanese Swiss BB, Japanese forged french sized stems, and nice Suntour RDs. Different than the other french manufacturers, I have found Swiss BB on Motobecanes spanning many years, from the mid to late 1970s to 1982.
wrk101 is offline  
Likes For wrk101:
Old 03-17-20, 05:01 AM
  #5  
52telecaster
ambulatory senior
Thread Starter
 
52telecaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Peoria Il
Posts: 3,389

Bikes: Bob Jackson World Tour, Falcon and lots of other bikes.

Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1053 Post(s)
Liked 435 Times in 253 Posts
Originally Posted by wrk101 View Post
If you don't have the drive side BB off, don't rule out Swiss threading. Same size as french, but left hand thread on the drive side.

I routinely pick up beater Motobecanes solely to pick up Japanese Swiss BB, Japanese forged french sized stems, and nice Suntour RDs. Different than the other french manufacturers, I have found Swiss BB on Motobecanes spanning many years, from the mid to late 1970s to 1982.
i am going to eventually remove it as i would like a different crank axle and possibly a different bb altogether. Have u any experience with the vo threadless ones?
52telecaster is offline  
Old 03-17-20, 05:08 AM
  #6  
bikemig 
Senior Member
 
bikemig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Middle Earth (aka IA)
Posts: 17,424

Bikes: A bunch of old bikes and a few new ones

Mentioned: 140 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4677 Post(s)
Liked 1,088 Times in 734 Posts
The "older" Motobecanes were French threaded (70s and earlier I believe) but the "later" ones (80s?) were Swiss. I'm not sure of the dates when the switch was made but there are some threads here on that topic.

Do you need to get the fixed cup out? You can clean it up and ride it as is. This is a stronglight BB, right? Stronglight spindles are easy to find and the BBs are very good quality. I wouldn't be in a hurry to run an expensive threadless BB. Plus French and Swiss BBs are available new. French is a heck of a lot easier to find than Swiss though.

What kind of gearing do you want? Didn't this bike some with a stronglight 99 crank? That is a very good and very versatile 86 bcd crank. It can go as low as 28 so it makes a very good vintage compact crank. Chainrings are readily available at reasonable prices since so many of these were sold.

Bottom line is I wouldn't spend money on parts for this bike before figuring out whether the existing parts can do the job you want.
bikemig is offline  
Old 03-17-20, 05:39 AM
  #7  
52telecaster
ambulatory senior
Thread Starter
 
52telecaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Peoria Il
Posts: 3,389

Bikes: Bob Jackson World Tour, Falcon and lots of other bikes.

Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1053 Post(s)
Liked 435 Times in 253 Posts
Originally Posted by bikemig View Post
The "older" Motobecanes were French threaded (70s and earlier I believe) but the "later" ones (80s?) were Swiss. I'm not sure of the dates when the switch was made but there are some threads here on that topic.

Do you need to get the fixed cup out? You can clean it up and ride it as is. This is a stronglight BB, right? Stronglight spindles are easy to find and the BBs are very good quality. I wouldn't be in a hurry to run an expensive threadless BB. Plus French and Swiss BBs are available new. French is a heck of a lot easier to find than Swiss though.

What kind of gearing do you want? Didn't this bike some with a stronglight 99 crank? That is a very good and very versatile 86 bcd crank. It can go as low as 28 so it makes a very good vintage compact crank. Chainrings are readily available at reasonable prices since so many of these were sold.

Bottom line is I wouldn't spend money on parts for this bike before figuring out whether the existing parts can do the job you want.
great advice. It came with a motobecane branded 130mm bcd crank of asian origin. The bike is a 1978 if i am not mistaken. Seller thought 76 but the contrasting paint and crank say 78. Gearing wise i just want lower. I would use as is except i cant use my triplizer with the current crank and crank axle. Also it is one that uses fixing nuts instead of fixing bolts.
52telecaster is offline  
Old 03-17-20, 05:50 AM
  #8  
bikemig 
Senior Member
 
bikemig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Middle Earth (aka IA)
Posts: 17,424

Bikes: A bunch of old bikes and a few new ones

Mentioned: 140 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4677 Post(s)
Liked 1,088 Times in 734 Posts
Is it a stronglight BB? It likely is. Measure the spindle. I'll bet you can mount a stronglight 99 and then you have good gearing choices. You need a special puller for those but the later ones used a standard puller. You can put up a WTB thread or keep your eyes peeled for a Peugeot UO 9 or 10. Those came with stronglight 99s. You can harvest the crank and flip the bike. I recently picked up a UO 9 for $49 so I could harvest the crank and flip the bike.
bikemig is offline  
Likes For bikemig:
Old 03-17-20, 05:55 AM
  #9  
52telecaster
ambulatory senior
Thread Starter
 
52telecaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Peoria Il
Posts: 3,389

Bikes: Bob Jackson World Tour, Falcon and lots of other bikes.

Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1053 Post(s)
Liked 435 Times in 253 Posts
Originally Posted by bikemig View Post
Is it a stronglight BB? It likely is. Measure the spindle. I'll bet you can mount a stronglight 99 and then you have good gearing choices. You need a special puller for those but the later ones used a standard puller. You can put up a WTB thread or keep your eyes peeled for a Peugeot UO 9 or 10. Those came with stronglight 99s. You can harvest the crank and flip the bike. I recently picked up a UO 9 for $49 so I could harvest the crank and flip the bike.
i have an old t.a. i may try on it. It would give me lots of gearing choices. I am slo trying to suss out the seat post size. Im guessing 26.0 but i havent got the seat tube completely round yet.
52telecaster is offline  
Old 03-17-20, 06:02 AM
  #10  
52telecaster
ambulatory senior
Thread Starter
 
52telecaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Peoria Il
Posts: 3,389

Bikes: Bob Jackson World Tour, Falcon and lots of other bikes.

Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1053 Post(s)
Liked 435 Times in 253 Posts
After removing dirt, it is a tange bottom bracket and it looks like the chainline might be ok with my t.a. 50.4 crank. Ive got a few rings for it but if i decide to use it i will buy the removal tool. There is one at the coop but tools go missing there some times.
52telecaster is offline  
Old 03-17-20, 06:25 AM
  #11  
wrk101
Thrifty Bill
 
wrk101's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Mountains of Western NC
Posts: 22,599

Bikes: 86 Katakura Silk, 87 Prologue X2, 88 Cimarron LE, 1975 Sekai 4000 Professional, 73 Paramount, plus more

Mentioned: 79 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 903 Post(s)
Liked 306 Times in 229 Posts
Originally Posted by bikemig View Post
The "older" Motobecanes were French threaded (70s and earlier I believe) but the "later" ones (80s?) were Swiss. .

In other French brands, yes, absolutely. In the case of Motobecane, not in my experience. I have had several 1977 Motobecanes, all had Swisss BB. And I have had later 1970s, all the way up to 1982 with Swiss BBs.


Just one guy's experience, having owned a couple of dozen Motobecanes.
wrk101 is offline  
Likes For wrk101:
Old 03-17-20, 06:30 AM
  #12  
wrk101
Thrifty Bill
 
wrk101's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Mountains of Western NC
Posts: 22,599

Bikes: 86 Katakura Silk, 87 Prologue X2, 88 Cimarron LE, 1975 Sekai 4000 Professional, 73 Paramount, plus more

Mentioned: 79 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 903 Post(s)
Liked 306 Times in 229 Posts
Nice thing on the older TAs they used 23mm puller, which is more common (and more affordable) than the Stronglight version.

The "trick" is to get one of the older Park pullers. Some had two separate threaded sections. Those would be "normal" 22mm threads, and TA 23mm threads. All the CCP-1 model will have the dual head, and SOME of the CCP-2 will have dual head.
wrk101 is offline  
Likes For wrk101:
Old 03-17-20, 06:39 AM
  #13  
52telecaster
ambulatory senior
Thread Starter
 
52telecaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Peoria Il
Posts: 3,389

Bikes: Bob Jackson World Tour, Falcon and lots of other bikes.

Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1053 Post(s)
Liked 435 Times in 253 Posts
Originally Posted by wrk101 View Post
Nice thing on the older TAs they used 23mm puller, which is more common (and more affordable) than the Stronglight version.

The "trick" is to get one of the older Park pullers. Some had two separate threaded sections. Those would be "normal" 22mm threads, and TA 23mm threads. All the CCP-1 model will have the dual head, and SOME of the CCP-2 will have dual head.
they have the park one at my coop. Im looking at one on ebay that will do stronglight and t.a..
52telecaster is offline  
Old 03-17-20, 06:42 AM
  #14  
bikemig 
Senior Member
 
bikemig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Middle Earth (aka IA)
Posts: 17,424

Bikes: A bunch of old bikes and a few new ones

Mentioned: 140 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4677 Post(s)
Liked 1,088 Times in 734 Posts
Originally Posted by wrk101 View Post
In other French brands, yes, absolutely. In the case of Motobecane, not in my experience. I have had several 1977 Motobecanes, all had Swisss BB. And I have had later 1970s, all the way up to 1982 with Swiss BBs.


Just one guy's experience, having owned a couple of dozen Motobecanes.
It looks like I'm wrong on the dates but I believe that Motobecane did use French at one time but then broke with the other French companies to start using Swiss sometime in the 70s. This is from the Wiki entry:

"Unlike most French makers of the era, Motobecane used Swiss thread bottom brackets for most models."

I read somewhere on BF that the early Motos used French but that could have been a mistake. Certainly Motos used swiss more broadly than did other French manufacturers and it is in theory a better design.
bikemig is offline  
Likes For bikemig:
Old 03-17-20, 06:46 AM
  #15  
bikemig 
Senior Member
 
bikemig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Middle Earth (aka IA)
Posts: 17,424

Bikes: A bunch of old bikes and a few new ones

Mentioned: 140 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4677 Post(s)
Liked 1,088 Times in 734 Posts
Originally Posted by 52telecaster View Post
After removing dirt, it is a tange bottom bracket and it looks like the chainline might be ok with my t.a. 50.4 crank. Ive got a few rings for it but if i decide to use it i will buy the removal tool. There is one at the coop but tools go missing there some times.
What are the gear ratios on the TA? What are you looking for? TA chain rings are available (at least for cyclotourist via eBay) but they tend to be more expensive than Stronglight rings.
bikemig is offline  
Old 03-17-20, 06:54 AM
  #16  
52telecaster
ambulatory senior
Thread Starter
 
52telecaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Peoria Il
Posts: 3,389

Bikes: Bob Jackson World Tour, Falcon and lots of other bikes.

Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1053 Post(s)
Liked 435 Times in 253 Posts
Originally Posted by bikemig View Post
What are the gear ratios on the TA? What are you looking for? TA chain rings are available (at least for cyclotourist via eBay) but they tend to be more expensive than Stronglight rings.
ive got 26, 30, 40 and 46. I can certainly come up with something there. I'll make a compact or super compact double.
52telecaster is offline  
Old 03-17-20, 06:58 AM
  #17  
The Golden Boy 
Extraordinary Magnitude
 
The Golden Boy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Waukesha WI
Posts: 12,397

Bikes: 1978 Trek TX700; 1978/79 Trek 736; 1984 Specialized Stumpjumper Sport; 1984 Schwinn Voyageur SP; 1985 Trek 620; 1985 Trek 720; 1986 Trek 400 Elance; 1987 Schwinn High Sierra; 1990 Miyata 1000LT

Mentioned: 76 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2108 Post(s)
Liked 503 Times in 323 Posts
Originally Posted by 52telecaster View Post
By the way, i stopped ar Waterford and they gave me a tour!
I live like 18 miles from there and still havenít visited.
__________________
*Recipient of the 2006 Time Magazine "Person Of The Year" Award*

Commence to jiggliní huh?!?!

"But hey, always love to hear from opinionated amateurs." -says some guy to Mr. Marshall.
The Golden Boy is offline  
Likes For The Golden Boy:
Old 03-17-20, 07:03 AM
  #18  
52telecaster
ambulatory senior
Thread Starter
 
52telecaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Peoria Il
Posts: 3,389

Bikes: Bob Jackson World Tour, Falcon and lots of other bikes.

Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1053 Post(s)
Liked 435 Times in 253 Posts
Originally Posted by The Golden Boy View Post
I live like 18 miles from there and still havenít visited.
it was quite cool. I briefly met richard schwinn and found out they make milwaukee bikes.
52telecaster is offline  
Old 03-17-20, 07:13 AM
  #19  
abshipp 
Senior Member
 
abshipp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Rockford IL
Posts: 2,395

Bikes: 1976 Motobecane Grand Jubile, 1977 Schwinn Super Le Tour 12.2 Chrome, 1981 Trek 716, 2014 Canfield Nimble 9

Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1840 Post(s)
Liked 1,172 Times in 511 Posts
Originally Posted by wrk101 View Post
In other French brands, yes, absolutely. In the case of Motobecane, not in my experience. I have had several 1977 Motobecanes, all had Swisss BB. And I have had later 1970s, all the way up to 1982 with Swiss BBs.


Just one guy's experience, having owned a couple of dozen Motobecanes.
Originally Posted by bikemig View Post
It looks like I'm wrong on the dates but I believe that Motobecane did use French at one time but then broke with the other French companies to start using Swiss sometime in the 70s. This is from the Wiki entry:

"Unlike most French makers of the era, Motobecane used Swiss thread bottom brackets for most models."

I read somewhere on BF that the early Motos used French but that could have been a mistake. Certainly Motos used swiss more broadly than did other French manufacturers and it is in theory a better design.
Another data point:

My 76 Grand Jubile is right hand thread on both sides. I assume it's French since I've never heard of an Italian threaded Moto.
abshipp is offline  
Likes For abshipp:
Old 03-17-20, 07:17 AM
  #20  
52telecaster
ambulatory senior
Thread Starter
 
52telecaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Peoria Il
Posts: 3,389

Bikes: Bob Jackson World Tour, Falcon and lots of other bikes.

Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1053 Post(s)
Liked 435 Times in 253 Posts
Originally Posted by abshipp View Post
Another data point:

My 76 Grand Jubile is right hand thread on both sides. I assume it's French since I've never heard of an Italian threaded Moto.
isnt it great how consistently inconsistent they were.
52telecaster is offline  
Old 03-17-20, 07:33 AM
  #21  
abshipp 
Senior Member
 
abshipp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Rockford IL
Posts: 2,395

Bikes: 1976 Motobecane Grand Jubile, 1977 Schwinn Super Le Tour 12.2 Chrome, 1981 Trek 716, 2014 Canfield Nimble 9

Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1840 Post(s)
Liked 1,172 Times in 511 Posts
Originally Posted by 52telecaster View Post
isnt it great how consistently inconsistent they were.
You could use that word to describe it, I suppose
abshipp is offline  
Old 03-17-20, 07:43 AM
  #22  
JohnDThompson 
Old fart
 
JohnDThompson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Appleton WI
Posts: 21,957

Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.

Mentioned: 127 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2346 Post(s)
Liked 768 Times in 512 Posts
Originally Posted by wrk101 View Post
If you don't have the drive side BB off, don't rule out Swiss threading. Same size as french, but left hand thread on the drive side.
+1 this.

Are there any markings on the cup? Sometimes, thread spec is indicated in an arcane manner:


Source: Sutherland's 4th Edition
JohnDThompson is offline  
Old 03-17-20, 08:18 AM
  #23  
bikemig 
Senior Member
 
bikemig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Middle Earth (aka IA)
Posts: 17,424

Bikes: A bunch of old bikes and a few new ones

Mentioned: 140 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4677 Post(s)
Liked 1,088 Times in 734 Posts
Originally Posted by 52telecaster View Post
ive got 26, 30, 40 and 46. I can certainly come up with something there. I'll make a compact or super compact double.
The 46 is an outer and the others inners? A 46/30 or a 46/26 is a good set up. I'm running a 46/36 on my Motobecane Grand Record and I've been looking around for a 32 or a 30 inner since my campy NR RD doesn't have the capacity to handle much more than that. If you're running a long cage RD, you can run a 46/26 and that will give you good gear ratios.

bikemig is offline  
Likes For bikemig:
Old 03-17-20, 08:21 AM
  #24  
52telecaster
ambulatory senior
Thread Starter
 
52telecaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Peoria Il
Posts: 3,389

Bikes: Bob Jackson World Tour, Falcon and lots of other bikes.

Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1053 Post(s)
Liked 435 Times in 253 Posts
Originally Posted by JohnDThompson View Post
+1 this.

Are there any markings on the cup? Sometimes, thread spec is indicated in an arcane manner:


Source: Sutherland's 4th Edition
one side says tange 35 p1 (adjustable side)
other side says sakae 35p1(fixed)
No s1
52telecaster is offline  
Old 03-17-20, 09:00 AM
  #25  
52telecaster
ambulatory senior
Thread Starter
 
52telecaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Peoria Il
Posts: 3,389

Bikes: Bob Jackson World Tour, Falcon and lots of other bikes.

Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1053 Post(s)
Liked 435 Times in 253 Posts
Should i assume right hand threads based on the sakae cup marking?
52telecaster is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.