Tips for Going Lighter?
01-03-12, 09:12 PM
#52
Vain, But Lacking Talent
Not to mention, getting prepared food all the time gets pretty expensive. Cooking can really save you money. Especially if you use a MSR Whisperlite Internationale and gasoline to cook with...a bottle fills up for under a dollar and lasts one person almost a week in my experience.
Sometimes I think it comes down to what I've previously brought on trips as well. Freeze dried meals are alright, but pricey and something I usually reserve for backpacking trips. But if I REALLY want to cook a meal, I generally just don't have enough at my disposal on the road to really do it right. I don't think making shrimp pasta with a lemon garlic sauce or a nice chicken marsala is entirely doable at a primitive campsite. This is the sort of thing I ENJOY cooking when I'm at home. So I'd rather just not make good food a priority on the road.
And, worse comes to worse, I can make a simple alcohol or wood burner stove on the road and throw a can on beans on top of that if it's a particularly chilly night and I just have to have a good hot meal. This even gives me the freedom just ditch my "stove/pot" rather than carry it.
01-03-12, 09:45 PM
#53
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I guess you can survive on cold Chef Boyardee, but I'll always choose to carry 15 ounces worth of cooking gear to have hot Chef Boyardee instead!
(Well, or 30 ounces depending which stove I'm using. Either way, I love my hot meals and will never go back to the "dark ages" before I got a stove...)
(Well, or 30 ounces depending which stove I'm using. Either way, I love my hot meals and will never go back to the "dark ages" before I got a stove...)
01-03-12, 11:15 PM
#54
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keeping front wheel down-have to disagree, never had that problem even on 15% hills with 25-30lbs on rear only (but I see your point theoretically)
better weight distribution--this certainly does makes sense.
01-03-12, 11:16 PM
#55
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traditional bike: nominal measures 30/70 weight distribution front/rear
01-04-12, 04:02 AM
#56
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I guess this will vary with the individual. Would everyone be comfortable with my rig? I am sure many would not. Me, I found no reduction in comfort as I reduced weight carried in a progression of steps from 45-22 pounds. In fact if anything I was more comfortable. The weight reduction was really a plus while riding. It remains to be seen whether a further reduction to around 15 pounds of gear will impact comfort any, but since much of the reduction is in the racks and panniers I doubt it. I suspect the only reason that would be the case would be if I have inadequate gear to stay warm.
I never really understood why folks find a two person tent more comfortable than a one person one when they are in a mummy bag any way. I guess maybe people do more stuff in their tents than I do. If I am in the tent I am probably either sleeping, reading, or doing journal entries. None of which require much space. The only activity that I find slightly awkward in a small one man tent is rolling up the sleeping pad, but that is only a very minor issue and often I do that out on a picnic table rather than in the tent anyway.
For most choices I actually find the lack of stuff to be liberating. Part of the attraction to touring is a simpler life style and simplifying the gear list by eliminating non essentials only helps that. If you find you really miss something that was left behind, there is usually the option of buying a replacement along the way or having one mailed from home.
I can see where I would carry more if working along the way as you did.
BTW, like Jude I find that for many choices lighter does not mean more expensive. Even though I splurged on a few items in recent years, I still have one of the cheaper rigs around especially if you include the bike (something similar can easily be found for $200).
I never really understood why folks find a two person tent more comfortable than a one person one when they are in a mummy bag any way. I guess maybe people do more stuff in their tents than I do. If I am in the tent I am probably either sleeping, reading, or doing journal entries. None of which require much space. The only activity that I find slightly awkward in a small one man tent is rolling up the sleeping pad, but that is only a very minor issue and often I do that out on a picnic table rather than in the tent anyway.
For most choices I actually find the lack of stuff to be liberating. Part of the attraction to touring is a simpler life style and simplifying the gear list by eliminating non essentials only helps that. If you find you really miss something that was left behind, there is usually the option of buying a replacement along the way or having one mailed from home.
I can see where I would carry more if working along the way as you did.
BTW, like Jude I find that for many choices lighter does not mean more expensive. Even though I splurged on a few items in recent years, I still have one of the cheaper rigs around especially if you include the bike (something similar can easily be found for $200).
I mention the bivvy because they don't get much of a mention in threads like this. They are lightweight, easy to erect and take down, and can be used almost everywhere.
01-04-12, 10:29 AM
#57
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I've been working on going lighter and wrote an article about what I have been planning and doing.
01-04-12, 11:15 AM
#58
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Edit:
It looks as if the Flash Series is quickly going "discontinued/out of stock" for the various sizes. That might just mean they are getting ready to release modified versions, but if you like the existing Flash 18 you might want to grab one while you can.
Last edited by staehpj1; 01-04-12 at 11:47 AM.
01-04-12, 12:09 PM
#59
Senior Member
I agree, really good article to read. About the light daypacks, my wife got one last year and I initially scoffed at it, figuring it would tear or rip if looked at sideways, but while you cant sit on it on rough rocks like my old cordura one that is bombproof, you cant deny how wonderfully compact it is. Especially neat if you use it instead of a similar drysack anyway (but then even if you took it on its own, it is so darn light) My wifes is an Outdoor Research one I think.
back to your article, well written and I agree with your take on spending (splurge here and there, but utilitarian stuff being fine at med prices). Being a thin guy, I err a bit more on the warmer clothing side, especially for sleeping, as it can make a diff for a good nights sleep or not, but this of course depends on the time of year and as you say, we are all different so one just has to go with what works for you.
let us know how it goes in feb march.
back to your article, well written and I agree with your take on spending (splurge here and there, but utilitarian stuff being fine at med prices). Being a thin guy, I err a bit more on the warmer clothing side, especially for sleeping, as it can make a diff for a good nights sleep or not, but this of course depends on the time of year and as you say, we are all different so one just has to go with what works for you.
let us know how it goes in feb march.
01-05-12, 01:23 PM
#60
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I guess you can survive on cold Chef Boyardee, but I'll always choose to carry 15 ounces worth of cooking gear to have hot Chef Boyardee instead!
(Well, or 30 ounces depending which stove I'm using. Either way, I love my hot meals and will never go back to the "dark ages" before I got a stove...)
(Well, or 30 ounces depending which stove I'm using. Either way, I love my hot meals and will never go back to the "dark ages" before I got a stove...)
Even 64 oz. of cooking gear is insignificant compared to the weight of me, the bike, the racks and the bags. About 1.5% by conservative calculation. Even less when you factor in all the rest of the gear.
01-06-12, 06:15 AM
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What is life without luxuries, though? Sometimes, having a full set of heavy cooking gear is the luxury you choose. And sometimes, having 20 lbs of stuff instead of 40 is the luxury you choose.
01-06-12, 07:18 AM
#62
Senior Member
Yes, but if you take this approach on everything , plus tend to take things "just in case", you can pretty quickly end up with double the gear weight you could have had. Which is fine, and probably comfortable, but not light.
What is life without luxuries, though?
What is life without luxuries, though?
01-06-12, 10:47 AM
#64
Senior Member
ya, one person takes the bottom of the clay baker, another takes the lid, then theres the wok, Joe takes the iron frying pan and Alice takes the Cuisinart (but Siu-Min puts the 50 ft extension inside the wok for easier packing)
01-06-12, 10:57 AM
#65
Vain, But Lacking Talent
For examples of wood stoves, check here: https://zenstoves.net/Wood.htm
I've made a largish one in the past with a couple of paint cans, but about dead middle of the page, you see the trimmed coffe can stove meant to be used with a full sized pot. If you opted for cold food at camps, and then a week or two later really wanted a stove, you could make a similar one from a regular can that you could sit other cans on top of. All you would need is a left over can (from the cold beans you ate last week) and a good knife or a very skillfully used can opener. And if you really wanted to boil water for ramen, buy a large beer, enjoy beer, then make a pot.
I've made a largish one in the past with a couple of paint cans, but about dead middle of the page, you see the trimmed coffe can stove meant to be used with a full sized pot. If you opted for cold food at camps, and then a week or two later really wanted a stove, you could make a similar one from a regular can that you could sit other cans on top of. All you would need is a left over can (from the cold beans you ate last week) and a good knife or a very skillfully used can opener. And if you really wanted to boil water for ramen, buy a large beer, enjoy beer, then make a pot.
01-06-12, 10:57 AM
#66
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i always notice when i have my bike pannier-free that my front wheel pops up on steep hills. doesn't have to be very steep at all when i am starting off from a standstill. perhaps pulling up on my handlebars is just a bad habit caused from using front panniers. i dunno. definitely has to do with accelerating on the hill, though. at constant velocity it would not matter. when i'm not touring, i'm in a city, and cities always have a lot of stop and go.
01-06-12, 11:16 AM
#67
Vain, But Lacking Talent
I've been working on going lighter and wrote an article about what I have been planning and doing.
That tour was a failure because of the poorly chose route, but the gear was great.
I'm actually waiting on a shipment of fabric to start work on a frame bag for my two steel frame bikes to try and eliminate the backpack as a primary load carrier. You, Nun and I should go on a tour sometime! We'll post our bikes and give the fully loaded folks all sorts of fits.
01-06-12, 12:08 PM
#68
Senior Member
and yes, I agree that you and Nun should indeed do this just to get the reactions. I think all bikes are neat, so its great to see people using whatever bike if common sense is thrown in and it works.
01-06-12, 12:24 PM
#69
Senior Member
i am rather surprised. in the past i have found to access my rear panniers i pretty much always have to get off the bike to really get into the bags effectively. never quite had enough endurance during that twist-and-bend, especially compared to the ease of just bending over the handlebars to access the front panniers.
i always notice when i have my bike pannier-free that my front wheel pops up on steep hills. doesn't have to be very steep at all when i am starting off from a standstill. perhaps pulling up on my handlebars is just a bad habit caused from using front panniers. i dunno. definitely has to do with accelerating on the hill, though. at constant velocity it would not matter. when i'm not touring, i'm in a city, and cities always have a lot of stop and go.
i always notice when i have my bike pannier-free that my front wheel pops up on steep hills. doesn't have to be very steep at all when i am starting off from a standstill. perhaps pulling up on my handlebars is just a bad habit caused from using front panniers. i dunno. definitely has to do with accelerating on the hill, though. at constant velocity it would not matter. when i'm not touring, i'm in a city, and cities always have a lot of stop and go.
steep hills, really hasnt been a problem and I ride 15% stuff or so often, but then I just instinctively stand and go forward on hoods or bar ends anyway. The one time I recall how crazy a steep climb was for wheel popping was in Vermont, Burke Mountain. Friends and I went up a semiprivate road to a fire-tower type tower lookout and there were some sections that were extremely difficult to get going again if stopped without wheely-ing (but I was on a very low geared mtn bike)
https://www.northeastcycling.com/Mtn_Climbs.html
01-07-12, 09:32 PM
#70
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about getting to bags, I guess cuz I've always leaned a bike against something to get into front panniers, and with rears I can lean bike against me to get into them, so I've never really thought of easy "on bike" access to panniers. I have often kept my rain gear in a front pannier, but if Im putting on rain pants and rain booties, Im off the bike anyway. But hey, whatever works.
steep hills, really hasnt been a problem and I ride 15% stuff or so often, but then I just instinctively stand and go forward on hoods or bar ends anyway. The one time I recall how crazy a steep climb was for wheel popping was in Vermont, Burke Mountain. Friends and I went up a semiprivate road to a fire-tower type tower lookout and there were some sections that were extremely difficult to get going again if stopped without wheely-ing (but I was on a very low geared mtn bike)
https://www.northeastcycling.com/Mtn_Climbs.html
steep hills, really hasnt been a problem and I ride 15% stuff or so often, but then I just instinctively stand and go forward on hoods or bar ends anyway. The one time I recall how crazy a steep climb was for wheel popping was in Vermont, Burke Mountain. Friends and I went up a semiprivate road to a fire-tower type tower lookout and there were some sections that were extremely difficult to get going again if stopped without wheely-ing (but I was on a very low geared mtn bike)
https://www.northeastcycling.com/Mtn_Climbs.html
Those climbs look nasty in the best way. Makes me want to tour NE US. After my PCH bike and PCT hike these next several months I might have to find myself out there for some fall leaves & steep hills.
01-11-12, 09:38 PM
#71
Senior Member
Hey, just read this article all the way through. I really liked it! I'm a huge fan of the Eureka tent as well. You can get a light stuff sack and really shrink the size of that tent. You just have to store the poles separately. Here's a shot of the tent on my old carbon bike (poles were stored in a backpack):
FYI I've been using the mini-Trangia stove and pot set, but recently replace the stove with a TI one from Evernew and have been looking at using a 16 floz Evernew mug for cooking as I find I mostly heat water for tea, couscous, oatmeal, soups and beef stews. The Evernew stove is most efficient when it's used without a pot stand and the lower set of holes produce a flame that doesn't lap outside the base of the TI mug. Just less than 0.5 oz of denatured alcohol will bring 2 cups of water almost to the boil. There's no need to heat it anymore as it's nearly too hot to drink.
My mug, stove, cup , windscreen, BIC lighter, cloth and scrub pad make a compact package weighing 7oz and there is room inside for stock cubes and seasonings. I take along 8 floz of alcohol in a squirt bottle and a TI spork that weigh 10oz. If I have a fire I just put the cup on the coals to boil water.
Last edited by nun; 01-11-12 at 09:51 PM.
01-12-12, 12:32 AM
#72
Vain, But Lacking Talent
That setup looks great, Nun. I do have an alcohol stove I've put together for backpacking trips.
I've since modified it with a slightly more efficient redbull stove and a different clear bottle to keep up with fuel easier. The candles in wax paper are firestarters for camp fires and the like. I took it on a couple of bike trips, but just got tired of pulling out a stove, going through the hassle of setting it all up and boing water for packaged oatmeal and nasty powdered hot chocolate. I might as well eat a cold powerbar at that point and get a hot meal in town. I'm just not willing to lug around good food and proper cooking gear I guess. When car camping, I do cook a mean breakfast. The lightweight stove is worth it for backpacking, though. No town to get a hot meal in. Even if I were on the bike and the next town was two days away, I'd still rather eat cold and get a good meal later than mess with it every night and morning.
I've since modified it with a slightly more efficient redbull stove and a different clear bottle to keep up with fuel easier. The candles in wax paper are firestarters for camp fires and the like. I took it on a couple of bike trips, but just got tired of pulling out a stove, going through the hassle of setting it all up and boing water for packaged oatmeal and nasty powdered hot chocolate. I might as well eat a cold powerbar at that point and get a hot meal in town. I'm just not willing to lug around good food and proper cooking gear I guess. When car camping, I do cook a mean breakfast. The lightweight stove is worth it for backpacking, though. No town to get a hot meal in. Even if I were on the bike and the next town was two days away, I'd still rather eat cold and get a good meal later than mess with it every night and morning.
01-12-12, 01:23 PM
#73
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or buy 2 beers and make a pot and the stove too... I messed around with all sorts of alcohol can stove designs and they all seemed to work pretty well to boil up some water. Pretty tough to mess them up actually so it's something you could do on the road with just a pocket knife or multi-tool. I did buy the one I use now off e-bay though since it was made out of an alum. beer bottle and is quite a bit stronger than a can. I just wish you could still get the 24oz heineken keg cans. The Fosters can pot works fine and fits real nice in a Nalgine bottle with the top cut off, but the keg cans were much tougher.
01-12-12, 02:10 PM
#74
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you know I have never understood the front pannier only thing-for me why make your front end heavy which affects steering quickness? I guess because I am a light fellow having weight only at the rear isnt an issue for wheels, but more importantly, I love going around corners and so want the front end of my bike to feel as light as possible. I ride my bikes regularly with a bunch of stuff on the back and really do prefer how steering still feels nice and light, and havent ever had a feeling that it was overly unbalanced towards the rear or steered strangely.
I guess what it comes down to is that if I am going to go with only two panniers and such, the big plus is that the bike still feels mostly like it did unloaded, at least for steering anyway, which is a big part of the enjoyment of riding lightly loaded.
I can see the fact that weight overall would be better distributed front/rear in terms of the wheels bearing weight, but being only 140lbs, I can have 30lbs of stuff on the back and still be close to an average male rider.
I guess what it comes down to is that if I am going to go with only two panniers and such, the big plus is that the bike still feels mostly like it did unloaded, at least for steering anyway, which is a big part of the enjoyment of riding lightly loaded.
I can see the fact that weight overall would be better distributed front/rear in terms of the wheels bearing weight, but being only 140lbs, I can have 30lbs of stuff on the back and still be close to an average male rider.
I've got a CrossCheck that I wouldn't put a 25# rear pannier load alone on, I would put it on the LHT. The CC develops a shimmy, the LHT doesn't.
01-12-12, 03:03 PM
#75
It's true, man.
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Once I'd gotten as minimal as I was gonna get on the Big 4, I attacked my clothes.
Last tour, the temps ranged from 22F to over 100F plus a few all day rain days, so I had to stay versatile while staying light.
What I wound up with was
2 pair of bike shorts,
1 pr, loose, nylon pull on shorts for swimming, sleeping and laundry day wear, or to pull over my bike shorts where wearing those alone might've been looked at askance,
1 pr convertible (zip leg) REI nylon pants, knee warmers,
2 pair ankle high merino socks,
1 pair knee high merino socks,
1 wool merino baselayer,
1 cycle jersey,
1 ultralight merino t shirt,
arm warmers,
neck gaiter,
merino beanie,
Showers Pass touring jacket,
nylon glove shells with sild liners.
On cold days I could layer the merino tops/arm warmers under the jacket and be pretty comfy up top. Leg warmers under the nylon pants with warm socks was adequate, and the beanie and neck gaiter pulled up over my face/ears did the trick for my head. I'd like to have done something better for my hands, but that's for next trip.
My total load-out weight in two panniers and a bar bag was right around 27 lbs, with a 3.8 lb tent, two bottles of water and 3 days of dry food. Not ultralight, but not bad and I was pretty comnortable along the way.
Last tour, the temps ranged from 22F to over 100F plus a few all day rain days, so I had to stay versatile while staying light.
What I wound up with was
2 pair of bike shorts,
1 pr, loose, nylon pull on shorts for swimming, sleeping and laundry day wear, or to pull over my bike shorts where wearing those alone might've been looked at askance,
1 pr convertible (zip leg) REI nylon pants, knee warmers,
2 pair ankle high merino socks,
1 pair knee high merino socks,
1 wool merino baselayer,
1 cycle jersey,
1 ultralight merino t shirt,
arm warmers,
neck gaiter,
merino beanie,
Showers Pass touring jacket,
nylon glove shells with sild liners.
On cold days I could layer the merino tops/arm warmers under the jacket and be pretty comfy up top. Leg warmers under the nylon pants with warm socks was adequate, and the beanie and neck gaiter pulled up over my face/ears did the trick for my head. I'd like to have done something better for my hands, but that's for next trip.
My total load-out weight in two panniers and a bar bag was right around 27 lbs, with a 3.8 lb tent, two bottles of water and 3 days of dry food. Not ultralight, but not bad and I was pretty comnortable along the way.