Polaris OBark

jadmt

when each brand of chain requires its own special temp.....

Jay Turberville

The Molten website says to turn off you crockpot when the wax hits 200F. But they don't give any dire warnings about higher temperatures other than going higher than 200F doesn't help anything. For instance: "Remember that there is no reason to exceed wax temperature of 200°F (93°C)."

I can imagine that at higher temperatures you might start to distill off some oils or sovlents in the paraffin or even cause some oxidation. But I can't imagine that it would be have a big effect unless maybe it's left at high heat for a very long time. The wax should melt well before it hits 200F anyway. So it makes sense that there's no need to get it any hotter. Also, the crock pots have a lot of thermal mass. So one chain probably wont drop the temperature of the wax much. This isn't rocket science.

Getting to the OP's question, they recommend a 1 1/2 qt to 2 qt Crock Pot/slow cooker.

One Wheel

The pot I use is a 1.5 quart I paid $20 for on ebay. Holds 1+ lb of wax. I heard somewhere that you want the chain to warm up thoroughly, so I put the chain on top of the cold wax and then turn the pot on.

cyccommute 

Flammability isn’t much of a concern with wax, especially since the flash point is up around 400°F. Candles can develop large pools of molten wax next to an open flame…that’s kind of the way that candles work…and not burst into flame. Molten Speed Wax’s cautionary statement seems more like a CYA than anything else. Double boilers have been used to make candles for eons (some even do the melting in direct flame) and the temperature is much higher. Granted, the wax doesn’t need to be any hotter than the melting point of around 120°F. Any hotter and spills are much more dangerous in terms of burning the humans handling it.

As to the “performance reasons”, those claims are totally bogus. Nothing is going to happen to wax at 200°F to change the character of the wax. Essentially, there are no “oils or solvents” in the wax that could be distilled off. Gulf Wax is food grade that is edible and meant to be used to seal foods. It’s very pure.

Outrider1

At first I thought you were joking until I reread.

SoSmellyAir

Heh, I remember inspiring this in another thread.

According to Crock pot, both high and low "stabilize" at 209 *F.

Slow Cooker Cooking Tips | Crockpot® (crock-pot.com)

13ollocks

Chain waxing is an all-day process for me, although the hands-on time is short. I turn on the pot at low, which takes a few hours to melt the wax (plain canning wax plus unwanted candles etc), give the chain a brush to get loose crap off, then coil it up and lower into the wax in a small basket. Leave it in there for 30-60 min, while I'm doing other stuff, giving the basket an up/down jiggle when I remember. Pull the chain, hang it up to cool and put in the next one. I usually do 3 chains at a time - my actual input is maybe 15 min for the whole process.

davidad

What do you think thee high priced "bike" lubrications are made of, gold?

cyccommute 

The bike lubricants are’t all that high priced but, more importantly, they aren’t as thick as chainsaw oils. Phil’s Tenacious Oil is that thick but it’s damned messy.

bbbean 

That is SUCH a helpful answer!

If I ask about using sausage vs beef in my spaghetti recipe, would you post about how you quit eating italian food and tell me how to make tacos?

Polaris OBark

oops.

kcjc

I use a 7-quart oval crockpot that my wife doesn't want in the house anymore.

Polaris OBark

Used motor oil.

Biker Pete 

Whelp, I found a 2 quart crock-pot for $5.13 at my local thrift shop. Used the Silca system: new Shimano chain de-greased with their chain cleaner, rinsed with water, dried for a while, then immersed in their ‘secret blend’ wax (has tungsten disulfide in it, among other things) at 200 degrees Fahrenheit for about an hour with occasional swishing, cooled, and now drying on a sheet of plastic. Cleaned the rest of the drivetrain. First ride with a waxed chain tomorrow, woo-hoo!

jadmt

be prepared for a life changing experience......

Biker Pete 

Ha! I’m not expecting that much! But I do like the Silca ‘system’. After the initial investment in wax, the downstream costs should be minimal: when a re-waxing needs to be done, clean the chain in boiling water and re-wax using the same batch of wax. Should last me for several years I expect. I will get a second chain to streamline the process. I ride about 2500 miles per year. I have the luxury of not having to ride in wet weather.

SoSmellyAir

Biker Pete : There is no need to use any water (at any temperature). Doing so just increases the likelihood of rust on the chain. Best use one to two rounds of odorless mineral spirits to degrease, air dry, then into the wax.

After waxing I hang my chain over the open crock pot to let any molten wax drip back into the Crock Pot. You may want to do the same given your use of the $$$ Silca wax.

cyccommute 

While I agree that there is no need for a boiling water wash, there is also no need for the odorless mineral spirits step for subsequent waxing. The wax doesn’t get contaminated like oil based lubricants do. On subsequent waxings, the wax is the solvent and is all that is needed to clean the chain. Just drop it in molten wax and be done with it.

I just reviewed the “Silca system” video on Silca’s wax webpage and it shares the same problems with all the other “systems” for chain cleaning out there which I will address below. It has one major problem that I’m going to address before going any further. The presenter says to put the mineral spirits in an ultrasonic bath at 65°C (150°F). This is dumb and dangerous! The flash point of mineral spirits ranges from 38°C (100°F) to 60°C (140°F). It would be bad enough to heat a flammable material to over its flash point but ultrasonication agitates the solvent which is an efficient way to make more vapor. Mineral spirits is only slightly toxic so that’s less of a concern than making a very efficient fuel/air ratio. In other words, it’s a great way to set your house on fire! Don’t ultrasonicate solvents at all and especially not above their flash point!!!

It is overly complicated with unnecessary steps that are done for no reason. Mineral spirits is a degreaser and a damned good one! There is no need for any step past doing a mineral spirits wash. You can do 2 washes if you like but there really is no need. If you really have to do two steps, put the water based degreaser first, followed by a water rinse, followed by an alcohol chase, and then polish it off with mineral spirits. The reason for that particular order is to do any water based steps first because water and mineral spirits are incompatible. Water based degreasers have surfactants…soap to regular people…in them that changes the chemistry of water so that water can dissolve some water insoluble compounds. The amount of nonpolar material that can dissolve in a water based degreaser is limited to the carrying capacity of the surfactant in the water and is also limited by the amount of surfactant in the water. Diluting it reduces the carrying capacity.

That limited carrying capacity of a nonpolar compound also means that far more of the surfactant has to be used to do the same job. Think dish soap in a sink. At some point the bubbles go away which means that the soap..again, a surfactant…has glommed onto all the oil that it can and it needs more soap and fresh water. The volume of mineral spirits needed to do the same job is a tiny fraction of that needed for a water based degreaser .

The surfactant also has to be removed. If not removed the surfactant will sit on the metal doing what surfactants do…grabbing onto nonpolar compounds. Alcohol will remove some of it but it would be best to use clean water to flush which means more volume of cleaners needed…usually many times that of the initial degreaser mixture to remove it.

I’ll get into the procedure now. He says that the chain needs to be soaked overnight in mineral spirits. That is completely unnecessary. Degreasing with mineral spirits takes minutes especially if you agitate it. Put it in a bottle…I use old Gatorade bottles…shake it hard for until your arm gets tired, about 30 seconds, and take the chain out. That’s all that is necessary. No ultrasonic bath needed nor heat needed…see above. The chain could go from there into the wax melt directly, although I would probably leave the chain in a sunny spot for about an hour so as to keep from putting flammable material into a hot wax melt. The wax melts above the flash point of mineral spirits and going above the flash point of any solvent is to be avoided.

He states at about 1:20 in the video that “mineral spirits speeds up the rust process if there is any water present”. That’s news to this chemist’s ears. I’d like to know the mechanism for this accelerated rusting in mineral spirits. If the worry is about moisture, it can be removed with a water soluble solvent like acetone or alcohol. But, no, mineral spirits won’t make your chain rust.

He also mentions “degassing” several times. There is zero need to degas anything in chain cleaning. There are, occasionally, reasons to degas solvents but simple chain cleaning isn’t one of them. Ultrasonic cleaning vibrates the object being cleaned tor remove any stubborn particles that might be on the object but even that is unnecessary if you have a clean object to begin with. A new chain is clean and an old waxed chain isn’t dirty enough to worry about. Oiled chains are a different matter entirely.

Overall, the “Silca system” is the same as all the other procedures out there…unnecessarily complicated with a lot of useless work. A good procedure should use as few steps as necessary and each step should have some justification for doing it. Chain cleaning can be done in a single step, be it a new chain or a gunky, old winter chain. And when the chain needs to be rewaxed, it doesn’t need any further cleaning. Don’t over think it.

Finally…I know this is going on for far too long…it’s a chain! Chains are cheap and chains will wear out. There’s no need to spend an inordinate amount of time maintaining a chain nor any need to spend an inordinate amount of money on a chain. $40 for a pound of wax is a silly amount of money to spend. Silca can claim that their wax is all secret and will make you a winner of the Tour de France just by using it but they are blowing smoke up your nether regions. A one pound block of Gulf Wax at Safeway costs $7 and will do 99.9% of what Silca’s wax will do.

Biker Pete 

These are the two videos I watched explaining the Silca ‘system’.



Yes, I get it, there is some hocus pocus involved and they want to sell their products. But I do like what I heard. After the initial investment, it seems like it will be reasonably cost effective over the next several years. I ride about 2500 miles per year and I now have two chains. The maintenance work I anticipate to be quite simple. Plus, I do enjoy working on the bike in addition to riding it every day. I live in SW Florida so there is a lot of sunshine and warm weather. I don’t ride in wet weather.

bbbean 

They aren't THAT cheap, nor are the chainrings, cassettes, and pulley wheels they interact with. They are also arguably the single most important part of your bike transferring energy from you to the road.

If you aren't performance oriented, use budget chains, and are content with your current component life, then you're right - waxing is an expensive hassle. but for those of us who do chase performance, use high end components, and ant to get the longest possible life out of those components, then waxing is an easy and cost effective way to get performance and reduce wear.

Biker Pete 

Impressions from first ride (9 mile loop in 30 minutes)…….waxed new chain is very quiet during pedaling and during shifting. Kinda nice! Still some excess wax removal needed after this first ride.

SoSmellyAir

I think we may have different definitions of "contamination". I agree that external contaminants do not penetrate into the wax once it has solidified. However, the pre-wax slosh in OMS does remove something from a used waxed chain. I am not sure what exactly is removed, but it is dark gray and settles as a silt on the bottom of the OMS jar after a day or so, and some portion of the settled material can be picked up by a strong magnet. It is not the color of the Gulf wax I use (without any additives because Gulf Wax alone seems to be working just fine).

Now of course whatever comes off the used wax chain in OMS would most likely also come off in paraffin. But the pre-rewaxing slosh in OMS keeps the actual wax clean.

tiger1964 

Wow, that's pretty cool. I happened to have a spare Thermopen, which is accurate, and probably overkill for this application.

jadmt

leave it for a few more rides. the little wax dust is kind of cool looking and when you decide to wipe it off it almost disappears like magic.