About to straighten out my derailleur hanger. Any advice?
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I did buy the older (cheaper?) Park Tool and it's waiting for me. I do want to shoot some video of the process but life is getting in the way.
Rest assured, I'll update this thread when I attempt the straightening.
Thanks again.
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I had a cx race bike that was mis-shifting recently (replaceable aluminum hanger on cf frame). I complained about it to my bud in the parking lot at a race. He took my bike and said, "I'll be right back". He came back three minutes later with it fixed. He had the tool in his car. So why is this thread still going?
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#54
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He has the alignment tool. From the photos the hanger looks to have been pulled back and twisted in, which is more than I'd expect the tool to cope with, so I suggested getting it in something like the right orientation before setting it with the tool. There's no way the tool could manage to close the dropout, if that is indeed required. Even if it just needs pulling out, the tool is acting on the end of the hanger, but the main distortion appears to be at the top of the hanger - perhaps not a crucial difference, but it could end up S-shaped rather than flat.
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Sometimes if it is something large I am flattening (like the bottom of a skillet) and the "dish" (curvature) is very local to the center and not evenly distributed, I will use a ring support (backing plate to push on) of smaller diameter, to keep things local, otherwise I may end up with the 3D equivalent of an S bend.
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One assumes that everyone in this thread suggesting straightening the hanger with something other than a hanger straightening tool has never straightened a hanger with a hanger straightening tool.
I bent the hell out of steel Lemond hanger in a crash - bent it back to straight and perfect in 2 minutes with the alignment tool.
What some of you are forgetting is that the tool also protects the shape of the threaded portion of the hanger, preventing it from ovalizing or kinking.
I bent the hell out of steel Lemond hanger in a crash - bent it back to straight and perfect in 2 minutes with the alignment tool.
What some of you are forgetting is that the tool also protects the shape of the threaded portion of the hanger, preventing it from ovalizing or kinking.
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#57
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One assumes that everyone in this thread suggesting straightening the hanger with something other than a hanger straightening tool has never straightened a hanger with a hanger straightening tool.
I bent the hell out of steel Lemond hanger in a crash - bent it back to straight and perfect in 2 minutes with the alignment tool.
What some of you are forgetting is that the tool also protects the shape of the threaded portion of the hanger, preventing it from ovalizing or kinking.
I bent the hell out of steel Lemond hanger in a crash - bent it back to straight and perfect in 2 minutes with the alignment tool.
What some of you are forgetting is that the tool also protects the shape of the threaded portion of the hanger, preventing it from ovalizing or kinking.
#58
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It was especially nice to work in a place with both a press, and a lathe, where in minutes I could fab a press tool to press on the outer race of an 82mm ball bearing inside a wheel knuckle. Not a service garage, but a tier-one auto supplier, I worked in engineering, but it had a full machine shop to fab prototypes. And vehicle lifts. And a solvent parts washer with spray nozzle for cleaning bike parts.
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Why would it have washers? Should you be offering an opinion about something you have no experience at all?
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This thread seems to be another example of the BF tendency to make what's simple into something complex.
Steel tabs are straightened every day with moderate force applied via the threaded hole. Anything will serve, though the tool made for the job combines leverage with a gauge to get it square.
Concerns over things like work hardening are overblown, because the low carbon steels used ---- typically 1018, 4130, or similar ---- are not prone to work hardening, and, in any case a single bend like the one shown wouldn't do that.
Straightening the hanger with a wheel securely mounted, (which is SOP to use the gauge) supports the dropout and ensures that bending is localized to the hanger.
Also, it wouldn't matter, even if you were somehow to end up not getting it perfect, because the ONLY thing that matters is that it's square to the plane of the wheel.
So, hoping Nike doesn't sue me, my advice is to cut the BS and "Just do it".
Steel tabs are straightened every day with moderate force applied via the threaded hole. Anything will serve, though the tool made for the job combines leverage with a gauge to get it square.
Concerns over things like work hardening are overblown, because the low carbon steels used ---- typically 1018, 4130, or similar ---- are not prone to work hardening, and, in any case a single bend like the one shown wouldn't do that.
Straightening the hanger with a wheel securely mounted, (which is SOP to use the gauge) supports the dropout and ensures that bending is localized to the hanger.
Also, it wouldn't matter, even if you were somehow to end up not getting it perfect, because the ONLY thing that matters is that it's square to the plane of the wheel.
So, hoping Nike doesn't sue me, my advice is to cut the BS and "Just do it".
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Isn't the bike fixed YET??
#62
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Originally Posted by Duragrouch
You may be right. I've never seen one. Ideally, it would have different size washers to adjust to where the bend is, unless they bend pretty reliably in one spot.
You may be right. I've never seen one. Ideally, it would have different size washers to adjust to where the bend is, unless they bend pretty reliably in one spot.
#63
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This thread seems to be another example of the BF tendency to make what's simple into something complex.
Steel tabs are straightened every day with moderate force applied via the threaded hole. Anything will serve, though the tool made for the job combines leverage with a gauge to get it square.
Concerns over things like work hardening are overblown, because the low carbon steels used ---- typically 1018, 4130, or similar ---- are not prone to work hardening, and, in any case a single bend like the one shown wouldn't do that.
Straightening the hanger with a wheel securely mounted, (which is SOP to use the gauge) supports the dropout and ensures that bending is localized to the hanger.
Also, it wouldn't matter, even if you were somehow to end up not getting it perfect, because the ONLY thing that matters is that it's square to the plane of the wheel.
So, hoping Nike doesn't sue me, my advice is to cut the BS and "Just do it".
Steel tabs are straightened every day with moderate force applied via the threaded hole. Anything will serve, though the tool made for the job combines leverage with a gauge to get it square.
Concerns over things like work hardening are overblown, because the low carbon steels used ---- typically 1018, 4130, or similar ---- are not prone to work hardening, and, in any case a single bend like the one shown wouldn't do that.
Straightening the hanger with a wheel securely mounted, (which is SOP to use the gauge) supports the dropout and ensures that bending is localized to the hanger.
Also, it wouldn't matter, even if you were somehow to end up not getting it perfect, because the ONLY thing that matters is that it's square to the plane of the wheel.
So, hoping Nike doesn't sue me, my advice is to cut the BS and "Just do it".
High-alloy steels, such as "stainless" steels, same thing, but additional issue: All you have to do is get them heated above the hardening temperature, and they will harden simply by air cooling, they don't need to be quenched, as the alloys increase the "hardenability". If you've ever drilled through a piece of stainless, didn't keep it cool, saw just the tiniest spark at the drilling point, and suddenly it's hard as glass, you need to go find a tungsten carbide-tipped or boron steel drill to finish the job.
By the way, non-magnetic stainless steel, when you cold work it, becomes magnetic (will attract a magnet, not is magnetic itself), increasing with the amount of cold work. Check the magnetic attraction on a tri-ply pot (that does not have an intended magnetic bottom for induction burner use), at the bottom, at the bend to the sides, and at the rim.
Last edited by Duragrouch; 01-31-24 at 02:22 AM.
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I chose my words carefully when I said "not prone to work hardening", and I stand by that. Yes, all steels work harden, and people like myself that work with steel are aware of and deal with it accordingly. But it's a question of degree, with different grades work hardening more or less than others. In any case, a single gentle bend like this, in the steels used in that application would not be problematic.
Education is good, but you have to apply it to the task at hand, and throwing out tons of non-relevant info isn't constructive.
BTW piano wire is NOT a low carbon grade. Typically it's 1080, which is a high carbon grade. And as you note, is worked greatly by multiple passes to bring it to that strength.
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#65
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Yes, and NO.
I chose my words carefully when I said "not prone to work hardening", and I stand by that. Yes, all steels work harden, and people like myself that work with steel are aware of and deal with it accordingly. But it's a question of degree, with different grades work hardening more or less than others. In any case, a single gentle bend like this, in the steels used in that application would not be problematic.
Education is good, but you have to apply it to the task at hand, and throwing out tons of non-relevant info isn't constructive.
BTW piano wire is NOT a low carbon grade. Typically it's 1080, which is a high carbon grade. And as you note, is worked greatly by multiple passes to bring it to that strength.
I chose my words carefully when I said "not prone to work hardening", and I stand by that. Yes, all steels work harden, and people like myself that work with steel are aware of and deal with it accordingly. But it's a question of degree, with different grades work hardening more or less than others. In any case, a single gentle bend like this, in the steels used in that application would not be problematic.
Education is good, but you have to apply it to the task at hand, and throwing out tons of non-relevant info isn't constructive.
BTW piano wire is NOT a low carbon grade. Typically it's 1080, which is a high carbon grade. And as you note, is worked greatly by multiple passes to bring it to that strength.
Last edited by Duragrouch; 01-31-24 at 05:16 AM.
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john m flores
JUST BEND THE S.O.B. ALREADY.
JUST BEND THE S.O.B. ALREADY.
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Umm... I don't like to be an a-hole and throw education out there... but all steels are susceptible to work hardening. It's why low-carbon and no-alloy steel can make piano wire that is well over 300ksi strength, about 10X the steel's original strength, purely due to the work hardening of drawing the metal multiple times through a die. It's why hard swords and knives were possible before alloy steels. Now, that derailleur hanger may not have gotten work hardened at the bend if not too severe. But all steels, in fact most metals, will work harden. Brass work hardens, which is why, firearm cartridge cases, after shooting and reloading several times (which involves "resizing" the case in a die), need to have the case necks annealed, so they maintain sufficient ductility for a proper bullet crimp.
High-alloy steels, such as "stainless" steels, same thing, but additional issue: All you have to do is get them heated above the hardening temperature, and they will harden simply by air cooling, they don't need to be quenched, as the alloys increase the "hardenability". If you've ever drilled through a piece of stainless, didn't keep it cool, saw just the tiniest spark at the drilling point, and suddenly it's hard as glass, you need to go find a tungsten carbide-tipped or boron steel drill to finish the job.
High-alloy steels, such as "stainless" steels, same thing, but additional issue: All you have to do is get them heated above the hardening temperature, and they will harden simply by air cooling, they don't need to be quenched, as the alloys increase the "hardenability". If you've ever drilled through a piece of stainless, didn't keep it cool, saw just the tiniest spark at the drilling point, and suddenly it's hard as glass, you need to go find a tungsten carbide-tipped or boron steel drill to finish the job.
As for this statement - swords weren't created by work hardening iron, they were created by making steel by alloying the iron with carbon and then heat treating that high carbon steel.
All metals work harden - that's how you break them by bending back and forth enough times. But otherwise can be very different - you anneal brass by quenching it - the opposite of steel.
Last edited by Kontact; 01-31-24 at 07:59 AM.
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#74
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You didn't answer my question: What washers were you talking about?
As for this statement - swords weren't created by work hardening iron, they were created by making steel by alloying the iron with carbon and then heat treating that high carbon steel.
All metals work harden - that's how you break them by bending back and forth enough times. But otherwise can be very different - you anneal brass by quenching it - the opposite of steel.
As for this statement - swords weren't created by work hardening iron, they were created by making steel by alloying the iron with carbon and then heat treating that high carbon steel.
All metals work harden - that's how you break them by bending back and forth enough times. But otherwise can be very different - you anneal brass by quenching it - the opposite of steel.
Swords: From wiki: "Early Iron Age swords were significantly different from later steel swords. They were work-hardened, rather than quench-hardened."
Brass: Yes, I know; Place the cartridge standing up in a pan of water, depth up to where you don't want any annealing, heat the top (mouth) of the cartridge with a propane torch to temperature, then tip it over into the water. Watched my dad do it hundreds of times when I was young. I did everything else with regard to reloading match ammo, just never that, dad handled the torch while I did other processes. When I competed when older, the government loaned me a rifle and gave me all the ammo.
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Washers: Non-existent ones. I suggested, did not say for certain, that it might be ideal to adjust the radius at which the tool functioned (with different diameter washers in contact with the derailleur hanger), in case derailleur hangers bent at different places. I have not seen the tool. Others (perhaps you, I don't recall) here have said such washers, at different diameters, are not necessary. I accept their statement......
No washer is needed because the wheel's mounting faces serves that purpose.
Also consider the nature of the force applied. It's not straight across as would be with a press, but a twisting force applied as a torque, which helps move the hanger in an arc.
In any case, those familiar with bike repair know that this job is very common and easily done (in steel) with no complications.
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An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
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