Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Mountain Biking
Reload this Page >

MTB without suspension ?

Notices
Mountain Biking Mountain biking is one of the fastest growing sports in the world. Check out this forum to discuss the latest tips, tricks, gear and equipment in the world of mountain biking.

MTB without suspension ?

Old 11-23-19, 12:26 PM
  #51  
Happy Feet
Senior Member
 
Happy Feet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Left Coast, Canada
Posts: 4,108
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1656 Post(s)
Liked 612 Times in 357 Posts
Because they are made for flat bar postures. It's like complaining that you can't put 26" wheels on a 29r because the geometry makes the BB too low. Uh.. Yep. They don't make em to take 26" wheels and, for the most part, they don't make em to take drop bars.
Happy Feet is offline  
Old 11-23-19, 04:06 PM
  #52  
Kapusta
Cyclochondriac
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 3,186
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1365 Post(s)
Liked 525 Times in 329 Posts
Originally Posted by Clem von Jones View Post
I agree that frame sizing is a good place to start, but it doesn't solve the problem of ALL frames having excessive reach and stack for their size
No, actually it DOES solve the problem. Just go down a size and the reach and stack will be what you are looking for.

Also, to say that a frame has excessive stack and reach for its size is a nonsensical statement. Stack and reach IS the size. It is like saying someone is tall for their height. If you find that all larges have a to big a stack and a reach, that means you should look at a medium.

What you are looking for is already out there you are just too set in your misinformation to know what to look for.

Last edited by Kapusta; 11-23-19 at 05:09 PM.
Kapusta is offline  
Old 11-23-19, 10:34 PM
  #53  
Clem von Jones
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 637
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 144 Post(s)
Liked 11 Times in 9 Posts
Originally Posted by Happy Feet View Post
It's funny, wanting the world to build all their bikes to suit ones momentary whimsy rather than just thoughtfully choosing the bike for you.

If one has unique and specific tastes, get a frame built. It's not rocket surgery and far less expensive than buying successive new bikes made for other purposes to be unhappy with.

I also don't believe riding rigid makes for more skilled riding.. it just feels that way because you have to commit 100% effort into doing sub optimal routes compared to what one can do with suspension. People are doing things now that would have been inconceivable when rigid mtb was "the" thing.

Yes, you can drive a 1960's Lotus around an F1 track but that doesn't mean you are keeping up with the 2000's McLarens.
The reason I like drop bars is primarily for physical comfort, and to keep my center of gravity low. It's not to develop handling skills or go fast. I ride at a leisurely pace but over extended periods of time.
Clem von Jones is offline  
Old 11-24-19, 07:19 AM
  #54  
HerrKaLeun
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 1,733

Bikes: Giant Toughroad SLR1 and Motobecane Sturgis NX

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 814 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 135 Times in 113 Posts
If you go rigid, go with one designed to be rigid.

If you want lightweight, the Giant Toughroad is really great. I have mine with 30mm rim and 2.15" tire on front and it is very smooth.

Or look at the Jones bike, the ultimate bike designed NOT for suspension. Fits 3.25" in rear and up to fattire in front if you want to be flexible.
HerrKaLeun is offline  
Old 11-25-19, 02:06 PM
  #55  
prj71
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,859
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1032 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 43 Times in 36 Posts
Originally Posted by Clem von Jones View Post
Look, it's very simple. I want to CHOOSE how I set up my own bike. I don't want frame designers to eliminate my ability to choose.
Sounds like you are a candidate for a custom bike maker.

The manufacturers design and make bikes for the masses. Not just what one person thinks they want or need.

Here's a start. Prepare to lay down some $$$ and get put on the waiting list.

https://waltworks.com/
prj71 is offline  
Old 12-01-19, 08:06 PM
  #56  
tallbikeman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Yolo County, West Sacramento CA
Posts: 226

Bikes: Modified 26 inch frame Schwinn Varsity with 700c wheels and 10 speed cassette hub. Ryan Vanguard recumbent. 67cm 27"x1 1/4" Schwinn Sports Tourer from the 1980's. 1980's 68cm Nishiki Sebring with 700c aero wheels, 30 speeds, drop bar bicycle.

Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Liked 44 Times in 33 Posts
MTB frame design

The seat posts way out like Mr. Clem von Jones's Scott 29er make me cringe. The forces at work on that seatpost tube are magnified if the frame isn't triangulated by supporting seat stays near the top of the seatpost tube. This comment is for non suspended MTB's. Suspension helps to soften the forces at work on a long seat post out of a frame. I have seen rigid steel frames fail due to the seatpost loadings on the seatpost clamp or the tube itself. That said a MTB should have adequate clearance over the top bar to limit the frame from highsiding the rider on narrow trails with a steep side angle. If you get hung up on a top tube before your feet hit the ground you can fall. Tough choices but I like to see less seatpost extension out of frames. Having raced MTB's here in Northern California I saw all the early attempts to put drop bars on mountain bicycles and race them. For MTB racing the drop bars did not work out. Ease up on the harshness of the off roading and you get gravel roading and drop bars work great for that. I checked out the Jones website and that is a very cool bicycle. Big fat tires really don't need suspension unless you are racing and maybe not even then. I really like their ability to traverse sand, loose gravel, and other very hard to deal with riding surfaces and be comfortable at the same time.
tallbikeman is offline  
Old 12-01-19, 11:46 PM
  #57  
Kapusta
Cyclochondriac
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 3,186
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1365 Post(s)
Liked 525 Times in 329 Posts
Originally Posted by tallbikeman View Post
The seat posts way out like Mr. Clem von Jones's Scott 29er make me cringe. The forces at work on that seatpost tube are magnified if the frame isn't triangulated by supporting seat stays near the top of the seatpost tube.
Maybe things were different back in the day, but the exposed seat on that bike is not unusual at all by modern mtb standards and is a non-issue. Even on a HT. With the move towards longer and longer dropper posts, that amount of extension is expected and planned for with modern bikes. You just have to make sure you have enough post insertion.
Kapusta is offline  
Old 12-01-19, 11:47 PM
  #58  
Kapusta
Cyclochondriac
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 3,186
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1365 Post(s)
Liked 525 Times in 329 Posts
Double post
Kapusta is offline  
Old 12-01-19, 11:57 PM
  #59  
tallbikeman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Yolo County, West Sacramento CA
Posts: 226

Bikes: Modified 26 inch frame Schwinn Varsity with 700c wheels and 10 speed cassette hub. Ryan Vanguard recumbent. 67cm 27"x1 1/4" Schwinn Sports Tourer from the 1980's. 1980's 68cm Nishiki Sebring with 700c aero wheels, 30 speeds, drop bar bicycle.

Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Liked 44 Times in 33 Posts
Originally Posted by Kapusta View Post
Maybe thinks were different back in the day, but the exposed seat on that bike is not unusual at all by modern mtb standards and is a non-issue. With the move towards longer and longer dropper posts, that amount of extension is expected and planned for with modern bikes. You just have to make sure you have enough post insertion.
I don't have experience with the modern style of MTB and these ultra long seatposts. I have broken a couple of steel frames with ultra long seatposts. The frames did not break where I expected but more toward the bottom bracket. The frames I broke were heavy duty and designed for longer seatposts. I've never broken a frame using short seatpost lengths. I'm over 220lbs and this may also explain why I worry about this type of design.
tallbikeman is offline  
Old 12-02-19, 12:03 AM
  #60  
Kapusta
Cyclochondriac
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 3,186
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1365 Post(s)
Liked 525 Times in 329 Posts
Originally Posted by tallbikeman View Post
I don't have experience with the modern style of MTB and these ultra long seatposts. I have broken a couple of steel frames with ultra long seatposts. The frames did not break where I expected but more toward the bottom bracket. The frames I broke were heavy duty and designed for longer seatposts. I've never broken a frame using short seatpost lengths. I'm over 220lbs and this may also explain why I worry about this type of design.
That is interesting that they broke further down near the bb. Not what I would have guessed.
Kapusta is offline  
Old 12-04-19, 06:27 AM
  #61  
colombo357
Senior Member
 
colombo357's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Murica
Posts: 2,274
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 117 Post(s)
Liked 20 Times in 9 Posts
Originally Posted by Brian25 View Post
I was a bike store owner for over 12 years. I have been mountain biking since the mid 80's. before 1990 there were no shocks, and guess what; everyone at that time were perfectly happy with rigid forks.
Yea MTB was real popular in the 80s. Everyone, all 5 of those people, loved their rigid forks.

What happened to your "bike store"?
colombo357 is offline  
Old 12-04-19, 07:24 AM
  #62  
Brian25
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 720

Bikes: Road, mountain and track bikes and tandems.

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 282 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 17 Times in 14 Posts
Originally Posted by colombo357 View Post
Yea MTB was real popular in the 80s. Everyone, all 5 of those people, loved their rigid forks.

What happened to your "bike store"?
I tend to loose motivation to respond to sarcastic trolls
Brian25 is offline  
Old 12-04-19, 08:41 AM
  #63  
prj71
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,859
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1032 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 43 Times in 36 Posts
Sarcastic or truthful?
prj71 is offline  
Old 12-04-19, 09:57 AM
  #64  
Happy Feet
Senior Member
 
Happy Feet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Left Coast, Canada
Posts: 4,108
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1656 Post(s)
Liked 612 Times in 357 Posts
Originally Posted by Clem von Jones View Post
The reason I like drop bars is primarily for physical comfort, and to keep my center of gravity low. It's not to develop handling skills or go fast. I ride at a leisurely pace but over extended periods of time.
That is fine, nothing wrong with wanting drops. Just realize that many of the 29rs are built for flats and that you have to do a little investigating to find or create the right geometry to convert (or find one with drops already). You can't get mad at the industry that the conversion isn't a default proposition. It's the same with 26"mtb drop bar conversions. Doable, but you have to think about it.
Happy Feet is offline  
Old 12-04-19, 12:18 PM
  #65  
Kapusta
Cyclochondriac
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 3,186
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1365 Post(s)
Liked 525 Times in 329 Posts
Originally Posted by colombo357 View Post
What happened to your "bike store"?
Same thing that happens to most bike shop owners: he retired early with $millions.
Kapusta is offline  
Likes For Kapusta:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.