andr0id

It's a Sturmey Archer 3 speed hub that's been sitting for 30 years. The hubs all gummed up. That will be all that's wrong with it other than needing bearing repacked, fresh cables and rubber.

sunburst

A bike shop offered my ex $100 for a gorgeous mid-80s Bianchi that I had purchased new. I was furious that someone would try to take advantage of her lack of bike knowledge. Fortunately, she didn't bite. She probably paid the shop more than that for new tires and tuneup.

I've helped some of my neighbors and friends with their old bikes and they sometimes say I should start a business, but in reality, none of them would be willing to pay anywhere near what it actually cost to bring these bikes back to life. They get my labor for free, and at times, that really adds up. I've stopped offering to help people find old bikes too, because I'm compelled to clean it up, and make it safe, and even that takes a lot of time.

Old Fat Guy

You know this how?

Is it a coaster brake SA hub? Are you sure it's gummed and that's all? Is it rusty(it's in a Detroit suburb, chances are), New tires, tubes, bearings in the headset, bottom bracket repack? Complete wash and rub out with wax/compound? New grips, seat? New brake pads, cables, casings?

How much would you charge for that?

It's tough to get $125 for a refurbished Breeze in a college town. The parts and labor are worth more. One of the LBS's charges $20/pc for 26" S-5 tires. yes, I know they can be had cheaper mail order, but...

Rabid Koala

"I am just waiting for her to decide on a convenient time for me to show her how to fix her own bike. And I am so pleased to have saved a bike from an uncertain fate for the one who appreciates it the most."

For me, this is one of the most satisfying parts of being a bike junkie. I have taken beaten to crap bikes and spent a little time, always free of charge, to make them functional again. I love teaching people how to do simple repairs and adjustments themselves, and love even more putting an old bike back on the road again.

wrk101

+1 Sounds like $200 in service to a bike that when road ready would sell around here for $100. The only way to cost effectively get a bike like that one serviced is to do your own work and buy parts via the internet.

gerv 

I don't know where this is coming from... but it strikes me as being way out in left field. I volunteer at a bike co-op and my observation is quite the opposite. Basically most volunteers I see work so that the co-op can survive... that means taking the best bikes and parts and allowing the co-op to sell them. If it only sells the unwanted "crap", as you describe, it will soon be out of business.

bikemeister

It's a labor of love.
One's gotta keep their perspective correct. I couldn't repair bikes for a living, and I won't repair HVAC for fun. The latter is my occupation, the former is a hobby. I can and will do things that a for-profit LBS won't do. That'll make them fume. (Oh well, I'd get a little perturbed if somebody went around fixing air conditioners for free because he dug it!)
No bicycle is impossible to fix, IMHO, unless the frame is bent, broken, or rusted through. Sure, it might not be economically feasible to fix, as it would take more time than it is worth. But when it's a labor of love, the cost isn't a factor. The time isn't a factor. Making a profit isn't a factor. It's saving something from the dump that isn't made anymore, returning something to use that has been neglected or abused, and/or seeing the look on the owners face as they take the bike away.
You know, this discussion is making me want to go get that old Sears 3-speed and save it from oblivion!

roseskunk

Wait, is this C&V?!? I have more in nearly all my bikes than I could ever re-coop, Brooks saddles, new alloys and tires on all my Raleigh Sports, way too much in my International and Competition, etc. Would I trade any of them for a new Chinese made bike? Never. What kind of bike are you going to get for $300.00 that's going to be better than a vintage Schwinn, especially when the owner is the original owner and the bike has sentimental value for her? Hell, I just spend 500.00 to rebuild my old Concord Pro-1. Hardly worth it to anyone but me.

bikemeister

Just wait until the Chinese stop selling to us because the dollar tanks, and there won't BE any "new" bikes to buy! (Heck, that'll apply to just about everyhting the way things are!) Then, all the old clunkers and vintage bikes that are rideable will sell like red meat tacos!

Blue Order

Cuba has some experience with that situation...

American C&V car enthusiasts salivate when they think about all that old Detroit steel just waiting to return to the U.S. when we finally normalize relations with Cuba.

Blue Order

Oh, and the LBS owner is a jerk. At least she knows what her neighbor is now.

Bruce Enns

"Wait, is this C&V?!? I have more in nearly all my bikes than I could ever re-coop, Brooks saddles, new alloys and tires on all my Raleigh Sports, way too much in my International and Competition, etc. Would I trade any of them for a new Chinese made bike? Never. What kind of bike are you going to get for $300.00 that's going to be better than a vintage Schwinn, especially when the owner is the original owner and the bike has sentimental value for her? Hell, I just spend 500.00 to rebuild my old Concord Pro-1. Hardly worth it to anyone but me."

Thank you very much

noglider 

The guy at the shop may have said that it's not worth fixing, and the woman may have heard that it can't be fixed. It's easy to misunderstand that, especially if the guy isn't articulate and the woman doesn't know about bikes.

Then again, asking her for a bike, WHICH CAN'T BE FIXED, is crossing the line, so never mind.

DavidW56

Thank you for all the well-considered responses! I see I left out some essential information, and other parts need to be re-emphasized:

1) First, I agree with everybody who has responded. The bike is likely not economically feasible to be repaired by the LBS. Neither LBS is obligated to repair her bike nor tell her where it can be repaired. I heard only her side of the story. She very well may have misunderstood her neighbor when he said it "couldn't" be repaired. He may very well said "it can't be repaired for a reasonable price". And he might have said "I'll just take it off your hands if you want". And neither LBS tried to perform the repairs with an outrageous price tag attached. All true.

2) But I'll wager most of our vintage bikes are not "economically feasible" to be repaired by the LBS. That's why most of us do our own work.

3) It's also why most of us who re-sell bikes we have refurbished never get back the investment of time and money, because most of us have day jobs that pay far more than what we could charge per hour for labor, and so the lost opportunity cost is much more than the market will bear. As Bikemeister says, I would never repair bikes for a living. Then it would be work. As long as it remains a hobby I enjoy, then it is play. It is a labor of love.

4) And since it's a labor of love, it doesn't matter to the friend or to me if the parts and especially labor, cost far more than the value of the bike (and yes, I too think it's a Breeze or a Collegiate); the sentimental value is far greater.

5) What Bikemeister said -- "Just wait until the Chinese stop selling to us because the dollar tanks, and there won't BE any "new" bikes to buy!" -- An addition to the story: the his-and-hers bikes, called "Coffee and Cream", were indeed made in China, and they did indeed cease production. Again, this is uncorroborated hearsay, but this friend said the factory that made these bikes was in Beijing, in the zone where factories were shut down in order to allow the air pollution to abate prior and during the 2008 Summer Olympics hosted there. That factory has not re-opened, so there are no more bikes and bike parts for that brand the friend and her husband were considering. She felt lucky they didn't buy them for that reason.

6) I will get photos of the bike, before and after, and a list of the repairs needed to report here when I find out. Maybe I should just bring it to Mr. Old Fat Guy!? I'm no expert.

7) I will also try to get the other side of the story. Perhaps Mr. LBS Neighbor offered to take her old bike as a trade-in on the new bike. Or perhaps it was as she said. I have been in that shop last year, and there WERE a couple of vintage bikes in the front window and on the main floor with hefty price tags on them.

8) With regard to the Sturmey-Archer hubs -- I have a couple of bikes on hand right now so equipped, and recently sold a Hercules with one; I guess I've been extraordinarily lucky so far with them, because I haven't had to do anything but wipe off the grime and add a couple of drops of oil to them. I've a '79 Schwinn Collegiate 3 that my daughter just loves, and I just last week brought home a $5 Huffy with the S-A hub. Someone spray-bombed the whole thing, so there is paint on the hub, the spokes, the brake cable housing, the headbadge, the chain...yes, I am nuts for wanting to fix it. But it has that three-speed hub. I just re-read Sheldon Brown's article on S-A, and have gained a new appreciation and respect for the old three-speeds. So I'm fixing it, even if it is "only" a Huffy.

Old Fat Guy

Feel free to bring it by, David. I have more than one low end Schwinn the the garage right now, and even a Sear 3 speed.

In fact I have a 3 speed Breeze I just finished.

Regards---John

Mike Mills

This story is so heavily filtered it is hard to make heads or tails of it.

I do agree there is most likely no dishonestly on the part of the bike shops. "It can't be fixed", can mean a lot of things. It can't be fixed economically is one of them.

If we use the $300 purchase price as a benchmark, that might allow for $100 in parts and $200 in labor (let's assume that works out to be 3-4 hours fully burdened in a shop, could be more, could be less). Who among you can strip, detail clean and reassemble a bike that's been hanging in thegarage for twenty years, including your time finding and purchasing all the C&V replacement parts, and do it all in just a few hours?

For a professional (LBS) it probably does not make sense to do that, hence, the, "It can't be fixed (economically)" comment.

Dishonest? No way. I think you should retract that claim and offer an apology. Really!

For the OP, it's a hobby. Great! Good for him, good for her. That is what is required to make this a reality - free labor.

P.S. - How much would you like to bet that after you spend a day doing maintenance on the bike it spends the next 20 years hanging in the garage.

bikemeister

I snagged a bike like this, covered head to toe - wheels and all - in blue paint. When I finally got around to it, I started stripping the paint off, expecting to find rusted metal - the bike would have been scrapped for parts. Imagine my surprise when I discovered CHROME on the chainguard, and great condition chrome on the rims! The bike turned out so well my wife appropriated it as hers and had me sell her existing bike!

manicmike

i've seen some of the same thing. go to our local coop and most of the good bikes are marked "not for sale" because they are reserved by the regulars. can a coop go out of business? i'm not saying it does'nt fulfill a certain role, but just because it's a coop does'nt mean it's run well.

mkeller234

On a similar note, I had taken a rear wheel from a Schwinn collegiate to the lbs to have the freewheel removed. I was told "it can't be removed, it's stripped". I could see that it looked fine so I bought the tool and did it myself. Now is that dishonest?? Because I was pretty angry when I left (I did not show it).

BTW, that was coming from the older mechanic. Older meaning he appeared 60+ years old

andr0id

Because I used to rebuild 2 or 3 of them a week from about 1976 to around 1980. They're built to last through nuclear war. They just need lube and adjustment, rarely parts.

Tires, tubes, cables & housing shouldn't set you back more than $80 or so. And an overhaul is what? Maybe $100. And if you're paying for an overhaul, you'd shouldn't be paying anything extra to replace cables, mount tires, etc... It's already a given the bike going to be taken apart. Of course overhaul nowadays means keep your bike for 5 days, *look* at all the sealed bearings, collect fee, send you on your way.

brockd15 

Free labor isn't necessarily what's required; there's nothing here to compare against. Neither of the places said they could fix it for X amount, they just said they couldn't fix it. The place that could was too far away. We don't know what she would have been willing to pay to have done whatever it ends up needing.

And the talk from others of what the bike would sell for in no way applies here...I don't think she's looking to flip her childhood bike that she bought with her $0.50 an hour job when she was 12. In this case there is no thought of profit margin, so the market value, and what you could sell it for on CL, is a moot point.

Doohickie

My LBS is pretty quickly developing the reputation of that odd shop in timbuktu that'll fix the old bikes. Right now they have several moldie-oldies in the back, waiting to get all fixed up. The mechanic there has been a wealth of information to me in my quest to learn all I can about the old bikes. I try to funnel all the customers I can to them since I feel bad about hanging onto my old bikes and not buying something new from them.

Two sides to every coin I guess.

stausty

This is certainly fodder for another thread, but...

On the surface a co-op that passes the good bikes on to regular volunteers doesn't seem like a good idea, but what is the alternative? The point of a co-op is to provide help in repairing bikes for the community for cheap or free or sell decent, affordable transportation. If the primary goal is repair and assistance, then donated bikes destined for the parts bin if they're not claimed by someone. If it's a good bike then there's quite a bit of demand and it always is claimed very quickly, leaving the cheap junk around. The regulars are there to claim it more often, so they get bikes more often.

A co-op that sells bikes has an even hairier situation to deal with, since they can almost always undercut whatever competition is around, be it local bike shops, flippers, etc. So either they a) sell bikes cheap, meaning the good bikes still go quick (A $50 Miyata 1000 will go just as fast on Craigslist as it will at the co-op) or b) price things based on what the market will bear, so good bikes stick around, but they'll always make more profit at a given price. They will still undercut everyone by at least a little bit but only enough to drive lots of people out of business and your chance of getting a good bike at a cheap price is unimproved. At that point they really should be classified as a for-profit business, voiding any co-op-ness they had originally.

Obviously it can get out of hand, but what's the problem with keeping your good volunteers around by occasionally paying them in bikes? And for some co-ops being run poorly, what portion of LBS's are run poorly?

Mike Mills

Just remember that all the points you make in your first paragraph are only what you've bbeen told, are heavily filtered and the person who posted them is in no way impartial. Re-read his latest post, just above.

For a local bike shop there should ALWAYS be a thought about profit and profit margin. They are in business to make a profit.

I do agree that selling the bike for a profit is not part of this story, as far as we know.

I also feel very clearly that there is no dishinestly involved on the part of either shop.

This is one of those stories that is just too distorted to know the "truth".

Old Fat Guy

FWIW, one of the local Ann Arbor shops told me about 5 years ago that I would have to junk my Cinelli and buy a new bike.

This , of course is not true.

On the other hand, the old parts on it went to a fellow forumite and it was reborn with modern Campagnolo 10 speed.

Net cost to me...zip, nada, zilch.

If one has the passion to restore an old Schwinn, more power to them.

Last year we bought back my wife's old Collegiate from the farmer she sold it to 20 years prior. When she sold it , it was shiny, when we bought it back it looked just like a bike that had been sitting in a barn for 20 years, and had been backed into by a tractor. We paid way too much fr it.

We had the frame straightened, I actually took all the bits off and polished them on the buffer, and she has a <faded> bike that can't be replaced.

I figure we have about $300 into that Collegiate, and she wouldn't sell it for twice that.

In the interim, I've found nicer, pristine, identical ones (apart from the serial # and Ann Arbor bike license) for $5 -$20. She prefers the old, faded one.

Point of the post... there isn't one.