They say I half-wheel
#26
Me duelen las nalgas
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Texas
Posts: 13,513
Bikes: Centurion Ironman, Trek 5900, Univega Via Carisma, Globe Carmel
Mentioned: 199 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4559 Post(s)
Liked 2,802 Times
in
1,800 Posts
BTW, I just remembered a split-second incident on Sunday's ride that made me cringe a bit.
The group were coasting down a hill. Usually I like to hammer downhills. Need for speed and all that. But in group rides I go with the flow.
So I coasted, and sat up to let the wind slow me down. But I was catching up too quickly and my front wheel began to overlap the rear wheel of the guy just ahead. So I tapped my brakes and slowed quicker than I'd expected. I suddenly realized there was someone behind me. I nearly freaked out but realized he was over to my right a couple of feet, so no harm done.
Just a reminder that in the year I was off from group rides some of my instincts got rusty.
The group were coasting down a hill. Usually I like to hammer downhills. Need for speed and all that. But in group rides I go with the flow.
So I coasted, and sat up to let the wind slow me down. But I was catching up too quickly and my front wheel began to overlap the rear wheel of the guy just ahead. So I tapped my brakes and slowed quicker than I'd expected. I suddenly realized there was someone behind me. I nearly freaked out but realized he was over to my right a couple of feet, so no harm done.
Just a reminder that in the year I was off from group rides some of my instincts got rusty.
#27
NYC
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,714
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1169 Post(s)
Liked 107 Times
in
62 Posts
Suppose you are riding 12" from your neighbor. (Yeah, you intended it to be 24" but things happen and at the moment you are close. You are on the left, he is riding the road edge. He sees on of those old storm gratings with the bike killer lengthwise bars, right in his path. He doesn't have time to say anything. He rides into you and bumps you pretty hard. Now, look at the scenarios. You are in front. His handlebars go inside and behind yours. Your knee hits his bar. I"ll tell you right now, this isn't going to end very well.
Or suppose you keep your handlebars religiously lined up. And even better the two of you ride with elbows out; like I was also taught. Bump! Handlebars get knocked apart, yours taking you to the left a little, his back to straight. He misses the grating. You get pissed then see why he did that. And nothing bad happens at all.
When on the front, plan far ahead and pick smooth lines around things.
#28
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 12,888
Bikes: (2) ti TiCycles, 2007 w/ triple and 2011 fixed, 1979 Peter Mooney, ~1983 Trek 420 now fixed and ~1973 Raleigh Carlton Competition gravel grinder
Mentioned: 129 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4788 Post(s)
Liked 3,909 Times
in
2,542 Posts
Thanks for taking the time to write this. I wasn't questioning whether half-wheeling is a good idea or not, but I think the tutorial on what can go wrong is well worthwhile.
I've seen some bad consequences of half-wheeling, though I wasn't involved. It was more or less as you describe - one of the lead riders moved suddenly sideways and hooked bars with the rider next to him. They both went down and their bikes were mangled. Fortunately, they weren't too badly hurt.
This does raise a question, though, and that is that this danger exists also in the pack, not just on the front, and people (in my experience) seem less uptight about misalignments further back. That isn't to say that people don't try to ride bar to bar or know that they should, but when the misalignments do occur back in the pack, people seem more chill about it.
Oh, and some time ago I rode a little in New England (specifically W. MA), and I was shocked at the depth of the storm drain holes on the roadsides. They were positively terrifying.
I've seen some bad consequences of half-wheeling, though I wasn't involved. It was more or less as you describe - one of the lead riders moved suddenly sideways and hooked bars with the rider next to him. They both went down and their bikes were mangled. Fortunately, they weren't too badly hurt.
This does raise a question, though, and that is that this danger exists also in the pack, not just on the front, and people (in my experience) seem less uptight about misalignments further back. That isn't to say that people don't try to ride bar to bar or know that they should, but when the misalignments do occur back in the pack, people seem more chill about it.
Oh, and some time ago I rode a little in New England (specifically W. MA), and I was shocked at the depth of the storm drain holes on the roadsides. They were positively terrifying.
#29
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 12,888
Bikes: (2) ti TiCycles, 2007 w/ triple and 2011 fixed, 1979 Peter Mooney, ~1983 Trek 420 now fixed and ~1973 Raleigh Carlton Competition gravel grinder
Mentioned: 129 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4788 Post(s)
Liked 3,909 Times
in
2,542 Posts
Nothing bad happened to YOU TWO, but by BOTH of you failing in your responsibility to look far ahead and plan the line for the guys behind you, you have now led the entire right side of the paceline directly into a grate, and carnage will ensue. DO NOT DO THIS. EVER. (personal experience, the carnage included 3-4 guys, at least one broken wheel, at least one broken derailleur, my brifter, and lots of shredded kit and gloves. I also injured my rotator cuff in the pile up, which took almost an entire year to fully recover.
When on the front, plan far ahead and pick smooth lines around things.
When on the front, plan far ahead and pick smooth lines around things.
Ben
#30
- Soli Deo Gloria -
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Northwest Georgia
Posts: 14,779
Bikes: 2018 Rodriguez Custom Fixed Gear, 2017 Niner RLT 9 RDO, 2015 Bianchi Pista, 2002 Fuji Robaix
Mentioned: 235 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6844 Post(s)
Liked 736 Times
in
469 Posts
I half wheel sometimes on purpose. Yes, I admit it.
It has been said that to be half wheeling means that you are not conscious of doing it but that aside, I do. Usually it is on the paved rail trail with just one other person and so no big safety risk.
One trigger is if a young guy asks how old I am. I will engage him in conversation, slowly pull a half wheel ahead and say something like, "What? I didn't hear you with the wind noise." They increase effort, catch up and I'll do it again and say something like, "Oh, that's interesting. Tell me more about that." or ask, "So how do you like those pedals?" This goes on with gradually increasing speed until one of us gets out of breath.
That's my goal, to see who gets out of breath first. If I get out of breath then I slow down. If he gets out of breath I say something like, "Well, I have to do some yard work later. Great chatting with you" and ride off the front.
Another trigger is if I'm riding fixed gear and someone says, "Oh look, a fixie!" or makes some sarcastic remark. Or they could just be a jerk and I'll do it for as long as possible.
One guy on a road bike bragged about what great shape he was in so I half wheeled him from the drops on my gravel bike with 43 mm tires. "Oh, yeah, yoga is great. Do you do Pilates?" "How much to you bench press?" "Do you eat any special diet?" Half wheeling the whole time until he could hardly breathe.
-Tim-
It has been said that to be half wheeling means that you are not conscious of doing it but that aside, I do. Usually it is on the paved rail trail with just one other person and so no big safety risk.
One trigger is if a young guy asks how old I am. I will engage him in conversation, slowly pull a half wheel ahead and say something like, "What? I didn't hear you with the wind noise." They increase effort, catch up and I'll do it again and say something like, "Oh, that's interesting. Tell me more about that." or ask, "So how do you like those pedals?" This goes on with gradually increasing speed until one of us gets out of breath.
That's my goal, to see who gets out of breath first. If I get out of breath then I slow down. If he gets out of breath I say something like, "Well, I have to do some yard work later. Great chatting with you" and ride off the front.
Another trigger is if I'm riding fixed gear and someone says, "Oh look, a fixie!" or makes some sarcastic remark. Or they could just be a jerk and I'll do it for as long as possible.
One guy on a road bike bragged about what great shape he was in so I half wheeled him from the drops on my gravel bike with 43 mm tires. "Oh, yeah, yoga is great. Do you do Pilates?" "How much to you bench press?" "Do you eat any special diet?" Half wheeling the whole time until he could hardly breathe.
-Tim-
#32
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
Posts: 40,865
Bikes: Specialized Tarmac, Canyon Exceed, Specialized Transition, Ellsworth Roots, Ridley Excalibur
Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2952 Post(s)
Liked 3,106 Times
in
1,417 Posts
Yeah. Don't do that.
Likes For caloso:
Likes For ksryder:
#34
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,433
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 741 Post(s)
Liked 412 Times
in
230 Posts
Just try and pedal with a steady effort and don’t worry too much about your partner. If he gets a little ahead it doesn’t matter as long as you’re keeping the pace steady. Any adjustments to position should be subtle, no need to rush to be in lock step. See if you can find partners of similar fitness, that way you can both go hard if you want and you’ll be ready for a break at roughly the same time. If you’re with someone weaker, just relax and go at their pace. Pairings invariably shuffle and you’ll have a chance to go harder at some point in the ride.
#36
Senior Member
Just something to think about. I'm normally the lightest rider on our rides at about 135lbs. If I'm riding up front with a 180lb guy on rolling terrain, we sometimes have difficulties not half wheeling each other. You understand the issue on rollers - I'm faster on the uphill at constant power while he's faster on the downhill using constant power. So we each have to adjust to each other a bit. It works out just fine but we both have to pay attention. But I'll be honest, I like pulling with a similar sized rider as things are just easier.
#37
well hello there
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Point Loma, CA
Posts: 15,430
Bikes: Bill Holland (Road-Ti), Fuji Roubaix Pro (back-up), Bike Friday (folder), Co-Motion (tandem) & Trek 750 (hybrid)
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 503 Post(s)
Liked 336 Times
in
206 Posts
. . . For instance: a guy I ride with is chronically late to rides. On one particularly egregious example, when he was 30 minutes late for a weeknight group ride (the rest of the group decided to wait for him, had it been my choice I would've left him). So when he finally joined us and it was my turn on the front I put the hammer down for about 5 minutes just because I was pretty annoyed with him. Spit him off the back after about 30 seconds.
He didn't learn. He's still late to everything.
He didn't learn. He's still late to everything.
__________________
.
.
Two wheels good. Four wheels bad.
.
.
Two wheels good. Four wheels bad.
Likes For Nachoman:
#38
wears long socks
I didn't read every reply so if I echo on anyone else just ignore me.
It's all about stressing the person beside you. The person up front typically rides a fast but relaxed pace, one they can comfortably hold for a long pull. Adding a person beside them introduces a barrier between them and relaxing. Half wheeling them breaks the relaxing side of it because they feel like they need to catch the eternal half wheel or disrupt the whole group and everyone behind them.
Riding fast, relaxing and being dead even with the other lead is quite nice, but to some people any disruption in it makes it a stressful situation.
We are all different and some of us are strange, but think of it as a group of OCD people wanting everything to stay in order. If it doesn't they stress.
It's all about stressing the person beside you. The person up front typically rides a fast but relaxed pace, one they can comfortably hold for a long pull. Adding a person beside them introduces a barrier between them and relaxing. Half wheeling them breaks the relaxing side of it because they feel like they need to catch the eternal half wheel or disrupt the whole group and everyone behind them.
Riding fast, relaxing and being dead even with the other lead is quite nice, but to some people any disruption in it makes it a stressful situation.
We are all different and some of us are strange, but think of it as a group of OCD people wanting everything to stay in order. If it doesn't they stress.
#39
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,433
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 741 Post(s)
Liked 412 Times
in
230 Posts
Thanks for the link - yes, it is an interesting read. However, Tilford seems most concerned with the performance aspects of half-wheeling - strong riders wearing out their partners. From what he writes, one wouldn't get the perspective that he think it's a safety issue. Just that it's punishing on the engine to be subjected to it.
#40
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 2,537
Bikes: yes
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1281 Post(s)
Liked 643 Times
in
329 Posts
I have mellowed somewhat from my Army days of "if you're not early, you're late"--in that, I'm still early to everything but I accept that is not reality for most people.
However, I still find being late, especially being chronically late, to be completely self-centered and inconsiderate and have very little patience for it.
Likes For ksryder:
#41
NYC
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,714
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1169 Post(s)
Liked 107 Times
in
62 Posts
I guess I never said this but I wasn't talking about riding the front. I was talking about riding 20 or 30 riders back where all you get to see is a wall of jerseys and road hazards as they appear in front of the rider immediately in front of you. Self survival. (And if you go down, the next 5 are probably going down also.) Yes, responsible riding for those behind is important, but that's another thread.
Ben
Ben
#42
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: USA
Posts: 2,190
Bikes: Ti, Mn Cr Ni Mo Nb, Al, C
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 942 Post(s)
Liked 526 Times
in
349 Posts
The way you stop a half wheeler is to half wheel back until they can't half wheel you anymore. They will then be perfectly happy sitting right at your side lol
#43
Senior Member
That sounds like the worst way of doing it.
Isn't the best way to just let them go? You keep your steady pace and they will keep creeping forward. Eventually they will either slow down or end up riding on their own.
Isn't the best way to just let them go? You keep your steady pace and they will keep creeping forward. Eventually they will either slow down or end up riding on their own.
#45
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,515
Mentioned: 69 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3241 Post(s)
Liked 2,512 Times
in
1,510 Posts
I think there are support groups for half wheelers. The OP and some others have taken the first step by admitting they have a problem.
#46
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 2,537
Bikes: yes
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1281 Post(s)
Liked 643 Times
in
329 Posts
2. Came to believe the a power meter greater than ourselves could restore us to a steady pace.
3. Made a decision to turn our training and bank account over to the care of the first random coach on TrainingPeaks that answered our emails.
....
(Shall I continue?)
#47
- Soli Deo Gloria -
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Northwest Georgia
Posts: 14,779
Bikes: 2018 Rodriguez Custom Fixed Gear, 2017 Niner RLT 9 RDO, 2015 Bianchi Pista, 2002 Fuji Robaix
Mentioned: 235 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6844 Post(s)
Liked 736 Times
in
469 Posts
#48
I am potato.
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 3,104
Bikes: Only precision built, custom high performance elitist machines of the highest caliber. 🍆
Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1782 Post(s)
Liked 1,620 Times
in
926 Posts
On the other hand while on a 16-18 group ride (my group, but I wasn't leading) we had a British guy, Grant, on a 3T racing bike, I think. He would slow just a touch before corners so that the best line was on the outside. Then he would "square" his corner, effectivly using you as a guardrail or forcing you uncomfortably close to the road edge, parked car, curb. He did it to me 3 times. I watched him do it to several other riders as well.
Finally I got angry & told him as much. He made a lame excuse about "You are not supposed to be on the outside."
I told him "This ain't racing. Your conduct is a hazard." Just then, a friend of mine shot me a glance and asked if I raced last week. Knowing exactly what he communicated, I looked right at Mr. Square Corner and replied: "Naw, I just watched."
Square Corner sized me, my t-shirt & my 1974 Schwinn Varsity up for a long minute & I haven't seen him since.
I guess the short version of the story here is half-wheelers sometimes feel they have something to prove, even if it manifests as enthusiam for cycling or the group, or whatever. Most times the group already has their own established dynamics. Fitting in is a matter of reading the group not literally jockeying for position in the heirarchy.
Pulling, half-wheeling, jockeying for position, etc...is the opposite of fitting in. They are right to say something.
#49
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
Posts: 40,865
Bikes: Specialized Tarmac, Canyon Exceed, Specialized Transition, Ellsworth Roots, Ridley Excalibur
Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2952 Post(s)
Liked 3,106 Times
in
1,417 Posts
1. Admitted we were powerless over the paceline and that our cadence had become unmanageable
2. Came to believe the a power meter greater than ourselves could restore us to a steady pace.
3. Made a decision to turn our training and bank account over to the care of the first random coach on TrainingPeaks that answered our emails.
....
(Shall I continue?)
2. Came to believe the a power meter greater than ourselves could restore us to a steady pace.
3. Made a decision to turn our training and bank account over to the care of the first random coach on TrainingPeaks that answered our emails.
....
(Shall I continue?)
Likes For caloso: