bikenh

So you can hit 50 on that drop. I have wandered and then started to doubt when I saw the Ticonderoga drop again for the first time in years back in 2014. I have driven down that drop on many occasions when coming back to NH from Lake Placid. I know you can start from a dead stand still, in a car, at the top of the hill and coast 100% of the way down the hill and you'll hit 90 by the time you get to the curves. Been there done that several times. I have wanted to ride down it, even try climbing it but I always seem to not make it to Ticonderoga or something happens to prevent me from going down the drop. Hopefully sometime I will get the chance to ride down it.

Fastest I have been fully loaded, 49.7 mph in western CT. I saw the sign on the first day of my 2015 bike trip, it was suggesting 9% grade ahead. I was thinking it was going to be much of anything...until I was 1/3 to 1/2 way down the drop and realized this was a nice drop, not a short bump I thought it was going to be. I quickly knew by the time I reached the bottom that my bike handled quite well and I didn't have to worry much about it on pretty much any drop I came to. I had quite a few times during that trip when I was over 40 mph on descents.

The secret to riding the drops fast...do it and get used to it. It helps to get to know your equipment so you know how it will handle. You never know when you might end up in a situation where you need to be comfortable going real fast down a hill...brake fail and you can't put them on so all you can do is coast down the hill at the hill speed. What you going to do then? I don't worry about because I get use to it before I may need it in an emergency.

Steve0000

I've hit 80kph a couple of times with a loaded bike. Last time was with a LHT disk model, rock stable at that speed.

stevepusser

51 mph on the east side of Carson Pass between Sorenson's and Woodfords. Done that descent on several tours and usually could hit at least 50 where it was straight for what seemed a mile.

50 on the east side of Tioga Pass, once, but that was a bit scary, what with some random rocks in the road here and there. Most of the descent I stayed at 40 or below.

50 once going down the west side of Ebbets Pass into Hermit Valley where the quite narrow road ran straight for a bit, escaping a thunderstorm at the Sierra crest and having its downburst as a tailwind. That was pretty hairy--a van was several hundred yards ahead of me and disappeared around a corner. I began slowing quite a bit when it did that, and a good thing, too, since when I came around the corner, it was at a near dead stop as it edged by a large pickup coming up the grade.

Locally, I could usually break 50 coming down into Slaughterhouse Canyon on Hwy 67 near Lakeside in San Diego County, coming back from an overnighter at Cuyamaca State Park's hike and bike sites. Warm temperatures, a normal afternoon tailwind, some draft from any passing vehicles, and a big gap in traffic to get off the wide shoulder out into the right lane of the two downhill lanes to be free of any debris on the shoulder would play a big part in hitting that terminal velocity. The speed limit was 50 on that road, so traffic wouldn't overtake me too soon, and the regular drivers knew that the CHP often sat at the bottom of the grade clocking drivers, especially where the two lanes would merge into just one and idiots would race other cars just to be first into that lane.

53 on the shoulder of I-8 about 5 miles east of Alpine in San Diego County during a rather major September offshore wind event. I had to continually brake when riding the 4-5% grade down through Alpine to keep from breaking the 35 mph speed limit there that day--way too dangerous with all the business cross traffic there. Temperature was 113 F by the time i got down into Lakeside--phew!


Plus a mirror to watch overtaking traffic on all these hills, of course.

djb

mr kc8, the main thing to take from this topic is that there is no clear answer to this, or rather, the huge amount of variables that play a part in how safe is it going X speed on Y bike in Zed conditions.

bike stability
load balance etc that has a huge part in bike stability
tires and tire condition
your individual judgement, or lack thereof, of what constitutes "dangerous"
road conditions
wind conditions
traffic
line of sight
your eyesight
your reaction times
your experience going fast

I'm someone who personally is very comfortable going quickly on two wheels, yet I am constantly evaluating all the factors as I go down a descent, and realize that it can change in a second and I will have to take evasive action or slow down or whatever if x, y, and zed factors tell me that it would be prudent to slow down.
I trust my two wheeled experience of perhaps 40 years going fast, and simply go with my gut instinct, but am completely aware that a few seconds of inattention or sloppiness or whatever could result in a dangerous situation.

I love riding in mountains, and actually part of that love is the payback we get after humping a heavy bike up and up and up, that we get to go down and down and around corners deliciously, so yes, I love this part of cycling.

but (touch wood) am aware that we always need to be on top of things and always be "ahead" of the bike at speed, and if I sense that conditions/factors or my reaction time is being overtaken by the speed, I dial it back to where I know I have a "cushion" of reaction time to unforeseen things.

safe descending all

KC8QVO

There was no "search for a singular answer" in my thread topic. It was purely to spark the exact conversation that has been taking place. I was curious as to others' perspectives and their experience while descending on tour, but in general on a bike regardless. That was all and to that point the discussion has been very enlightening.

djb

didnt mean to be pedantic, its the dad in me and Ive had the unfortunate luck of riding with folks a couple of times who have gone off in turns because they didnt judge corner speed properly, so I guess its an immediate reaction to bring up the safety angle here, especially when we don't know what experience various riders have here.
I feel its important to bring up the big factor with hauling ass on a touring bike---getting way past the bikes braking ability, and not being able to respond to either a road hazard or whatever.
The first time I went really really fast on a touring bike, it was probably up near 90kph , but it was rather sketchy because I was very much beyond being able to get the speed down at any reasonable deceleration if there had been a big dip or pothole ahead of me.

That said, there have been many times that I've gotten up to the 80k range and it's been completely calm and uneventful.
I regularly get up to a bit over 70k on local rides, but what has been interesting in the last few years riding a disc bike, is how I am so much more confident going fast downhill because the disc system can stop so much faster and with so much less hand pressure compared to rim brakes. Knowing that I can very quickly slow down 20 or 30kph is great, and has been great when seeing rough patches ahead.
I have some memories 25+ years ago of going down rather long Pyrenees downhills and not really being able to control my speed, well I could just barely, but having to gradually stop because the pads were melting and fading rather badly, and being very grateful to finally be able to pull to a safe stop, breathe a bit and flex my hands.

but yes, its easy to overheat disc systems also, so as always, short hard braking is always better for less heat buildup, even with discs.

and to bring back the "fun" factor--I can't express how much fun I get with going quickly on a descent after hours of slogging. Like others here, I also really really love going fast around corners, and this is where a good solid bike, good solid racks with secure panniers, and a good level balance of weight makes all the difference. My newer bikes handle so much better than what I was riding ages ago. Tires play a part here also, and I figure its a combination of all of the factors, but I certainly feel that descending is way more fun now simply because my newer bikes are so much more composed than back in the day. (plus throw in the stronger braking)

its kinda like downhill skiing, when skiing we have to develop a good seat of the pants "slow-down-meter" when judging when we've gotten to that point that we are skiing past our control limits for the specific conditions, whether snow/ice stuff, other people, width of trail, bumps, how tired we are etc.

Tony Marley

58 mph on a Santana tandem with a BOB trailer, heading downhill towards Delta, CO. Newly re-surfaced wide highway.

DropBarFan

With four panniers+ I think I hit about 38 mph/61 kph on long but not esp steep descents, with crosswinds buffeting the bike it was more comfortable to keep speed down to about 30 mph.

xroadcharlie

I go so fast down hill I have mounted 2 deer/moose whistles so I don't hurt the 2,000 lb bull mooses antlers if I run into him at 50 mph on my bike.

Brian25

Tioga Pass coming down from Yosemite. 55mph

DropBarFan

Some impressive speeds listed but OP asks about when "loaded down" which I would interpret as w/4 panniers or similar, not lightweight bike-packing or w/o luggage. Panniers have big aero drag & 40 lbs/18 kg luggage can be a bit difficult to manage on high-speed curves. As I've moved to wider tires (50 or 54 mm) I've been surprised how much they slow descent speed which I figure is not really a bad thing safety-wise. My Disc Trucker steering felt noodly on fast descents with 35mm-wide tires but with 50mm Marathon Supremes the front doesn't bounce as much so it's a much more confident feel. I haven't done loaded mountain descents on my Haanjo EXP Carbon but otherwise it feels quite more comfortable descending than the Trucker.

djb

Dropbar, as you say, the aero drag "sail" effect with 4+ panniers is rather significant, and with any headwind the slowing down effect on reasonable grades is very very noticeable. I usually can't get past 60kph with any kind of headwind, even on an unloaded bike with 28mm slicks and tucked in for all I'm worth, gradient and headwind variation playing a part.

But any tailwind and that's when I've found you have to be careful.

And I agree completely on the 50mm Supremes being fantastic for loaded cornering, I've never experienced such great cornering speed loaded and the extra rubber and suspension effect is noticeable, but I figure also they slow things down, but probably not much compared to wide panniers, fenders, handle bar bag in the aero department.

cyccommute 

I've never experienced any problems with handling curves at speed. I tend to throw myself down any hill that come along no matter what bike I'm riding. The only time I had any problems was on the straight section of Trail Ridge Road after the Alpine Center on the west side. The bike developed a death wobble at 48 mph but I think that was due to a load balance issue. I never had any other problems with the bike.

My GPS on the phone says I hit 55 on a loaded bike on the south side of New Found Gap in North Carolina. Not sure I believe it. My computer said I hit 45 mph on the twisty bits of that road in the rain but didn't say I hit 55 anywhere along the route.

Even off-road on bikepacks, I go as fast a possible. Speeds there are limited by the terrain and road conditions, however. Even then, 30mph feels like about 60 and the bike handles a whole lot differently. The load is too high for really comfortable high speed descents.

Wilfred Laurier

I don't know. But I am planning a ride of the Cabot Trail next year and took my wife's offer of driving a support vehicle, partly (mostly?) out of fear of doing the big downhills fully loaded, and I am not generally afraid to let my bike find it's terminal velocity.

A friend said I don't need to worry about that on the Cabot Trail because if I am out of control I can just ride off a cliff into the ocean

djb

I havent been there for probably 45 years, but I de recall some tight corners , a la hairpin sort of stuff, so its really a matter of keeping your speed in check and being conscious of how much braking ability you have for a given speed and gradient. I do know that an old friend of mine who has ridden it, has told me of his concerns of his tubular tires from braking so much, so I suspect there are areas that you have to be sharp and keep things under control.
It should be easy to read up of loaded riders experiences there, and at least be prepared if that makes you feel better--I reckon it still comes down to personal responsibility of keeping things in check for a given situation.

your friends comment was pretty darn funny though!

mtnbud

56 mph coming down from Richland Oregon into Halfway Oregon when I was young and inexperienced at touring. 4 loaded panniers running 25 mm slicks at 110 psi. The road surface was great and I had a tailwind. The speed limit was 55. There was no traffic so I took the lane on all corners. I did move over to the shoulder on the straightaways and when a pick up with a dog in the back caught up to me. The bike did great, but running 25mm slicks at 110 psi eventually toasted my rims about 9 days into my trip. I know better now and use wider tires at lower pressures.

robow

Many years ago when younger and more foolish, and when lightly loaded down in southern IL, I touched 50 mph just before soiling my undies and grabbing brake. I was on a very stiff frame and I had a perfect view of what was coming, it was straight down on excellent pavement (perfect conditions). And No, that will not happen again.

djb

alas, not so young any more but only a bit less foolish--hopefully still evaluating the various factors properly....

Brett A

My touring bike tops out around 35mph loaded. It's got to be wind resistance. It's heavy as f*ck when loaded (I'm 225 myself), but the bike with panniers and a handlebar bag is as aerodynamic as a barn door.

I've been over 55 mph on a bicycle plenty of times, but the loaded tourer won't do it; not even coming down out of Sierras.

elcruxio

Here's my speed record loaded. Granted it doesn't show speed data, but after the run I verified from both my cycle computer and gps that I had topped 50mph or 80kmh.

I went easy with the corners because at that time I had already broken one pair of front roller panniers by crashing and was not enthusiastic to repeat the ordeal of claiming them from warranty etc.

As luck would have it, on the same trip later on I did manage to damage the right side pannier, but this time I used the Ortlieb repair tape and it's been good ever since.

bobwysiwyg

@elcruxio; Yipes! Cringed through the entirety.

DropBarFan

Great video, looks like TdF. Good grief, you flew past those other guys. What road is it?

djb

Nice vid elcrux
Switzerland? Taking a stab with that cuz of the house designs.

I grinned the whole time watching it.
Seriously

Alas I only have memory videos of my greatest descents. Yours did cause some of my pryenees memories to replay, outbraking slow ass cars into hairpin as well as pulling away for kilometers in the twisties are favorite memories, and one super cute memory of a French family picnicking in a corner grassy area and the kids running out to the road cheering us on around the corner like it was the TDF.

Thanks for the vid, greatly enjoyed it.
Pushing on downhills and corners for me is one of the greatest feelings in the world.

elcruxio

Close but this was actually filmed in Austria, specifically this place:

Mallnitzer Str.
Mallnitzer Str., 9822 Mallnitz, Itävalta
https://maps.app.goo.gl/Z8Vr6dXDaPUbqokG8

The interesting part there is the fact that one is forced to ride a train through the mountain to get there from Bad Gastein. No road exists. Our maps showed some paths over the mountain but they seemed more like mountaineering routes than rideable trails, hence we took the train.

The actual descent ends at obervellach. Was by far the best / longest descent of the trip

djb

Cool. How many metres did you dump, any recollection?
To me, descending fast and around corners on two wheels is right up there with ......... shall we say, shinanigans.