Asian Serial Number Guide
#176
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T-Mar,Just discovered this thread (after reading the one on the Steve Bauer Mystery Bike), and I'm intrigued. I have several SB's, so I tried to confirm their dates of manufacture using their serial numbers. Not sure the guide works for them, though. Like the gentleman up-thread with the SB Whistler, mine have SN's that start with two capital letters, followed by 5 numbers. That doesn't seem to fit the Yamaguchi system suggested for them, as it starts out with letter-number-letter. The ones that do appear to correspond (during the mid-80's) to the SB sequence look to be those of Fuji, Kawamura, Maruishi, Miyata and Tsunoda - but of them, only Maruishi's produced dates that make sense.
Specifically, mine have SN's that start with either F (like both the Whistler's and the SB Mystery Bike's) or G; followed by either H, N or S. Assuming the second letter refers to a fortnight, Mariushi's system would give them dates ranging from April '86 to April '87 - certainly a period compatible with their colour schemes. Do you think Maruishi could have been the (or a) builder of early SB frames? Or have I muffed something? Thanks so much, BTW, for putting together and sharing all this info!
Specifically, mine have SN's that start with either F (like both the Whistler's and the SB Mystery Bike's) or G; followed by either H, N or S. Assuming the second letter refers to a fortnight, Mariushi's system would give them dates ranging from April '86 to April '87 - certainly a period compatible with their colour schemes. Do you think Maruishi could have been the (or a) builder of early SB frames? Or have I muffed something? Thanks so much, BTW, for putting together and sharing all this info!
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T-Mar - Tried responding with pix, but they wound up in the gallery, without my message appearing at all (??). I presume you can find them though, and I hope they help! (I do find it curious that two of them have the NS on the BB, but the third is on the seat tube. It'd make you think a different company made it - yet the SN's all follow the same letter-number pattern...)
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T-Mar - Tried responding with pix, but they wound up in the gallery, without my message appearing at all (??). I presume you can find them though, and I hope they help! (I do find it curious that two of them have the NS on the BB, but the third is on the seat tube. It'd make you think a different company made it - yet the SN's all follow the same letter-number pattern...)
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Hmm...I can get to them by going to the gallery and clicking on "My Pictures" - but I don't actually see how one goes about finding someone else's.
I'll re-post.
I'll re-post.
#180
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However, there might be restriction on new members viewing other members albums. I'm not sure. Regardless, it's a moot point now that you've achieved 10 posts.
Last edited by T-Mar; 08-24-19 at 09:15 AM.
#182
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Based on the liveries, they are all 1986-1987 models. This raises my confidence in Maruishi being the manufacturer but what escalates to the matter to "almost certainty" cataegory is the tubing decal of the Mistral. The layout is suspiciously reminiscent of the generic tubing decals applied to Maruishi models of the mid-1980s. Similar decals are also seen on Maruishi manufactured Nashbar bicycles of this era.
It was fairly common for marketing brands such as Steve Bauer to use multiple contractors. They were always looking for the best balance between price, workmanship and materials, so contractors could change from year to year and often their were different sources for different levels of bicycles. Based on your collection, it would appear that Maruishi was the prime source for at least the entry level and lower mid-range models during 1986-1987.
Based on the serial numbers, the Mistral and Chinook should be 1986 models, while the Cyclone should be a 1987 model manufactured in late 1986. I've seen cases where manufacturers have changed the serial number location each time they rolled over the serial number sequence and some who used alternate locations depending on the customer, but neither case would seem to fit your bicycles.
Thxs for posting. However, if you want to survive on the forum without being constantly called out, you'll have to learn to post photos taken from the drive side, so that the drive train components are are more visible.
It was fairly common for marketing brands such as Steve Bauer to use multiple contractors. They were always looking for the best balance between price, workmanship and materials, so contractors could change from year to year and often their were different sources for different levels of bicycles. Based on your collection, it would appear that Maruishi was the prime source for at least the entry level and lower mid-range models during 1986-1987.
Based on the serial numbers, the Mistral and Chinook should be 1986 models, while the Cyclone should be a 1987 model manufactured in late 1986. I've seen cases where manufacturers have changed the serial number location each time they rolled over the serial number sequence and some who used alternate locations depending on the customer, but neither case would seem to fit your bicycles.
Thxs for posting. However, if you want to survive on the forum without being constantly called out, you'll have to learn to post photos taken from the drive side, so that the drive train components are are more visible.
#184
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MMMmm..I got an 80's Sears road bike, I guessed it was an FS10, but none of your numbers are near those on my bike, for instance, mine doesn't have any letter codes, but an 8 serial number whose first 3 numbers are "702" followed by a "489" underneath followed by a dot and another 6 numbers... any ideas who would have made this, and dates?
Last edited by jimmy78; 08-26-19 at 08:59 AM.
#185
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Here it is! I need to descipher this code from my old Sears Free Spirit..
#187
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I can contribute with two serial-numbers, I recently bought a Miki Sakai bike, branded Fĺglum! It has a Miki Sakai-sticker and the serial-number M2C07685, which would make it a 1982. Dura Ace AX seatpost, steer and breaks. Gears and crankset are 600AX.
Gösta and Erik Fĺglum, two out of the four brothers that dominated the Swedish cycling in the 1960's and 70's, supposedly put the wheels of the bike together. One of the brothers was a front-figure of some kind of the Mizutani-bikes (it was earlier called Seraph) in Sweden, for a short while. I read somewhere that he also ran a shop selling branded bikes but my clues kind of end there.
I can't add images in this post since I haven't posted ten times yet, but they are in the gallery bikeforums(dot)net/g/album/15021556
Any clues around this frame would be of great interest to me!
I also have my modified Koga Miyata RoadSpeed where the headbadge only says 'Miyata'. Serialnumber F510237, making it a 1977. I could find it in the 1978 catalogue. Any info on this frame is of course also welcome, even if it's not as big of an enigma to me as the Fĺglum one.
Also, Thank you T-Mar! I have learnt so much by reading your posts and replies over the years and it has inspired me to find out even more about my bikes. Internet wouldn't be the same without you
Gösta and Erik Fĺglum, two out of the four brothers that dominated the Swedish cycling in the 1960's and 70's, supposedly put the wheels of the bike together. One of the brothers was a front-figure of some kind of the Mizutani-bikes (it was earlier called Seraph) in Sweden, for a short while. I read somewhere that he also ran a shop selling branded bikes but my clues kind of end there.
I can't add images in this post since I haven't posted ten times yet, but they are in the gallery bikeforums(dot)net/g/album/15021556
Any clues around this frame would be of great interest to me!
I also have my modified Koga Miyata RoadSpeed where the headbadge only says 'Miyata'. Serialnumber F510237, making it a 1977. I could find it in the 1978 catalogue. Any info on this frame is of course also welcome, even if it's not as big of an enigma to me as the Fĺglum one.
Also, Thank you T-Mar! I have learnt so much by reading your posts and replies over the years and it has inspired me to find out even more about my bikes. Internet wouldn't be the same without you
Last edited by atayim; 10-02-19 at 05:08 PM. Reason: missed a comma...
#188
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I can contribute with two serial-numbers, I recently bought a Miki Sakai bike, branded Fĺglum! It has a Miki Sakai-sticker and the serial-number M2C07685, which would make it a 1982. Dura Ace AX seatpost, steer and breaks. Gears and crankset are 600AX.
Gösta and Erik Fĺglum, two out of the four brothers that dominated the Swedish cycling in the 1960's and 70's, supposedly put the wheels of the bike together. One of the brothers was a front-figure of some kind of the Mizutani-bikes (it was earlier called Seraph) in Sweden, for a short while. I read somewhere that he also ran a shop selling branded bikes but my clues kind of end there.
I can't add images in this post since I haven't posted ten times yet, but they are in the gallery bikeforums(dot)net/g/album/15021556
Any clues around this frame would be of great interest to me!
I also have my modified Koga Miyata RoadSpeed where the headbadge only says 'Miyata'. Serialnumber F510237, making it a 1977. I could find it in the 1978 catalogue. Any info on this frame is of course also welcome, even if it's not as big of an enigma to me as the Fĺglum one.
Also, Thank you T-Mar! I have learnt so much by reading your posts and replies over the years and it has inspired me to find out even more about my bikes. Internet wouldn't be the same without you
Gösta and Erik Fĺglum, two out of the four brothers that dominated the Swedish cycling in the 1960's and 70's, supposedly put the wheels of the bike together. One of the brothers was a front-figure of some kind of the Mizutani-bikes (it was earlier called Seraph) in Sweden, for a short while. I read somewhere that he also ran a shop selling branded bikes but my clues kind of end there.
I can't add images in this post since I haven't posted ten times yet, but they are in the gallery bikeforums(dot)net/g/album/15021556
Any clues around this frame would be of great interest to me!
I also have my modified Koga Miyata RoadSpeed where the headbadge only says 'Miyata'. Serialnumber F510237, making it a 1977. I could find it in the 1978 catalogue. Any info on this frame is of course also welcome, even if it's not as big of an enigma to me as the Fĺglum one.
Also, Thank you T-Mar! I have learnt so much by reading your posts and replies over the years and it has inspired me to find out even more about my bikes. Internet wouldn't be the same without you
In America, Miki is best known as one of the contractors of the Centurion, Sekai and Specialized brands. During the period in question, they were considered one of the better Japanese contract manufacturers of mid-range and higher grade bicycles. I've seen quite a few early aero frames but offhand I can't recall one like this. Generally, the down and seat tubes are either aero along their full lengths or aero in the middle with round ends, to allow the use of standard lugs and clamp style front derailleurs. Your frame appears to have down and seat tubes that are aero at the top and middle but round at the bottom bracket end. If so, this is an interesting compromise that would result in both good aerodynamics and a stiff bottom bracket. I guess I shouldn't be surprised to see such a novel solution coming from a family of TT specialists!
While the Koga-Miyata may have a 1977 serial number, it is relatively high, so it could very well be a 1978 model manufactured in late 1977. The one thing I find interesting is that we have had some other submissions from Sweden that were Miyata and not Koga-Miyata. The bicycles didn't match the American Miyata models or the Koga-Miyata models. The owner was of the understanding that the there was a Swedish company designing and importing Miyata bicycles from Japan and not through Koga-Miyata. Of course, maybe I'm erroneous in assuming that you in Sweden based on the Fĺglum.
Regardless, thank-you again for the submissions. I'll add Fĺglum to the list. BTW, I saw what you did with your forum name.
#189
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The bicycles didn't match the American Miyata models or the Koga-Miyata models. The owner was of the understanding that the there was a Swedish company designing and importing Miyata bicycles from Japan and not through Koga-Miyata. Of course, maybe I'm erroneous in assuming that you in Sweden based on the Fĺglum.
Anyway, sorry for my complete silence, I have had a few super-busy weeks... I did however reach out to the store that Erik Fĺglum had back in the days as well as a museum in that area, to see if there is any more info to get.
Any way, I did find some clues!
Quoting a different thread with a similar question on this forum, bikeforums(dot)net/16581528-post24(dot)html
I didn't get a reply from the owner yet, so not any closer to understanding what the frame is, if it's indeed made by instructions from Fĺglum or as some have suggested "any frame Miki had on the shelf".
I also found this, which might be a Shimano-frame..?
lh6.googleusercontent(dot)com/-0v7QEiimHUY/UgPMxM1ijeI/AAAAAAAAGMc/3ZIibgxWkro/s800/IMG_5649(dot)JPG
I've seen quite a few early aero frames but offhand I can't recall one like this. Generally, the down and seat tubes are either aero along their full lengths or aero in the middle with round ends, to allow the use of standard lugs and clamp style front derailleurs. Your frame appears to have down and seat tubes that are aero at the top and middle but round at the bottom bracket end. If so, this is an interesting compromise that would result in both good aerodynamics and a stiff bottom bracket. I guess I shouldn't be surprised to see such a novel solution coming from a family of TT specialists!
In my quest to go to the bottom of this, no pun intended, I stumbled upon a reply you made in a thread about a SR-frame! I had no idea that there actually was an aero BB shell, I've really been trying to find any info about the Tange Aero. Is there any catalogue out there where it was featured?
What I find most interesting about this frame is that it utilizes the aero head and seat lugs but a standard BB shell. Consequently, the tubes transition from round at the bottom, to aero in the middle and top. There was an aero BB shell developed for the Tange Aero tubeset, so I find it a bit bit strange that they didn't go full areo, though they would have had to spec the brazed-on Dura-Ace AX front derailleur.
An image of an SR that looks very similar but in a different colorscheme.
bikeforums(dot)net/18575453-post101.html
Shhh..it's a secret!
Anyway, thank you so much for the input! I love when a bike has a story even if (or maybe just because), I will never learn the complete storyline. Even doing maintenance on a bike like this I can find new stories. So it might be that this is in fact "just a regular japonese bike", as some have suggested, but to me it will never be
#190
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I am from Sweden so that is correct, but the Miyata is actually from the Netherlands where I lived some ten years ago! I read somewhere that very early Koga-Miyatas came with Miyata headbadges. I found from cykelhobby(dot)se that Miyata was actually imported to Sweden by Sjöstrand Bike Company in Gothenburg.
No, I was referring to the company name being Anglicized. Many Japanese companies Anglicized their name after WWII or when they started marketing outside Japan.
Any way, I did find some clues!
Quoting a different thread with a similar question on this forum, bikeforums(dot)net/16581528-post24(dot)html
So of course I found this frame in a Swedish fixie-forum! farm4.static.flickr(dot)com/3548/3459877930_1e77b6b562_z(dot)jpg
I didn't get a reply from the owner yet, so not any closer to understanding what the frame is, if it's indeed made by instructions from Fĺglum or as some have suggested "any frame Miki had on the shelf".
I also found this, which might be a Shimano-frame..?
lh6.googleusercontent(dot)com/-0v7QEiimHUY/UgPMxM1ijeI/AAAAAAAAGMc/3ZIibgxWkro/s800/IMG_5649(dot)JPG
Wow! I would never have thought about that, it is true, they are round at the bottombracket!
In my quest to go to the bottom of this, no pun intended, I stumbled upon a reply you made in a thread about a SR-frame! I had no idea that there actually was an aero BB shell, I've really been trying to find any info about the Tange Aero. Is there any catalogue out there where it was featured?
Could it be that I have SR-bike?
An image of an SR that looks very similar but in a different colorscheme.
bikeforums(dot)net/18575453-post101.html
I should point out that companies like Faglum rarely worked directly with the manufacturers. They worked though a intermediary called a trading company, who represented the manufacturer.
The SR does resemble your frame. We know that SR did use Miki as a contractor, so there is that tie. Ultimately, what you have is a Miki branded as a Faglum. What we don't know is if it is a standard Miki frame or if the Faglum and SR designers just happened to select a similar set of options.
Sorry, I'm not aware of any online catalogues featuring the Tange Aero tubesets.
Last edited by T-Mar; 10-19-19 at 08:06 AM.
#191
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N(1): Japanese Raleigh Touring bike, serial number N0Pxxxx, where xxxx is a four digit number. I believe this serial number means November 1980. 18 speed touring bike. Model name and decals are mostly gone. Double butted 4130 main tubes.
#193
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My Sekine SHS frame has a serial starting with X so it should be 1975. Odd thing is there is no space after the letter and number which follows.
Anyway, pics
#195
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Yes, that should be an SHS frame. All the Sekine models that used the SR Silver crankset had the atypical 70mm BB shell. I'm used to seeing the serial number space between the month indicator and sequential number string. We rarely see Sekine from this period with a longer than five character sequential number string. This plus a place holding zero has leaning me towards a November manufacture. There's bit of disagreement over the Sekine codes, complicated by the facts that there was little model change in the mid-1970s and that the components were consolidated in Japan, instead of being direct shipped from the manufacturers to Canada. Consequenbtly, take the year with a bit of salt. I'd probably just casl it mid-1970s. Thxs for posting.
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So glad I found this thread! Been trying to ID a Cycle Pro I just picked up. T-Mar, you have the Dodsun format as follows. DSym mxxxx(x) Is the space between the m's there for a reason, or is it a typo? My Cycle Pro serial number is DS25600802. Obviously the 56 isn't a month, so I am assuming 5 is the month? Anyway to ID the model? It appears identical to an 82 Bonzai or Macho, but the rear dropouts are way shorter than those two frames.
#198
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So glad I found this thread! Been trying to ID a Cycle Pro I just picked up. T-Mar, you have the Dodsun format as follows. DSym mxxxx(x) Is the space between the m's there for a reason, or is it a typo? My Cycle Pro serial number is DS25600802. Obviously the 56 isn't a month, so I am assuming 5 is the month? Anyway to ID the model? It appears identical to an 82 Bonzai or Macho, but the rear dropouts are way shorter than those two frames.
DS20
5xxxxx
The serial number could be reverse engineered at least a couple of different ways but Dodsun was a known Cycle Pro manufacturer and we have seen some variation in their formatting, so Dodsun would still be my prime candidate. Unfortunately, I can't help with the model. I haven't seen a lot of Cycle Pro, let alone BMX models, which are not my forté..
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Hi T-Mar need help to identification this bike, I want to repaint this bike, but I am not sure is kuwahara bike. frame weight is 2.118g (19"inch) (frame only)
thanks
Barbat
thanks
Barbat
Last edited by BarBat; 12-19-19 at 03:41 AM.
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#200
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Hi T-Mar need help to identification this bike, I want to repaint this bike, but I am not sure is kuwahara bike. frame weight is 2.118g (19"inch) (frame only)
thanks
Barbat
thanks
Barbat