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SPD or SPD-SL

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SPD or SPD-SL

Old 09-05-19, 02:02 AM
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wheelhot
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SPD or SPD-SL

Okay, it's time for that discussion again and I can't decide if I should move on to road cleats and pedals or not. My bike fitter suggested me to move to road cleats as I get more serious in cycling, simply as it's more efficient and more stable. However as the Power Meter I back online is going to deliver soon, I need to make a decision to stick to SPD or change to Look Keo cleats?


The thing I always wonder is, wouldn't a stiff racing XC shoes (S-Works level) outweigh the stability offered by road shoes and cleats? Especially when it comes to climbing out of the saddle and generating sprinting power?

Oh and does walking on grass or some dirt makes affect clip in ability of road cleats or only if it gets real dirty like in mud

Last edited by wheelhot; 09-05-19 at 02:12 AM.
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Old 09-05-19, 04:58 AM
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Short answer: I wasn't sure I was going to stick with SPD-SL when I first tried them, but for the type of riding I do, I ended up sticking with them. On the bike where I am more likely to do a lot of walking around, I still have SPD. On the bike where I don't, I stuck with SL.

I went to SPD-SL on my road bike years ago, still use SPD on my beater/hybrid bike (and in spin classes over the winter.) I actually put two sided pedals on that one - rides with my wife or rides with more walking than riding, I don't use cleats at all.

I definitely prefer the feel of the SPD-SL pedals - more locked in and just feels like more power going to the pedal. On the road bike I'm typical doing longer rides/longer times between stops/not much walking around.

Walking around definitely sucks in the SPD-SLs but unless you are really walking around in crazy stuff, the part that actually clips in on the SPD-SL pedal rarely gets clogged up for me. I bought some cleat covers that I keep in my saddle bag, easy enough to snap them on.

On tours that involve overnight stays, or one way trips I do several times per year where I will change clothes when I arrive, I have to carry sandals or sneakers, where with the SPD shoes I can get by just wearing them when off the bike. But, for those long rides still not much walking around and on long rides I still like the feel of the SLs better.

The SPD-SL cleats also require more care in setting up - there is another degree of freedom compared to the just one direction with the two hole cleats. For me, the SL plastic cleats wear out faster than the metal SPD cleats and cost about the same, if not more - SL is more expensive.

So, the usual YMMV answer! If I only had one bike, had to choose one or the other, and all I did was the typical road riding I do, I'd probably only have SL. If I only had one bike and most of my riding involved more walking or more overnight touring, I'd probably choose SPD.
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Old 09-05-19, 05:39 AM
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SPD-SL = Road use
SPD = ''All Around'' use (technically used for mountain biking though)

If you ride a lot in the city (frequent stops at traffic lights, etc.), I'd stick with SPD pedals & get the 2-sided ones that can be used unclipped on one side and clipped on the other one (Shimano PD-EH500 for instance).

If you're looking for optimal performance & comfort (especially on long rides & when climbing), go with the SPD-SL ones. This is what I have & wouldn't switch.

Also keep in mind that the SPD shoes will be more comfortable when walking, as the SPD-SL ones have cleats that are screwed under them (makes you look like a pengouin when you walk!).

It's all about your needs.

Last edited by eduskator; 09-05-19 at 05:48 AM.
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Old 09-05-19, 05:48 AM
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Originally Posted by wheelhot
Okay, it's time for that discussion again and I can't decide if I should move on to road cleats and pedals or not. My bike fitter suggested me to move to road cleats as I get more serious in cycling, simply as it's more efficient and more stable. However as the Power Meter I back online is going to deliver soon, I need to make a decision to stick to SPD or change to Look Keo cleats?


The thing I always wonder is, wouldn't a stiff racing XC shoes (S-Works level) outweigh the stability offered by road shoes and cleats? Especially when it comes to climbing out of the saddle and generating sprinting power?

Oh and does walking on grass or some dirt makes affect clip in ability of road cleats or only if it gets real dirty like in mud
Road shoes tend to be stiffer than MTB at the lower pricepoints. It isn't until you get to "racing" MTB shoes that they really compete. IMHO.

Grass doesn't impact cleats. Mud does, particularly if there's gravel/aggregate in it. You can buy cleak covers, but for a bunch of injection molded rubber the cost is silly---and in mud they can get sucked off...and you'll lose them never to find them again.
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Old 09-05-19, 05:51 AM
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Originally Posted by eduskator
Also keep in mind that the SPD shoes will be more comfortable when walking,
I have SPD cleats on my Sidi Genius 5 road shoes. Got adaptors so I could use them in spin class. (The spin bike pedals only worked with SPD cleats or no cleats at all.) It's not always the shoe that determines what type of cleats/pedals one can use.
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Old 09-05-19, 06:02 AM
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Originally Posted by wheelhot
My bike fitter suggested me to move to road cleats as I get more serious in cycling, simply as it's more efficient and more stable.
Millions of mountain bike riders would take issue with your fitters statement that SPD-SL is somehow more efficient.

I'm not recommending one over the other, just pointing out your fitter's bias.


-Tim-

Last edited by TimothyH; 09-05-19 at 09:28 AM.
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Old 09-05-19, 06:40 AM
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Having both, I can tell no discernable difference in power output/transfer. Maybe someone in a lab can measure the difference, but it can't be much.

I'll be using SPDs on all future pedal/shoe purchases (going to reuse my SPD-SLs on the new road bike build, only because I already have them, but will eventually switch to SPDs when I feel like spending the money). Easier to clip in/out, easier/safer to walk in, no brainer to me.

Had I known the difference when I first started cycling, I would have gone with SPDs, I only went with SPD-SLs, because like your fitter, people told me that's what road bikes use.
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Old 09-05-19, 07:12 AM
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I use "regular," metal, SPDs for commuting and messing around. I use SLs on the road because good road shoes are drilled for 3-bolt cleats and that's what good road pedals accept (yes, Speedplay, blah, blah). For various reasons, I have regular SPDs on my winter boots, which accept both kinds of cleats, but do not have a pocket for the SPD. That really sucks for walking.
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Old 09-05-19, 07:34 AM
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Originally Posted by MoAlpha
I have regular SPDs on my winter boots, which accept both kinds of cleats, but do not have a pocket for the SPD. That really sucks for walking.
To make walking with SPDs on road shoes easier, install these Shimano SH-41 Adapters or these Wellgo Adapters.
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Old 09-05-19, 07:45 AM
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Originally Posted by terrymorse
To make walking with SPDs on road shoes easier, install these Shimano SH-41 Adapters or these Wellgo Adapters.
The grams! The grams!
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Old 09-05-19, 07:57 AM
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I am very new to clipless and opted to go the SPD route. Up until last week my primary bike was a gravel bike. Last week I became the owner of a road bike, and considering my shoes have SPD cleats, I put PD-A600 pedals on it. I am not a professional rider and don't really care about any minuscule power loss created by these shoes. For the same reason I enjoy my gravel bike (versatility), I also prefer SPD shoes with recessed cleats.
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Old 09-05-19, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by TimothyH
Millions of mountain bike riders would take issue with your fitters statement that SPD is somehow more efficient.

I'm not recommending one over the other, just pointing out your fitter's bias.


-Tim-
I think you mean SPD-SL? 😛

And I think he's not wrong as for road racing purposes, SPD-SL is more efficient, just the question is how much do you lose by using SPD on road. But of course, in real-life condition, a stronger rider will still beat the weaker rider even if the stronger rider is on SPDs.



Originally Posted by Marcus_Ti
Road shoes tend to be stiffer than MTB at the lower pricepoints. It isn't until you get to "racing" MTB shoes that they really compete. IMHO.

Grass doesn't impact cleats. Mud does, particularly if there's gravel/aggregate in it. You can buy cleak covers, but for a bunch of injection molded rubber the cost is silly---and in mud they can get sucked off...and you'll lose them never to find them again.
Good point about lower price point road shoes is stiffer, so it brings this question, will a racing MTB shoes offset the "perceived" issues of MTB cleats on road, mainly hotspots, sprints (though I think this shouldn't be a problem as pro XC MTB races has a lot of short sprints) and stability regarding out of saddle climbing?

Ic ic, so if there's no mud but some sand or gravel, it's usually okay?

Originally Posted by eduskator
SPD-SL = Road use
SPD = ''All Around'' use (technically used for mountain biking though)

If you ride a lot in the city (frequent stops at traffic lights, etc.), I'd stick with SPD pedals & get the 2-sided ones that can be used unclipped on one side and clipped on the other one (Shimano PD-EH500 for instance).

If you're looking for optimal performance & comfort (especially on long rides & when climbing), go with the SPD-SL ones. This is what I have & wouldn't switch.

Also keep in mind that the SPD shoes will be more comfortable when walking, as the SPD-SL ones have cleats that are screwed under them (makes you look like a pengouin when you walk!).

It's all about your needs.
Yeah, penguin walking is one of the reasons why I hesitated in using road pedals.

Out of curiosity, with SPDs, sometimes you can use the centre part of your shoe to pedal temporarily if you're not able to clip in, is this doable on road shoes with road pedals as well? Like can you pedal without being clipped in for a short distance with road shoes + road pedals by using the centre part of the road shoe?

Originally Posted by jpescatore
Short answer: I wasn't sure I was going to stick with SPD-SL when I first tried them, but for the type of riding I do, I ended up sticking with them. On the bike where I am more likely to do a lot of walking around, I still have SPD. On the bike where I don't, I stuck with SL.

I went to SPD-SL on my road bike years ago, still use SPD on my beater/hybrid bike (and in spin classes over the winter.) I actually put two sided pedals on that one - rides with my wife or rides with more walking than riding, I don't use cleats at all.

I definitely prefer the feel of the SPD-SL pedals - more locked in and just feels like more power going to the pedal. On the road bike I'm typical doing longer rides/longer times between stops/not much walking around.

Walking around definitely sucks in the SPD-SLs but unless you are really walking around in crazy stuff, the part that actually clips in on the SPD-SL pedal rarely gets clogged up for me. I bought some cleat covers that I keep in my saddle bag, easy enough to snap them on.

On tours that involve overnight stays, or one way trips I do several times per year where I will change clothes when I arrive, I have to carry sandals or sneakers, where with the SPD shoes I can get by just wearing them when off the bike. But, for those long rides still not much walking around and on long rides I still like the feel of the SLs better.

The SPD-SL cleats also require more care in setting up - there is another degree of freedom compared to the just one direction with the two hole cleats. For me, the SL plastic cleats wear out faster than the metal SPD cleats and cost about the same, if not more - SL is more expensive.

So, the usual YMMV answer! If I only had one bike, had to choose one or the other, and all I did was the typical road riding I do, I'd probably only have SL. If I only had one bike and most of my riding involved more walking or more overnight touring, I'd probably choose SPD.
By degree of freedom you mean that SPD-SL gives more cleat rotational angle? And yeah, how fast road cleats wear out is another negative.

I don't think I'll do any overnight touring, but I do have one bike and occasionally I would climb super steep hills that might require dismount of I paced it wrong, I guess in that situation, a SPD pedal will be much easier to get back on in comparison to SPD-SL?

---

Oh and I noticed that Fizik shoes 3 bolts position are fixed, only relying on how much adjustments the cleats allow. Is this enough?
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Old 09-05-19, 08:44 AM
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You will not be able to pedal without being clipped with SPD-SLs... Well, if you manage to, good luck not getting injured.

As soon as you need something more hybrid, I'd definitively stick with SPDs. As I said, there are dual sided SPD pedals available. According to me, this setup is perfect for city riders who does occasional climbs from time to time.

I'm looking to buy a second bike to commute to work and this is what I'll get if I buy one that comes without pedals.

Last edited by eduskator; 09-05-19 at 08:52 AM.
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Old 09-05-19, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by wheelhot
Good point about lower price point road shoes is stiffer, so it brings this question, will a racing MTB shoes offset the "perceived" issues of MTB cleats on road, mainly hotspots, sprints (though I think this shouldn't be a problem as pro XC MTB races has a lot of short sprints) and stability regarding out of saddle climbing?
I have no problems sprinting, climbing out the saddle, or putting down steady power for long, fast rides (metric century @ 23+mph avg), and no hotspots with my Fizik MTB shoes. I wonder if the people making these claims have ever actually used SPD pedals?
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Old 09-05-19, 08:58 AM
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What if I told you that I have different pedals on different bikes
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Old 09-05-19, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Rides4Beer
I have no problems sprinting, climbing out the saddle, or putting down steady power for long, fast rides (metric century @ 23+mph avg), and no hotspots with my Fizik MTB shoes. I wonder if the people making these claims have ever actually used SPD pedals?
Yeah, you have a point there. What kind of Fizik MTB shoes you have and out of curiosity, have you felt any side-to-side play on the pedal when climbing out of the saddle?


Originally Posted by ksryder
What if I told you that I have different pedals on different bikes
Care to elaborate?


Originally Posted by eduskator
You will not be able to pedal without being clipped with SPD-SLs... Well, if you manage to, good luck not getting injured.

As soon as you need something more hybrid, I'd definitively stick with SPDs. As I said, there are dual sided SPD pedals available. According to me, this setup is perfect for city riders who does occasional climbs from time to time.

I'm looking to buy a second bike to commute to work and this is what I'll get if I buy one that comes without pedals.
Yeah, I am currently on dual sided MTB and yikes! didn't know that you cant pedal without being clipped in on SPD-SL, that'll make navigating through traffic a little bit more difficult
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Old 09-05-19, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by wheelhot
Yeah, you have a point there. What kind of Fizik MTB shoes you have and out of curiosity, have you felt any side-to-side play on the pedal when climbing out of the saddle?
Fizik Terra X5. There is def more float than with my SPD-SLs, but it hasn't been an issue. It's easy enough to keep your foot straight when out of the saddle, climbing or sprinting.
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Old 09-05-19, 09:20 AM
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And another thing: My SPDs all start to creak and groan long before they're worn out (they last virtually forever). My SPD-SLs are silent.
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Old 09-05-19, 09:29 AM
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SPD for anything involving dirt. SPD-SL for my road bike.

The SPD-SL *feel* stiffer and more efficient but I don't have any objective data to back that up, and I don't race or anything so whatever. They feel nice when I win the meaningless town line sprint that nobody else knew we were sprinting for, though!

They're also a little bit more fiddly to clip in and if you miss the pedal you bang the everliving crap out of your shin. If you do end up having to go through any dirt (like, say, to go around the bridge construction after you ignored the "road closed" sign, hypothetically speaking) they pick up mud like nobody's business.

The SPDs are bombproof, less susceptible to mud, and the shoes work better when you have to walk. I've ridden literally thousands of miles in SPDs with no complaints. Sprinting isn't really a thing for me on gravel although sometimes it is on CX but I haven't seen a problem with it. Of course, everyone else is also on SPDs or Eggbeaters so it's kind of a level playing field in that respect.

I wouldn't have a problem with using them on my road bike but since I already own the SPD-SLs I might as well use them.
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Old 09-05-19, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by wheelhot
SPD-SL is more efficient
Please ask your fitter how this is so.


-Tim-
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Old 09-05-19, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by ksryder
SPD for anything involving dirt. SPD-SL for my road bike.

The SPD-SL *feel* stiffer and more efficient but I don't have any objective data to back that up, and I don't race or anything so whatever. They feel nice when I win the meaningless town line sprint that nobody else knew we were sprinting for, though!

They're also a little bit more fiddly to clip in and if you miss the pedal you bang the everliving crap out of your shin. If you do end up having to go through any dirt (like, say, to go around the bridge construction after you ignored the "road closed" sign, hypothetically speaking) they pick up mud like nobody's business.

The SPDs are bombproof, less susceptible to mud, and the shoes work better when you have to walk. I've ridden literally thousands of miles in SPDs with no complaints. Sprinting isn't really a thing for me on gravel although sometimes it is on CX but I haven't seen a problem with it. Of course, everyone else is also on SPDs or Eggbeaters so it's kind of a level playing field in that respect.

I wouldn't have a problem with using them on my road bike but since I already own the SPD-SLs I might as well use them.
My experiences exactly.

I'm considering switching all of my bikes to SPD. Currently I have two bikes with SPD and two with Look Keo (which are incredibly similar to SPD-SL).

The SPD bikes are my mountain bike and my randonneuring bike.

Look Keo bikes are my skinny tire road bike and my fixed gear.

I do feel a little more secure in the Keos, but they are quite tight and, like I said, zero float. It feels incredible on my fixed gear, but I miss the SPD when I'm trying to clip in, especially stopped at an intersection around traffic.

Considering switching to SPD since I've never felt like there are any disadvantages. I've never popped out of them even in some dynamic and hard efforts on my mountain bike, and never had any comfort issues on longer rides either.

Shoes are pretty cheap as well, my shoes with Keo cleats are probably 8 year old low-end Louis Garneaus, and my mountain shoes are low-to-mid range Bontragers. I do like the Shimano adapters listed above, if I ever make the transition completely to SPD I will likely pick some of those up so that I can still use my 3 bolt road shoes if I want to.
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Old 09-05-19, 11:31 AM
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I like SPDs for the dual entry pedals (more of an MTB thing but I love the convenience).
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Old 09-05-19, 11:35 AM
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With decently stiff shoes, cleat type does not matter for foot comfort. Look at 1) what you plan to do with the bike (and off the bike while wearing the shoes) and 2) issues with your feet and knees that might need to be addressed. This is the most important contact point with the bike for your skeleton.

I have knees for which I must have some forced toe-in of my feet to get my patellae to track properly. I run no-float cleats on all my bikes except the ones that go on dirt. So I ride - LOOK Delta black cleats on LOOK copy pedals (cheap and they work) and traditional toe-clips and slotted aluminum cleats (on my fix gears, I never want to pull a foot off the pedal going fast) on my road bikes and SPDs on my gravel bikes but with the SPDs set to max toe-in and the release set to near max.

On a couple of my shoes, I have had a cobber add sole material so I could walk with my non floor-friendly cleats in safety.

Edit: Lake shoes work very well for my feet and come with both bolt patterns, LOOK 3-bolt and SPD 2-bolt.

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Old 09-06-19, 07:19 AM
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Yeah, I am currently on dual sided MTB and yikes! didn't know that you cant pedal without being clipped in on SPD-SL, that'll make navigating through traffic a little bit more difficult
Yep, and this is exactly why I don't use mine to commute to work or for city rides (that and the fact that I dont want to leave a 6.5k$ bike in my work building's bicycle stall...).

My commuter bike will have dual sided SPD pedals.
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Old 09-11-19, 03:16 AM
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Originally Posted by MoAlpha
And another thing: My SPDs all start to creak and groan long before they're worn out (they last virtually forever). My SPD-SLs are silent.

I guess that's cause it's metal on metal whereas it's plastic on plastic for road? I usually put a drop or two of chain lubricant on the cleats whenever it starts creaking and the noise will disappear.



Originally Posted by Rides4Beer
Fizik Terra X5. There is def more float than with my SPD-SLs, but it hasn't been an issue. It's easy enough to keep your foot straight when out of the saddle, climbing or sprinting.

Hmm, isn't more float generally better? As that's what I kept seeing why people loveeee speedplays so much?



Originally Posted by ksryder
SPD for anything involving dirt. SPD-SL for my road bike.


The SPD-SL *feel* stiffer and more efficient but I don't have any objective data to back that up, and I don't race or anything so whatever. They feel nice when I win the meaningless town line sprint that nobody else knew we were sprinting for, though!


They're also a little bit more fiddly to clip in and if you miss the pedal you bang the everliving crap out of your shin. If you do end up having to go through any dirt (like, say, to go around the bridge construction after you ignored the "road closed" sign, hypothetically speaking) they pick up mud like nobody's business.


The SPDs are bombproof, less susceptible to mud, and the shoes work better when you have to walk. I've ridden literally thousands of miles in SPDs with no complaints. Sprinting isn't really a thing for me on gravel although sometimes it is on CX but I haven't seen a problem with it. Of course, everyone else is also on SPDs or Eggbeaters so it's kind of a level playing field in that respect.


I wouldn't have a problem with using them on my road bike but since I already own the SPD-SLs I might as well use them.

Yeah, which is why I don't think generating power will be an issue as MTB and CX has a lot of segments where you're require to power climb your way through or sprint, and unless you're competing at the highest level, I doubt you'll "lose" cause of your shoes. In case there's a confusion, I'm talking race MTB shoes vs road shoes here.




Originally Posted by 79pmooney
With decently stiff shoes, cleat type does not matter for foot comfort. Look at 1) what you plan to do with the bike (and off the bike while wearing the shoes) and 2) issues with your feet and knees that might need to be addressed. This is the most important contact point with the bike for your skeleton.


I have knees for which I must have some forced toe-in of my feet to get my patellae to track properly. I run no-float cleats on all my bikes except the ones that go on dirt. So I ride - LOOK Delta black cleats on LOOK copy pedals (cheap and they work) and traditional toe-clips and slotted aluminum cleats (on my fix gears, I never want to pull a foot off the pedal going fast) on my road bikes and SPDs on my gravel bikes but with the SPDs set to max toe-in and the release set to near max.


On a couple of my shoes, I have had a cobber add sole material so I could walk with my non floor-friendly cleats in safety.


Edit: Lake shoes work very well for my feet and come with both bolt patterns, LOOK 3-bolt and SPD 2-bolt.


Ben
Thanks! So when you mentioned patallae to track properly, you mean during the pedalling motion it'll not be in a straight/close to straight line? I wonder, wouldn't cycling specific insoles help? Or those Bont with their heat-moldable shoes.





Originally Posted by TimothyH
Please ask your fitter how this is so.



-Tim-
Just got his reply and in summary it is:

1. Cause I ride more than 150km a week

2. Road shoes materials have more flex (some loss of power)

3. Excessive float on MTB shoes (some loss of power)

4. Weight (important for performance cyclist as lighter = less effort to go over hills)


For point 2, wouldn't getting race level MTB shoes solve this? SWorks Recon (the latest one) or Shimano RX8 or Shimano XC9? I came across Bonts Vaypor G and it's based exactly to their Vaypor S road shoes with the difference being the G is SPD and comes with grip. So wouldn't getting these kind of shoes moot point no. 2.


So based on the responses here and point no. 3, it appears a lot of float is not a good thing? I always thought it's a good thing as it gives your knees more freedom? And my understanding is Shimano yellow cleats has more float than SPD cleats, or I am wrong here?


Out of curiosity, when is it time to replace your SPD cleats?


I guess the only real compromise and one that you can't do anything about it will be weight. But unless you're racing competitively, does it really matter? Especially if the only "competition" that you'll do regularly is to get KOM on Strava. Haha

But saying that, with the popularity of gravel, I wonder if we'll eventually see more gravel optimised shoes (something like what Shimano did with RX8, slightly lighter than a dedicated MTB XC shoe and slightly heavier than Road shoes) and perhaps more single sided SPDs (lighter)?

Last edited by wheelhot; 09-11-19 at 03:20 AM.
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