FarHorizon

I bought a bike this morning from a local pawn shop. They had advertised it on CraigsList. The price was excellent, almost foo good.

The bike did have a local police registration tag on it, and I've called the police to check whether they've received any stolen report on it. I won't get their feedback until tomorrow.

If the bike turns up to be stolen, do I return it to the pawn shop for a refund, or do I turn it over to the police & then lose my money?

I obviously don't want to keep the bike if it is stolen, but it doesn't seem fair that I'd buy the bike from a legitimate business and then lose money because the business didn't do due diligence before selling it to me...

How does this work?

repechage

You do both, turn over the bike to the police at the pawn shop.
Pawn shop will refund you your money provided you have a receipt, at least in California.

davester

I've gotten a couple of stolen cameras back as the result of the police doing sweeps of pawn shops and checking serial numbers against their records. This would seem to suggest that pawn shops buy stuff without checking with the police all the time. It also shows that its a really good practice to keep track of those serial numbers and to include them in police reports.

Bianchigirll 

I believe they are required by law to check guns and some other items, like certain types of jewelry.

rootboy 

I've always heard that if the foo ****s....wear it.

dddd

I would think that if a pawn shop hasn't had an ongoing record of high rates of stolen property reports that they are probably in the clear if they at least get enough personal info from their property sources.

Pawn shops pay taxes, so local police might not want to bother them unless perhaps a certain rate of complaint is exceeded.
Their prompt refund of money and surrender of stolen property might be enough to show good faith on their part that they are not trying to profit from receiving known-stolen or likely-stolen property, but their treatment by the legal system might depend on which police agency that evidence and/or a complaint is/was filed with, i.e. city, county, state or federal.

Dave Cutter

Playing "what if" is a great way to ruin a wonderful spring day.

Every investment has the potential to go south and turn into a total loss. The bike could have a hidden defect you missed, it could be stole from you tomorrow, it could be hit by a car. bus, train. or stepped on by a cow. There is a limitless number of things that can go wrong. What-if-ing... (AKA worrying) won't make things better..... but it can steal your joy.

Congratulations on the new bike! Hope you enjoy it.

rootboy 

+1


See my previous post

RR3

You used a bad word. There is no way to check the status of that bad word. I bought one of those bad words from a pawn shop, they told me they had no way of checking but they had the name and address and ID of the person who sold the bad word to them.

flash2070

True story, this happen to me about six months ago. As my usual road bike finding routine is to hit the pawn shops and thrift stores after work, I stopped at a Value Pawn here in Orlando. As I'm driving into the parking lot, I spot a tall, brown road bike with a beautiful white saddle. Upon closer inspection, the bike resembled a Schwinn Super Sport (no decals), as it appeared to be fillet braze. I was really excited about it, I lifted it for a weight inspection, but the bike was heavier than a Sherman tank, so it was a definitely no on the bike! Taking a closer look at the components, also solidified a no go on the bike. Taking a further and closer look at the saddle, I discovered that it was a Cinelli Volare SLX. I inquired about buying the saddle only, but the pawn shop declined to sell it to me. I went into plan B, and I talked them down to $60 for the bike!

I took the bike home, removed the saddle, installed a diff saddle, and put it up on CL. The following morning I get a text from someone that was very interested in it. This person began to ask me very detailed questions of my method of acquisition and time frame since the bike had been in my posession! I quickly put dos y dos together, and knew what this was about. The feller began to accuse me of stealing his bike, and he cited that he had filed a police report, and was going to give them my personal contact details. I of course told him that I had acquired the bike from a pawn shop, and that I had my receipt to prove it. He accused me of falsifying the receipt and demanded his bike back (a total genius).

I told him sure, I'll give you your bike back, but you have to give me what I paid for it. He refused and finished the call with threats! A day later he texted me again with more accusations. By this time I was sick and tired of this guy, and wanted to get him out of my life. I mentioned to him that I would give him his bike back, but that he had to meet at my local police department. He refused as he lived across town, and didn't want to drive to me. He was very arrogant, and I became defensive as well. He stopped texting me for several days until he re-established communication!


This was the camel that broke the straws back, and I had had it with him. I told him that I would meet him half way, and that I would give him his gaspipe Continental! I asked him to meet me at a 7/11, which is off of I-4 for me to give him his bike back. I knew, and sense trouble, so I called the police and explained the situation. The police dispatcher told me that they would send someone right away. A few minutes after I hung up with the police, the owner arrived, but as expected, he brought a goon with him! Both got out of their SUV, and the passenger approahed me with this very serious threatening look on his face! Of course I was not going to back down, and gave him an equally mean threatening look! I knew I didn't stand a chance as these were two big guys, so I did the best next thing, and told them that I had called the police, and that they were on their way, and were about a minute away! This really calmed these two lovers down, and became less threatening!

When the police came I explained the situation in a very calm and professional manner, very eloquently and expertly! I showed them my receipt, and I also made the point that if they still had doubts that we could go to the pawn shop and have them pull the file, and more importantly the video of me making the purchase. The "owner" calmed down with the police there, and we were able to sort everything out. I gave him his gaspipe back, but he never gave me my money paid! By this time, all I wanted was out of this relationship with this strager and didn't care about the money!

With the police there everything was sorted out. The policeman did a search for the report bout found nothing about a stolen 10 speed. I never wanted the bike to begin with, so I gave him his bike back, and that was the end of that. I had previously called the pawn shop, and of course they felt that they had done no wrong, and explained to me that they hold things for 30 days pending owner or police inquiries, and by law they can then put them on the floor for sale after those 30 days. This was the situation with the bike, and I was protected by law. The bike was rightfully mine! I had no problem in giving the bike back, but I did had a problem with the guys attitude! This has been the only negative experience in all of my 8 years of doing this.

P.S. I gave the bike back, but kept the Cinelli saddle, I reasoned with the guy that the saddle that I was giving to him was newer, no tears, and more comfortable. In the end, we both got what we wanted! :-)

Flash

repechage

Flash, makes me wonder if the guy demanding the bike back was the guy who initially pawned it.

Fahrenheit531 

In AZ, at least with guitars (which is all I've ever pawned), weapons, and other high-dollar items, they get a full record (including fingerprint) of the person bringing it in. I don't believe they actively reference every item received with TPD, but if something does come back as stolen there's a paper trail.

dddd

I wonder if thug-'n-goon would have been willing to meet at the pawn shop where the bike was sold.

Seems like the shop owner might not want to deal with the two guys and so return the money so as not to have to call the police to report an ongoing dispute inside of the store.

But the SLX saddle was worth $60.

gaucho777 

Pawn shops always check for stolen goods. Always. That's what the guy behind the counter says anyway.

Lascauxcaveman 

Hmmm... now ya got me thinking about the LeMond Zurich I bought today.

FarHorizon

As to those who say "don't worry, be happy," I reply that receiving stolen goods is NEVER morally right. If someone had this bike stolen from them, then I'd like to see them get it back. OTOH, the shop that received it and then posted it on CL should have checked with the police about the provenance of the goods. I don't know for sure what the laws are in this state.

I've gone the extra step of checking with the local police myself since the bike had a registration number on it. The officer was efficient, friendly, and will let me know today about the status of the bike. Should it need to go back, I'll arrange to meet the officer at the pawn shop with my receipt in hand. I doubt that the shop will refuse a refund. Under NO circumstance will I contact or meet the former owner directly - that's the responsibility of the police.

OTOH, if the bike is clean, then I've gotten a real bargain, and I'll re-register the number under my own name. Further, I'll sleep well at night knowing that I've done the right thing. Had the bike been stolen from me, I'd hope that any pawn shop (or future buyer) would do the same for me.

Cheers - FH

RobbieTunes

I don't blame pawn shops for buying items represented as personal property, as long as they obey the current applicable laws. They don't steal the items, thieves do. They don't create the market, they are just in the business of buying and selling used items, and loaning money on items used as collateral. No, they are not Macy's, and yes, they have to operate by completely different rules. They have no more of a moral obligation to the public than you or I to identify stolen property, and notify authorities, but yet, we task them with it. They gladly cooperate, just like you and I would, and in return, we make them the victim of the thief, instead. Their identification of the seller of stolen property helps prosecution, but they rarely, if ever, get back the money they paid or lent for the item. Convicted thieves rarely make restitution.

I appreciate them cooperating with applicable laws, and many stolen items would never be returned without pawn shop cooperation. Their "overhead" cost of having to return stolen property runs about the same rate as the "overhead" cost of employee theft/shoplifting at retail stores. Just goes to show you, human nature's dishonesty is consistent. eBay/CL are far more profitable for thieves than pawn shops.

I don't have any opinions about what pawn shops "should" do. I have relatives who use "should" a lot. They should shut up more often.

Kobe 

What a coincidence, the other day I was riding my bike through Directly above the center of the Earth, and it was stolen. It is a very nice bike and has a police registration sticker on it.

Please post a picture of the bike you bought along with registration sticker so I can confirm if is mine.

KonAaron Snake 

Local laws and police vigilance likely determine the answer for many shops...as does the integrity of the ownership.

In philly, many pawn shops and second hand jewelry shops do regularly sell stolen goods. First, our police are overwhelmed by crime (according to the police), and/or don't do their jobs according to observation and culture. It's likely both. I can say that after our home was robbed, others robbed by the same guys found possessions at a notorious local pawn shop...I pressed the police and prosecutors about why nothing was being done, I never received answers and was ignored. I find it pretty aggravating...it can't be that hard to do a simple sting, or offer a plea deal, to testify against the fence. That shop has been operating for multiple generations, so something is going on as far as protection.

The real issue here is that if an item is found to have been stolen, the owner has to pay the pawn shop what the pawn shop paid (or what they listed on the books as paid) to get the item back. Not only are the pawn shops not hit with fencing, they're insured by the VICTIM of the crime! Obviously a policy like that lessens the pawn shop's risk in buying stolen goods, and effectively encourages them to do that. It's really disgusting.

I agree with Robbie that pawn shops owe no more duty to avoid buying stolen goods that I have...and if I buy stolen goods from a guy knocking on my door, I lose the goods. If I do it repeatedly, I can be charged as a fence. To me the bottom line is that the rules have to be sensible and they have to be enforced. Would I expect an honest pawn shop to make an innocent mistake from time to time? Sure...and I expect THEM to pay for their mistake, same as I would pay for it. I also expect them to follow all rules and procedures, and I expect that if the same shop is repeatedly found to have stolen goods, it gets shut down, or the owner gets charged.

himespau 

That is an awful situation to be in.

crank_addict

Thru the years have purchased two bikes from a same pawn shop. I'm not a frequent patron of them but both times must have been a fluke of my timing. Absurdly, embarrassing cheap had even ask the employee why? In one area, supposedly everyone wants ATB bikes, but whoever pawned or sold a year old $1,100 road bike could have done far better on CL. The pawn shop definitely had the sellers info and bike(s) serial numbers. Doesn't mean much but rather a bit of protection on their part.

That $1,100 bike when new only cost me $175 out the door. Nutz of a deal. I have receipt, an unmolested serial number, plus the original selling bike shop decal. Didn't want to lose the deal or have the shop re-think the price so I paid and received the bike right away.

(BTW: Most bike shops I know keenly stay in the loop with their local police. RARELY do people have a record of their serial numbers so a registry of stolen bikes mostly have only a description and date reported. That's not to say but eventually stolen bikes end up in police auctions. A legit police auction purchase and buyer could pawn or resell for chump change to the shop.)


I know the feeling well of having a bike(s) stolen so I took it immediately to the original LBS to verify. Happily they verified it was sold originally by them and nothing beyond that or reported stolen.

Mvcrash

In most states (uniform code), the law for receiving stolen property indicates "is stolen or BELEIVED to be stolen" which can shift the burdon of proof of ownership. The biggest issue I found with bikes being reported stolen is that most folks don't know the serial numbers and therefore cannot be listed in NCIC as stolen. Also, after one year, the NCIC record will be expunged if the Police who entered the property do not update the record. If the item has not been updated and one year has past and it was not run in the system, the item will be taken off the hot list.

KonAaron Snake 

I am not aware of a national police database for bicycle serial numbers. A couple of local districts in philly take serial numbers (actually they want to stamp the bottom bracket with their number) and keep them in a local envelope. They don't even share within the city, so of your bike is recovered in a different precinct, no one connects it.

The bottom line is that no one here takes theft seriously...and bicycle theft is low on the list. I'd assume most cities are similar.

gioscinelli 

You got the better of the deal. I've seen Cinelli SLX Volare Saddles on Ebay going betwenn $200 to $500!

CliffordK

There are a couple of stolen bike registries (or perhaps the big ones merged into one).
https://stolen.bikeindex.org/

It is free, only takes a few minutes, is nationwide, and you can search by number or description (although the description is only good for less common bike brands and models, or local searches).