walnutz

wabi_damon I appreciate what you are trying to do here, and as mentioned earlier I had a good experience ordering a wheel from y’all. Just know that every single thread on this forum turns into a pissing match. You can’t win. That said, I think it’s commendable to be so transparent on here.

i have no dog in this hunt, just kinda tired of so much negativity these days. Sounds like all parties in this thread have valid points. Let’s just all ride and/or sell bikes as best we can.

edit: also shout out to Scrod, of course, for always being transparent as well.

samkl 

I bought a Wabi late last year. It’s a great, great bike and Damon was super helpful with answering my questions.

The spiteful comments and weird airing of dirty laundry, I don’t get it. Seems tacky. But hey, I’m not involved, and I guess it’s entertaining?

FiftySix

Yeah, in my business we were told early on not to do that in front of customers. Save it for co-workers or face to face with your competitors. Not good to do at a trade show either as I've seen the results of overnight equipment sabotage.

But in front of customers? It usually backfires, which has led to lost business.

Matter of fact, one of our long term competitors would tell our customers that the machines they bought from us were pieces of crap. One time right in front of me and the customer as I'm servicing a machine. I just let him dig his own grave as he wasn't allowed back in after that. That particular competing company went out of business in 2009 and it turned out that whole company acted like that.

I ran across a few of the same trash talkers on service calls after 2009 and their manner had changed considerably. Having to work from home self employed with no steady paycheck seemed to force some humility upon them.

georgiaboy

My friend had the best fixed gear shop in Atlanta (out of business ). He had quite an inventory of frames mostly Kazane, Surly, Cinelli, even FBM oops...but found most Hipsters couldn’t stand having a track bike that looked like everyone else’s. So, his frames just sat there. Most customers brought in their own sought after unique steel frames and he set them up as fixed gear.

Lazyass

What the hell is all this Wabi bashing?

Here is my experience:

I ordered a Special last year on Black Friday. Free Sub-15 wheels, Deluxe freewheel (as good as WI in my opinion and they should post a better picture of it as well, in person you can tell it's high quality, the pic on the website sucks), and I think some Conti Ultra Sport tires.

I received an email notice with tracking # on a Saturday night, which told me someone was working on Saturday night which was impressive. It was then I realized I had accidentally ordered the wrong size. Freaking out, I sent an email explaining the situation praying someone would see it in time. Having worked in retail I knew the box was probably sitting there at the shop and would be picked up by UPS sometime Monday. I was also kind of worried because there is no actual phone number I could have called on Monday.

First thing on Monday I got a reply, they didn't let the box go out and they charged me a small amount, like $25 or something, to change sizes since they would have to build up another bike due to my mistake. Then when I finally get the bike and inspect it I see it's 100x nicer than I thought it would be. Right up there with $2000 hand-built framesets I've had in the past.

Now I have a bunch of geared bikes I never ride anymore, all I need for the rest of my life is my Wabi. So that's my experience.

AlmostTrick

Apparently you forgot when they marketed their fine bikes as, OMG, "FIXIES" Definitely got many of the FG purists panties in a tizzy with that one.

Hey, everyone is entitled to their opinion and I'm glad they post it, whatever it is. The background stories from those in the know are cool too. The bikes will either continue to sell or they won't. I'm guessing the company will get along just fine.

Onfixiate

They lost a bunch of credibility IMO when Z Gallardo became their YouTube spokesperson. For somebody who acts like Mr. Know it All, he doesn't even have a proper set of tools, much less know how to use them when they are handed to him. Hanging a bike from a tree limb to "work on it", tightening a crankbolt with a hand held allen wrench, etc----there are plenty of cringe worthy "maintenance tips."

veganbikes

WabiScrobi?

It would be nice to have a reliable company that makes high zoot steel fixed gears and single speed road and gravel bikes. Not just more generic stuff but some classy stainless jobbers maybe Columbus XCr or Reynolds 953? Also something that can take Sugino 75s and other track cranks, brakes front and rear and a standard two bottle cages for road and three for gravel at least. Would rather have the bosses and not use them then not have them.

FiftySix

So simple techniques and modest tool budgets are not worthy of Wabi trying to sell to regular people? I'm sure there's a reason why I don't get this. Of course, I don't even know who Z Gallardo is.

TejanoTrackie 

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrk...H_JEH-Nv7ylN5g

TejanoTrackie 

Onfixiate

It's not a matter of modest tool budgets--it's a matter of correctly installing parts. You don't finger tighten lug nuts on a car wheel do you?

FiftySix

I breezed through the video TejanoTrackie showed. Looks like the vid is edited before showing any real effort put into tightening the crank bolts.

Below are two hand held 8mms I have on hand. One is a socket type mounted on a Craftsman 3/8" ratchet. I can hit over 60 Nm in torque* with either one, even though I'm middle aged and not as strong as I use to be.

*Checked by removing same bolts with my beam type torque wrench.

bonsai171

IIRC 40 NM is what All City recommends for theirs (Wabi uses the standard Andel, which is mechanically the same). Pretty crazy you can get generate 60nm with that Allen key, must have been a heck of an effort.

Dave

FiftySix

Not pain free. Sharp allen wrench edges tend to really bite the hand at high effort. That ratchet is much easier on the hand, even though the leverage is the same.

One of the things I do for work is change out guillotine knife blades (on customers hydraulic cutters) using 8 mm or 10 mm T-wrench allens. These blades are usually 30" to 65" long. I hate following up behind someone stronger than myself, because the high torque snap release of an allen wrench in the hands is something I dread. You feel it to the bone.

bonsai171

I prefer a socketed ratchet too. Definitely a lot easier to loosen bolts (I use that to loosen, and a torque wrench to tighten).

The blades you are describing sounds a lot like what we use to cut coils of steel at work. Do you work in the steel industry by chance? I can only imagine the amount of torque needed to secure one of those babies!

FiftySix

Not steel. Paper and plastic sheets, which means I get to spend most of my time wrenching in A/C.

I work on finishing equipment that handles that paper or plastic and gear driven or hydraulic guillotine cutters are just one of the types of machines I work on.

Here's an example of one with a 92 cm cutting width, but with hex bolts securing the knife instead of Allen bolts. Still use a long T-wrench to reach the bolts. Although, I've met a man in his upper 60s that has resorted to using a battery powered impact driver.

bonsai171

That's interesting stuff. What catches my eye here is the diagonal shear action. Plus how quiet it is. Steel can be deafeningly loud to cut, but you get used to it.

TejanoTrackie 

The loosening torque will be higher that the tightening torque, because you have to initially overcome the static friction force between the bolt head and the crank arm. Still, I suspect that you probably achieved the recommended 30 lb-ft (40 Nm) tightening torque for the crank arm bolt.

Also, the video does not show the pedal spindles being properly tightened in the crank arms, which is just as problematic as undertightened crank arm bolts.

bonsai171

That is a little bit disturbing. 300 in/lbs should do the trick. Otherwise, you could be ripping threads out of the pedals. Saw a family member do this once.

Dave

TejanoTrackie 

I wasn’t suggesting 30 lb-ft (360 lb-in) for the pedals, just the crank arm bolts. I usually tighten my pedals to 20 lb-ft (240 lb-in). Also, you’ll strip the aluminum crank arm threads before you strip the steel pedal threads.

bonsai171

It's cool, I figured you meant the crank arm bolts. You'd be surprised how many people dont realize pedals need a lot of torque. Got the 300 in/lb number from Park tool, and there has been no issue with pedals coming off. 240 in/lbs probably plenty too.

Dave

Lazyass

They're getting some nicer pictures up now. I like the new blue Classic color.



https://wabicycles.com/collections/f...et-summer-2020

TejanoTrackie 

Yeah, the Wabi Classic frameset is back in stock, now listed as the 2020 Wabi Classic. The price has increased by $45 to $495, but it is still lower than comparable framsets such as the Soma Rush and All City Big Block.

coopman

Darn! No 49cm frames for us short people. It's height discrimination!!!