fantasy tour de france 2020 + general tdf discussion
09-19-20, 01:30 PM
#276
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I recall now, that example of buddy finish I talked about was in triathlon that finished with a run (I take it, they all do) and the two women held hands through the finish line and it was not counted as winning.
All I can say, even if your team mate(s) helps you in the race (as that is definition of team racing of course), that is different from slowing down at the finish line and intentionally cede the first finish line crossing to your buddy, or worse, make it so close that they need to use photo finish method to decide who won - which in such a case is totally ridiculous, as if that would matter in some way since both parties made it plain, they wanted to share 'the place', can't really call it 'sharing a win'.
I can see both of you your position on the issue but still, it diminishes or damages the spectator interest in the sport as such (I think that was the gist of the official argument of that triathlon finish which resulted in denying the first place and I think the second also to those two...).
And of course, the official reason given didn't consider the other side, the effect on the race contenders themselves. That is something they need to live with, regardless if the win was officially recognized, or not.
In the light of this, we have seen many finishes between team mates when they didn't give a quarter to each other, even if being friends otherwise when not on bikes in a race. Sometimes it was even the case that one of the racers should have been let to win due to some human considerations, like someone in his family died or something of that sort, but the other party with him in the finish didn't pay any regard for that.
If you need to be gentleman in such cases, it should be faked, you just make it like you can't swing it last few miles and than fake the finish, not pushing as hard as you could. Then it at least saves the race for the spectators. I think jury in that triathlon finish ruled just for this reason, that it damages the sport and in longer time view, it will result in fewer spectators attending it, or viewers on tvs, if such buddy finishes will become a rule whenever possible (as is today's trend, when 'warm' human interest is put above 'cold' competing generally in all life venues, as it makes for ace headlines in these times we live in).
All I can say, even if your team mate(s) helps you in the race (as that is definition of team racing of course), that is different from slowing down at the finish line and intentionally cede the first finish line crossing to your buddy, or worse, make it so close that they need to use photo finish method to decide who won - which in such a case is totally ridiculous, as if that would matter in some way since both parties made it plain, they wanted to share 'the place', can't really call it 'sharing a win'.
I can see both of you your position on the issue but still, it diminishes or damages the spectator interest in the sport as such (I think that was the gist of the official argument of that triathlon finish which resulted in denying the first place and I think the second also to those two...).
And of course, the official reason given didn't consider the other side, the effect on the race contenders themselves. That is something they need to live with, regardless if the win was officially recognized, or not.
In the light of this, we have seen many finishes between team mates when they didn't give a quarter to each other, even if being friends otherwise when not on bikes in a race. Sometimes it was even the case that one of the racers should have been let to win due to some human considerations, like someone in his family died or something of that sort, but the other party with him in the finish didn't pay any regard for that.
If you need to be gentleman in such cases, it should be faked, you just make it like you can't swing it last few miles and than fake the finish, not pushing as hard as you could. Then it at least saves the race for the spectators. I think jury in that triathlon finish ruled just for this reason, that it damages the sport and in longer time view, it will result in fewer spectators attending it, or viewers on tvs, if such buddy finishes will become a rule whenever possible (as is today's trend, when 'warm' human interest is put above 'cold' competing generally in all life venues, as it makes for ace headlines in these times we live in).
Last edited by vane171; 09-19-20 at 06:20 PM.
09-19-20, 01:35 PM
#277
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Yes Sagan could theoretically still win even though he's 55 points behind.
09-19-20, 02:04 PM
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Kudos to my boy Landa and Bahrain McLaren for animating the race. All for nought, but certainly made it interesting. Echoes of my whole team's participation in the league this year?
I loved seeing the remnants of Ineos in full rage turned glory, over the mountains like lions and across the line like a couple of happy little lambs. Epic.
I'm not an Ineos hater or lover. I try not to be a hypocrite (no, really!) and don't understand those who have Ineos for their style of racing then applaud TJV for attempting the same thing. Oh well. The wheels fell off their vision so they came up with a plan C. Preparations A through G were abysmal failures but they can feel good about Preparation H on the whole. So far, TJV's vision is 20/20.
No prediction here for 19 other than a hot mess of a break that lasts, but I do love me the idea of some Mads in the waning rainbow taking a stage win.
I loved seeing the remnants of Ineos in full rage turned glory, over the mountains like lions and across the line like a couple of happy little lambs. Epic.
I'm not an Ineos hater or lover. I try not to be a hypocrite (no, really!) and don't understand those who have Ineos for their style of racing then applaud TJV for attempting the same thing. Oh well. The wheels fell off their vision so they came up with a plan C. Preparations A through G were abysmal failures but they can feel good about Preparation H on the whole. So far, TJV's vision is 20/20.
No prediction here for 19 other than a hot mess of a break that lasts, but I do love me the idea of some Mads in the waning rainbow taking a stage win.
I only read about it, don't have means to watch TDF this year. If they rode like that into the finish, that is, not after the finish line, they should be punished or disqualified, same as happened last year to a women racer who did the same when crossing finishing line, not sure if that was a bicycle race or in some other sport.
If I remember correctly, it was deemed unsporting or damaging to sport or something like that, and win went to somebody else...
I never liked this 'buddy racing', like I couldn't care less for the ride last day, getting to Paris. If Eddy Merckx raced today, he would step on it unexpectedly
and leave the peloton open mouthed, spilling their champagne LOL 
If I was in Kwiatkowski shoes, I wouldn't value such 'win', or at least, it would detract from it greatly. How can that technically or in logic be that called a win if someone lets you purposely cross the line before him without racing you? I just hope, that photo when they are in arms was taken after the finish line and that they raced for it.
If I remember correctly, it was deemed unsporting or damaging to sport or something like that, and win went to somebody else...
I never liked this 'buddy racing', like I couldn't care less for the ride last day, getting to Paris. If Eddy Merckx raced today, he would step on it unexpectedly
and leave the peloton open mouthed, spilling their champagne LOL If I was in Kwiatkowski shoes, I wouldn't value such 'win', or at least, it would detract from it greatly. How can that technically or in logic be that called a win if someone lets you purposely cross the line before him without racing you? I just hope, that photo when they are in arms was taken after the finish line and that they raced for it.
Sorry you didn't get to watch the most entertaining TdF in the last 30+ years.
Even an intractable Sky/Ineos hater like me had zero issue with that finish. Either/both of them deserved it. Even though Carapaz likely could have gapped Kwiatkowski at the end, he would not have been in the position he was in without all the work that #5 put in.
Vane, are you sure that the women you referenced were disqualified for crossing the line together, or rather because triathlon is a much more individual sport and that rules prohibit cooperation between contestants?
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Last edited by USAZorro; 09-19-20 at 02:50 PM.
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09-19-20, 02:20 PM
#279
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no more leash for wout. picked him to win the last stage but he seems pretty miffed about the team losing the yellow. let’s see if he tries to win tomorrow in the sprint or goes on a long-range bender in a bid for the win.
09-19-20, 02:38 PM
#280
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I watched all of stage 18. It was magnificent. I'm no expert, but my opinion throughout was that Kwiatkowski was obviously in far superior form compared to Carapaz on that day. It was their teamwork that overstressed Hirschi and caused Hirschi's first critical mistake (i.e. his crash). Kwiatkowski, on his own probably couldn't have beaten Hirschi, but he could certainly have finished the stage minutes faster if he hadn't brought Carapaz along with him. What made the day so impressive and inspirational was their team spirit. They rode with joy.
Even after his crash, I think Hirschi was easily strong enough to finish third. He broke because while riding solo he tried too hard to catch the Ineos pair. It was good for fans and sponsors, but not good strategy. Hirschi ended up in 13th place on the stage.
Now, on behalf of Velogames GBBG team "Trollstigen" I want to add that we're all very proud of our Michal K and thankful for his contribution to our team. We recognized something "Scandinavian" in him when we recruited him!
Even after his crash, I think Hirschi was easily strong enough to finish third. He broke because while riding solo he tried too hard to catch the Ineos pair. It was good for fans and sponsors, but not good strategy. Hirschi ended up in 13th place on the stage.
Now, on behalf of Velogames GBBG team "Trollstigen" I want to add that we're all very proud of our Michal K and thankful for his contribution to our team. We recognized something "Scandinavian" in him when we recruited him!
Last edited by BritishV8; 09-19-20 at 02:53 PM.
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09-19-20, 04:26 PM
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To improve his chances, he should point out to Caleb that it's almost a cat 4 climb coming up from the tunnel, and that they repeat it 9 times.
Wout - Bennett - Sagan would be icing on the cake.
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09-19-20, 05:57 PM
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So is anyone else but me BLOWN away by today's TT and the yellow jersey going to Pogacar?? Not to under estimate him as a rider, but no one on the broadcast predicted or could have predicted how fast Pogacar went today
and now he wins the yellow, polka dot and white jerseys, and wins the tour at 21
I mean really! Saving the TT for stage 20 made it super watchable and exciting. Jumbo Visma has to be reeling after leading and riding from the front of the peleton all tour
and now he wins the yellow, polka dot and white jerseys, and wins the tour at 21
I mean really! Saving the TT for stage 20 made it super watchable and exciting. Jumbo Visma has to be reeling after leading and riding from the front of the peleton all tour
09-19-20, 06:46 PM
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Then let's go back 9 years and disqualify Wiggins and give Froome that 5th victory that has now has no shot at ever claiming.
Sorry you didn't get to watch the most entertaining TdF in the last 30+ years.
Even an intractable Sky/Ineos hater like me had zero issue with that finish. Either/both of them deserved it. Even though Carapaz likely could have gapped Kwiatkowski at the end, he would not have been in the position he was in without all the work that #5 put in.
Vane, are you sure that the women you referenced were disqualified for crossing the line together, or rather because triathlon is a much more individual sport and that rules prohibit cooperation between contestants?
Sorry you didn't get to watch the most entertaining TdF in the last 30+ years.
Even an intractable Sky/Ineos hater like me had zero issue with that finish. Either/both of them deserved it. Even though Carapaz likely could have gapped Kwiatkowski at the end, he would not have been in the position he was in without all the work that #5 put in.
Vane, are you sure that the women you referenced were disqualified for crossing the line together, or rather because triathlon is a much more individual sport and that rules prohibit cooperation between contestants?
Thanks for the expressed sympathy for me, regarding watching TDF. Usually am in EU and watch for free on Eurosport and my country (CR) also has free TDF every year. Except due to covid, I am stuck in Canada for the summer and no sport channel (we have here all 5 TSN channels) carries TDF this year like they did last years... no idea why not this year. I wouldn't care to pay some subscription to watch online. I will watch it later on by some means, YT or DVD or whatever.
I vaguely recall the jury was citing some breach of rules for the sport in question, the triathlon in that case and what other related sports it includes in some association. I only read it out of interest, because of a headline, otherwise I don't follow that sport, but I am sure it could be looked up on Google. LOL @ Froome's 5 victories, not likely to happen but that may not be because the rules are not there, just not enforced like in a machine like fashion or overlooked. I think, team or no team sport, the idea behind having such a rule still applies and I would rather bet on it being in the rules of UCI than not.
I believe the bicycling sport also has some rules like that and probably jury turned blind eye to it or just didn't think of it, or didn't want to think of it or if they did, they decided to keep quiet on that count. Reason for such a rule is that such cases can have impact on outside race related activities like betting on who wins etc. Also it comes close to the area of rigging the results for reasons other than just a betting sport. Its like in soccer match one team loses the match because they got paid behind the scenes by other clubs for which it is worthwhile to pay to stay in some tournaments, or what not. I am just outlining the wider area it can affect and don't want to argue it in some precise terms. I am not a lawyer anyway
Not saying any of that applies here at all, just that such behavior opens the way to its more frequent occurrence and before long, there will be rumors that such a and such two racers did that because of upcoming team change, to make somebody more attractive to other teams if he has this win to his credit... there is no limit to speculations like that. But mainly the rules are to keep the sport attractive to spectators. And some argument, like that it can actually bring more public interest in bike racing if such nice displays of sportsmanship happen more often, may be true, but sporting rules probably are not designed around this premise.
I am not particular fan of Kwiatkowski (LOL even have to copy paste his name) but upon reading that it was his only win in major cycling venues, I was glad for him (never mind that like you I am also not rooting for Ineos otherwise). Usually I root for cases like this in the few sports I follow, because they well deserve it. I believe he was always domestic on the big races and never got the opportunity to contend for a win.
I wonder if Sagan can swing a win tomorrow to get the green jersey, as above here someone said he could still win it and I take it, that means winning the stage in Paris. I disliked some of his displays of bravado after stage wins years back, but came to like him anyway, after all, he is almost my countryman and I can only be proud of him
Last edited by vane171; 09-19-20 at 07:22 PM.
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09-19-20, 06:54 PM
#284
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So is anyone else but me BLOWN away by today's TT and the yellow jersey going to Pogacar?? Not to under estimate him as a rider, but no one on the broadcast predicted or could have predicted how fast Pogacar went today
and now he wins the yellow, polka dot and white jerseys, and wins the tour at 21
I mean really! Saving the TT for stage 20 made it super watchable and exciting. Jumbo Visma has to be reeling after leading and riding from the front of the peleton all tour
and now he wins the yellow, polka dot and white jerseys, and wins the tour at 21
I mean really! Saving the TT for stage 20 made it super watchable and exciting. Jumbo Visma has to be reeling after leading and riding from the front of the peleton all tour
Pogacar is definitely for real. Deserves it big time!
09-19-20, 08:13 PM
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Then let's go back 9 years and disqualify Wiggins and give Froome that 5th victory that has now has no shot at ever claiming.
Sorry you didn't get to watch the most entertaining TdF in the last 30+ years.
Even an intractable Sky/Ineos hater like me had zero issue with that finish. Either/both of them deserved it. Even though Carapaz likely could have gapped Kwiatkowski at the end, he would not have been in the position he was in without all the work that #5 put in.
Vane, are you sure that the women you referenced were disqualified for crossing the line together, or rather because triathlon is a much more individual sport and that rules prohibit cooperation between contestants?
Sorry you didn't get to watch the most entertaining TdF in the last 30+ years.
Even an intractable Sky/Ineos hater like me had zero issue with that finish. Either/both of them deserved it. Even though Carapaz likely could have gapped Kwiatkowski at the end, he would not have been in the position he was in without all the work that #5 put in.
Vane, are you sure that the women you referenced were disqualified for crossing the line together, or rather because triathlon is a much more individual sport and that rules prohibit cooperation between contestants?
09-19-20, 09:24 PM
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So is anyone else but me BLOWN away by today's TT and the yellow jersey going to Pogacar?? Not to under estimate him as a rider, but no one on the broadcast predicted or could have predicted how fast Pogacar went today
and now he wins the yellow, polka dot and white jerseys, and wins the tour at 21
I mean really! Saving the TT for stage 20 made it super watchable and exciting. Jumbo Visma has to be reeling after leading and riding from the front of the peleton all tour
and now he wins the yellow, polka dot and white jerseys, and wins the tour at 21
I mean really! Saving the TT for stage 20 made it super watchable and exciting. Jumbo Visma has to be reeling after leading and riding from the front of the peleton all tour
the drama was doubled because both remarkable things happened. Roglic, the time trial expert ,hit a performance wall and folded, and Pogacar put in the most spectacular ride. As Doumlin said afterwards, "I don't know how Pogacar climbed a minute faster than I did,"
I feel bad for JV. They dominated the whole tour and they clearly had the best team, and it all fell apart in the end.
amazing that JV had positions 2,4 and 5 on the ITT. What a team.
09-20-20, 12:23 AM
#287
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vane171 , sorry you're stranded.
I don't know the UCI rules and didn't check them, but as a low level USA Cycling ref, I figured I'd glance at the USA Cycling rules to re-educate myself in how they might apply to this situation. And to flatten the cat one last (I hope) time.
There's a general rule against "Offering, conspiring, or attempting to cause any race to result otherwise than on its merits." There's a road cycling rule that limits support: "Tires, tools, pumps, wheels, and bicycles may be exchanged only among members of the same team and a rider may not sacrifice himself for another rider unless on the same team."
I don't think it would have happened if they were on different teams. And, if it did, there would have been some jury involvement.
With them on the same team, the "sacrifice...for another rider" thing is moot. By the way, if it were to be applied, only the second place rider is sacrificing but not the first place. So you could further bludgeon Carapaz but no Kwiatkowski violation.
What about saying they conspired to cause the race to result otherwise than on its merits? There's perhaps more substance there. However, one could argue the sporting result was that they merited first and second, and that's what they got, and a steel cage match between teammates need not result. To make that a violation, you'd have to really split hairs and get all righteous about the merits of first place vs. second and somehow ignore the constant conspiring that goes on within the teams.
Net: I don't see any violation. Again, USAC, not UCI. So N/A, but FYI.
IMHO, the triathlon precedent is irrelevant and a red herring. I acknowledge the rigged betting concept and concern, but don't think it applies. To cycling very well in general due to the nature of it not being a Team A vs Team B event, and to the degree that it still does apply to cycling then I'd kick it down again because they're on the same team and conspiring is not only authorized but encouraged. I'd change that opinion in a heartbeat if Carapaz had a bet on Kwiatkoski in a sports book somewhere, and several other rules would kick in, but I don't think any of us are suggesting that's the case. As for the poor schmuck who bet it all on Carapaz in Paddy Power, too bad. The rules don't exist to serve him and that's not a lens through which to view the sporting outcome.
I don't know the UCI rules and didn't check them, but as a low level USA Cycling ref, I figured I'd glance at the USA Cycling rules to re-educate myself in how they might apply to this situation. And to flatten the cat one last (I hope) time.
There's a general rule against "Offering, conspiring, or attempting to cause any race to result otherwise than on its merits." There's a road cycling rule that limits support: "Tires, tools, pumps, wheels, and bicycles may be exchanged only among members of the same team and a rider may not sacrifice himself for another rider unless on the same team."
I don't think it would have happened if they were on different teams. And, if it did, there would have been some jury involvement.
With them on the same team, the "sacrifice...for another rider" thing is moot. By the way, if it were to be applied, only the second place rider is sacrificing but not the first place. So you could further bludgeon Carapaz but no Kwiatkowski violation.
What about saying they conspired to cause the race to result otherwise than on its merits? There's perhaps more substance there. However, one could argue the sporting result was that they merited first and second, and that's what they got, and a steel cage match between teammates need not result. To make that a violation, you'd have to really split hairs and get all righteous about the merits of first place vs. second and somehow ignore the constant conspiring that goes on within the teams.
Net: I don't see any violation. Again, USAC, not UCI. So N/A, but FYI.
IMHO, the triathlon precedent is irrelevant and a red herring. I acknowledge the rigged betting concept and concern, but don't think it applies. To cycling very well in general due to the nature of it not being a Team A vs Team B event, and to the degree that it still does apply to cycling then I'd kick it down again because they're on the same team and conspiring is not only authorized but encouraged. I'd change that opinion in a heartbeat if Carapaz had a bet on Kwiatkoski in a sports book somewhere, and several other rules would kick in, but I don't think any of us are suggesting that's the case. As for the poor schmuck who bet it all on Carapaz in Paddy Power, too bad. The rules don't exist to serve him and that's not a lens through which to view the sporting outcome.
Last edited by slcbob; 09-20-20 at 01:44 AM.
09-20-20, 02:18 AM
#288
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Not sure on this point (triathlon being individual, not team sport (even if triathlon racers likely are part of a team, just not racing as a team), probably you have an argument there.
Thanks for the expressed sympathy for me, regarding watching TDF. Usually am in EU and watch for free on Eurosport and my country (CR) also has free TDF every year. Except due to covid, I am stuck in Canada for the summer and no sport channel (we have here all 5 TSN channels) carries TDF this year like they did last years... no idea why not this year. I wouldn't care to pay some subscription to watch online. I will watch it later on by some means, YT or DVD or whatever.
I vaguely recall the jury was citing some breach of rules for the sport in question, the triathlon in that case and what other related sports it includes in some association. I only read it out of interest, because of a headline, otherwise I don't follow that sport, but I am sure it could be looked up on Google. LOL @ Froome's 5 victories, not likely to happen but that may not be because the rules are not there, just not enforced like in a machine like fashion or overlooked. I think, team or no team sport, the idea behind having such a rule still applies and I would rather bet on it being in the rules of UCI than not.
I believe the bicycling sport also has some rules like that and probably jury turned blind eye to it or just didn't think of it, or didn't want to think of it or if they did, they decided to keep quiet on that count. Reason for such a rule is that such cases can have impact on outside race related activities like betting on who wins etc. Also it comes close to the area of rigging the results for reasons other than just a betting sport. Its like in soccer match one team loses the match because they got paid behind the scenes by other clubs for which it is worthwhile to pay to stay in some tournaments, or what not. I am just outlining the wider area it can affect and don't want to argue it in some precise terms. I am not a lawyer anyway
Not saying any of that applies here at all, just that such behavior opens the way to its more frequent occurrence and before long, there will be rumors that such a and such two racers did that because of upcoming team change, to make somebody more attractive to other teams if he has this win to his credit... there is no limit to speculations like that. But mainly the rules are to keep the sport attractive to spectators. And some argument, like that it can actually bring more public interest in bike racing if such nice displays of sportsmanship happen more often, may be true, but sporting rules probably are not designed around this premise.
I am not particular fan of Kwiatkowski (LOL even have to copy paste his name) but upon reading that it was his only win in major cycling venues, I was glad for him (never mind that like you I am also not rooting for Ineos otherwise). Usually I root for cases like this in the few sports I follow, because they well deserve it. I believe he was always domestic on the big races and never got the opportunity to contend for a win.
I wonder if Sagan can swing a win tomorrow to get the green jersey, as above here someone said he could still win it and I take it, that means winning the stage in Paris. I disliked some of his displays of bravado after stage wins years back, but came to like him anyway, after all, he is almost my countryman and I can only be proud of him
Thanks for the expressed sympathy for me, regarding watching TDF. Usually am in EU and watch for free on Eurosport and my country (CR) also has free TDF every year. Except due to covid, I am stuck in Canada for the summer and no sport channel (we have here all 5 TSN channels) carries TDF this year like they did last years... no idea why not this year. I wouldn't care to pay some subscription to watch online. I will watch it later on by some means, YT or DVD or whatever.
I vaguely recall the jury was citing some breach of rules for the sport in question, the triathlon in that case and what other related sports it includes in some association. I only read it out of interest, because of a headline, otherwise I don't follow that sport, but I am sure it could be looked up on Google. LOL @ Froome's 5 victories, not likely to happen but that may not be because the rules are not there, just not enforced like in a machine like fashion or overlooked. I think, team or no team sport, the idea behind having such a rule still applies and I would rather bet on it being in the rules of UCI than not.
I believe the bicycling sport also has some rules like that and probably jury turned blind eye to it or just didn't think of it, or didn't want to think of it or if they did, they decided to keep quiet on that count. Reason for such a rule is that such cases can have impact on outside race related activities like betting on who wins etc. Also it comes close to the area of rigging the results for reasons other than just a betting sport. Its like in soccer match one team loses the match because they got paid behind the scenes by other clubs for which it is worthwhile to pay to stay in some tournaments, or what not. I am just outlining the wider area it can affect and don't want to argue it in some precise terms. I am not a lawyer anyway
Not saying any of that applies here at all, just that such behavior opens the way to its more frequent occurrence and before long, there will be rumors that such a and such two racers did that because of upcoming team change, to make somebody more attractive to other teams if he has this win to his credit... there is no limit to speculations like that. But mainly the rules are to keep the sport attractive to spectators. And some argument, like that it can actually bring more public interest in bike racing if such nice displays of sportsmanship happen more often, may be true, but sporting rules probably are not designed around this premise.
I am not particular fan of Kwiatkowski (LOL even have to copy paste his name) but upon reading that it was his only win in major cycling venues, I was glad for him (never mind that like you I am also not rooting for Ineos otherwise). Usually I root for cases like this in the few sports I follow, because they well deserve it. I believe he was always domestic on the big races and never got the opportunity to contend for a win.
I wonder if Sagan can swing a win tomorrow to get the green jersey, as above here someone said he could still win it and I take it, that means winning the stage in Paris. I disliked some of his displays of bravado after stage wins years back, but came to like him anyway, after all, he is almost my countryman and I can only be proud of him
Last edited by diphthong; 09-20-20 at 02:50 AM.
09-20-20, 02:30 AM
#289
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Yes. Blown away. Time trials are usually so dull. This one rocked.
the drama was doubled because both remarkable things happened. Roglic, the time trial expert ,hit a performance wall and folded, and Pogacar put in the most spectacular ride. As Doumlin said afterwards, "I don't know how Pogacar climbed a minute faster than I did,"
I feel bad for JV. They dominated the whole tour and they clearly had the best team, and it all fell apart in the end.
amazing that JV had positions 2,4 and 5 on the ITT. What a team.
the drama was doubled because both remarkable things happened. Roglic, the time trial expert ,hit a performance wall and folded, and Pogacar put in the most spectacular ride. As Doumlin said afterwards, "I don't know how Pogacar climbed a minute faster than I did,"
I feel bad for JV. They dominated the whole tour and they clearly had the best team, and it all fell apart in the end.
amazing that JV had positions 2,4 and 5 on the ITT. What a team.
against dumou, wout, roglic, gesink, g. bennett, kuss and a former tt world champ in t. martin...? advantage? tadej. holy bleep. next year's young guns tdf should be something special.
gimme carapaz, bernal, tadej, wout, mvdp, hirschi, sivakov, kämna, remco, tejada, o rodriguez, vlasov, knox, oomen, l hamilton, pigeon...
Last edited by diphthong; 09-20-20 at 05:37 AM.
09-20-20, 02:46 AM
#290
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whatever happens or doesn't on stage 21...it's been a decent little tdf. the giro and the vuelta (fingers crossed) are both on the docket and coming up right quick in this
compressed racing year along with a bleep-ton of classics and one-days. late sept-early nov is going to be our woodstock. dropping acid...er...drinking a beer
right now.
compressed racing year along with a bleep-ton of classics and one-days. late sept-early nov is going to be our woodstock. dropping acid...er...drinking a beer
right now.
09-20-20, 05:41 AM
#291
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if 2020 holds true...sagan will win the green jersey with bennett totally blowing it/unable to answer the call,
09-20-20, 05:45 AM
#292
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sorry fly by night (stilll love that rush song) flyingburritobrothers in the tdf tissot game...changing captains at whim dq's you for this doofy league.
call it the dark end of the street, hippie boy.
call it the dark end of the street, hippie boy.
09-20-20, 06:00 AM
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^ there's cause to go all Meerijn Zeeman here.
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09-20-20, 06:26 AM
#294
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09-20-20, 06:31 AM
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Oh, oh too soon. Too soon.
Speaking of ridiculous UCI rules...
Ouch!!
Oh wait, even The Legend was highly critical...
Ohh ouch ouch ouch that stings!!
Speaking of ridiculous UCI rules...
From cycling news:In addition to that devastating blow, the team copped two 2,000CHF (£1,699) fines after Tom Dumoulin and Tony Martin were found to be in violation of UCI regulation 1.3.064.
That rule states that former world champions may wear rainbow bands on the collars and cuffs of their jerseys, but the ex-world TT champions' long-sleeved skinsuits instead featured the bands midway up their sleeves
That rule states that former world champions may wear rainbow bands on the collars and cuffs of their jerseys, but the ex-world TT champions' long-sleeved skinsuits instead featured the bands midway up their sleeves
Oh wait, even The Legend was highly critical...
Merckx argued that Jumbo-Visma had "above all, raced stupidly. For the last three weeks, they’ve been all out, not letting a thing happen, but they just forgot this young lad at 50 seconds [57 seconds - Ed.] What a mistake to make!"
09-20-20, 06:32 AM
#296
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[QUOTE=slcbob;21703541]^ there's cause to go all Meerijn Zeeman here.[/QUOTE
there'll be a slight tdf tissot final standings shakeup because of a captain change in the first week. tdf gbbg standings will be true as an downhill, vengeful arrow. one of the reasons i like the velogames vehicle.
slow? yes. plodding? definitely. ultimately accurate and free of imagined, potential and enacted shenanigans? yes.
there'll be a slight tdf tissot final standings shakeup because of a captain change in the first week. tdf gbbg standings will be true as an downhill, vengeful arrow. one of the reasons i like the velogames vehicle.
slow? yes. plodding? definitely. ultimately accurate and free of imagined, potential and enacted shenanigans? yes.
Last edited by diphthong; 09-20-20 at 06:40 AM.
09-20-20, 06:36 AM
#297
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1969? anyone?
09-20-20, 07:31 AM
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there'll be a slight tdf tissot final standings shakeup because of a captain change in the first week. tdf gbbg standings will be true as an downhill, vengeful arrow. one of the reasons i like the velogames vehicle.
slow? yes. plodding? definitely. ultimately accurate and free of imagined, potential and enacted shenanigans? yes.
If you're referring to me, I did change captain from Pinot to Pogacar. Pinot had lost almost 19 minutes on stage 8, and was clearly out of contention. If Groupama had another rider who was a GC contender, they certainly would have pulled support and ridden for another rider. I did read back, and I see that it was said that the rider had to be out - so I guess I did break the rule, though I don't feel like I violated the spirit of it.
Anything to be said about jumping in the league on day 21 with captains changed to suit the stage repeatedly?
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Last edited by USAZorro; 09-20-20 at 08:44 AM.
09-20-20, 08:07 AM
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09-20-20, 09:00 AM
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Both she and burrito boy need a reckoning with Ra the Sun God. AKA Eddie Merckx, who appreciates her ends but surely must frown on the means.
Zorro! Say it isn't so! You might have gotten away with it if it wasn't for that meddling burrito kid, +/- the Catholic guilt and post reading cross-threading prompting you to sing like a canary. But "spirit"? Ha ha ha ha, Talk to the hand. The mighty hand of our ruthless commissaire.
