Browning find - Is this frame any Good?
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Browning find - Is this frame any Good?
I picked up what I thought was a junker today. I gave the guy what he was asking because it had Suntour ratcheting barcons and quick release skewers - I figure wheels must be aluminum if it has skewers. When I got home and started to look more closely at parts to scavenge I realized that the shifting was pretty respectable - Suntour V luxe rear. Comp V Suntour front derailleur and the barcons. Then I noticed forged dropouts, a bunch of French parts and Weinmann/Normandy wheels, Not a bad score.
My question is then, is this frameset better than a high tensile steel? I thought it might end up in recycling but it looks not too shabby. Let me know your thoughts.
My question is then, is this frameset better than a high tensile steel? I thought it might end up in recycling but it looks not too shabby. Let me know your thoughts.
Last edited by Dannyboy21; 10-07-20 at 08:30 PM.
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the forum has had several discussion threads on these
you can use the search function to pull them up if wished
certainly looks to be "one of the good ones"
date appears 1974-75
pedals slightly later than cycle; all else contemporaneous
the threads discuss who were the actual manufacturers
-----
the forum has had several discussion threads on these
you can use the search function to pull them up if wished
certainly looks to be "one of the good ones"
date appears 1974-75
pedals slightly later than cycle; all else contemporaneous
the threads discuss who were the actual manufacturers
-----
Last edited by juvela; 10-06-20 at 04:45 PM. Reason: addition
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Thanks for the pictures. Good, yes. This one has conventional derailleurs. Nothing wrong with that, however, Browning has an interesting history of having invented a clever front gear change system. As a result they built bicycles. Now we need someone more expert than me to assess how good it is. But there is nothing inherently bad about it and it should be a good serviceable and enjoyable bike with some interesting history. An American bike company before Trek, Specialized, Cannondale, Gary Fisher, Kline and all.
This is the same Browning family that makes guns. It is notable that there are a number of gun makers that made bicycles. BSA and Miyata come to mind right away. There are probably more.
You have an mix of French and Japanese components. All good stuff for the time though.
This is the same Browning family that makes guns. It is notable that there are a number of gun makers that made bicycles. BSA and Miyata come to mind right away. There are probably more.
You have an mix of French and Japanese components. All good stuff for the time though.
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Thanks for the pictures. Good, yes. This one has conventional derailleurs. Nothing wrong with that, however, Browning has an interesting history of having invented a clever front gear change system. As a result they built bicycles. Now we need someone more expert than me to assess how good it is. But there is nothing inherently bad about it and it should be a good serviceable and enjoyable bike with some interesting history. An American bike company before Trek, Specialized, Cannondale, Gary Fisher, Kline and all.
This is the same Browning family that makes guns. It is notable that there are a number of gun makers that made bicycles. BSA and Miyata come to mind right away. There are probably more.
You have an mix of French and Japanese components. All good stuff for the time though.
This is the same Browning family that makes guns. It is notable that there are a number of gun makers that made bicycles. BSA and Miyata come to mind right away. There are probably more.
You have an mix of French and Japanese components. All good stuff for the time though.
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This is the same Browning family that makes guns. It is notable that there are a number of gun makers that made bicycles. BSA and Miyata come to mind right away. There are probably more.
You have an mix of French and Japanese components. All good stuff for the time though.
Last edited by Dannyboy21; 10-06-20 at 05:04 PM. Reason: correction
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Our google overlord tells me that the model is Grade V, that was the top of the line for Browning. I couldn't find any info on the frame tubing.
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the forum has had several discussion threads on these
you can use the search function to pull them up if wished
certainly looks to be "one of the good ones"
date appears 1974-75
pedals slightly later than cycle; all else contemporaneous
the threads discuss who were the actual manufacturers
-----
the forum has had several discussion threads on these
you can use the search function to pull them up if wished
certainly looks to be "one of the good ones"
date appears 1974-75
pedals slightly later than cycle; all else contemporaneous
the threads discuss who were the actual manufacturers
-----
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frame certainly appears to have been fabricated in France or Belgium
the low countries began using Shimano bits for quality frames in 1973
would expect it to have been constructed with one of the tubesets from Ateliers de La Rive, as a "first guess"
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frame certainly appears to have been fabricated in France or Belgium
the low countries began using Shimano bits for quality frames in 1973
would expect it to have been constructed with one of the tubesets from Ateliers de La Rive, as a "first guess"
-----
Last edited by juvela; 10-06-20 at 05:08 PM. Reason: addition
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"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
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regarding gun manufacturers and cycle & cycle fittings manufacturers -
there is/was a small cluster of firms based in and around the city of Liege in Belgium who did both. do not know to what extent they may have done both simultaneously or moved back and forth between the two industries.
should not write more on this as we have so many low countries members with first hand knowledge of the industries in this area of Belgium.
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regarding gun manufacturers and cycle & cycle fittings manufacturers -
there is/was a small cluster of firms based in and around the city of Liege in Belgium who did both. do not know to what extent they may have done both simultaneously or moved back and forth between the two industries.
should not write more on this as we have so many low countries members with first hand knowledge of the industries in this area of Belgium.
-----
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There seems to be a little anecdotal evidence (BF thread 2011 and one internet source) that at least the main triangle might be Reynolds 531, but nothing conclusive. Wouldnt want to throw that out.
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If the price was low enough, I would clean it up and ride it. The Browning mark would be why I would keep it.
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Take measurements! What's the seatpost diameter and tubing OD? Weight of framset? If it has forged drops very likely it's some kind of CrMo main triangle.
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It may also be a point to consider that earlier Browning rifles were made in Belgium (FN I believe?) and tend to be highly coveted. I owned one for a bit that had a mere 3 digit serial number. Whether this relationship extended to bicycles I have no idea but I suppose it’s not out of the question ?
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It may also be a point to consider that earlier Browning rifles were made in Belgium (FN I believe?) and tend to be highly coveted. I owned one for a bit that had a mere 3 digit serial number. Whether this relationship extended to bicycles I have no idea but I suppose it’s not out of the question ?
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The Browning bicycle line was purely a 1970s phenomenon, and was part of the company's desire to branch out in the sporting goods world. These were built in the same time frame that manufacturing firearms in Europe was getting pricey enough that some Browning sporting arms were built in Japan, notably some .22 rifles. The bike line as I remember it off the top of my head was a basic entry level 10-speed, a nicer 10-speed and this one, which was probably 3 tubes something. The workmanship never blew up my kilt, but it's still a better than average 70s 10-speed, and it does at least have forged dropouts. After the bike boom they kinda went away. They were at least better built than John Deere's entries to the field!
Jonathan Moses Browning's firearms designs were farmed out to various American manufacturers - Winchester, Remington, and most especially Colt. In Europe, Fabrique National (FN) was their prime outlet, and FN ALWAYS took Mr. Browning seriously.
Jonathan Moses Browning's firearms designs were farmed out to various American manufacturers - Winchester, Remington, and most especially Colt. In Europe, Fabrique National (FN) was their prime outlet, and FN ALWAYS took Mr. Browning seriously.
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two details which place the frame in the mid-range by eye are the use of a welded crown and a square cut seat lug
there were millions of hi-tensile frames manufactureed which received forged crowns such as the Raleigh Gran Prix
it is a cost cutting corner to see a welded crown on a cycle presumably constructed of quality tubing
square cut seat lugs are very production and associated with lower end models; usually even on mid-level bikes they are scalloped
contour of blades makes me think they are not quality; frame likely a "three-tuber" whatever the tubing
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two details which place the frame in the mid-range by eye are the use of a welded crown and a square cut seat lug
there were millions of hi-tensile frames manufactureed which received forged crowns such as the Raleigh Gran Prix
it is a cost cutting corner to see a welded crown on a cycle presumably constructed of quality tubing
square cut seat lugs are very production and associated with lower end models; usually even on mid-level bikes they are scalloped
contour of blades makes me think they are not quality; frame likely a "three-tuber" whatever the tubing
-----
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two details which place the frame in the mid-range by eye are the use of a welded crown and a square cut seat lug
there were millions of hi-tensile frames manufactureed which received forged crowns such as the Raleigh Gran Prix
it is a cost cutting corner to see a welded crown on a cycle presumably constructed of quality tubing
square cut seat lugs are very production and associated with lower end models; usually even on mid-level bikes they are scalloped
contour of blades makes me think they are not quality; frame likely a "three-tuber" whatever the tubing
-----
two details which place the frame in the mid-range by eye are the use of a welded crown and a square cut seat lug
there were millions of hi-tensile frames manufactureed which received forged crowns such as the Raleigh Gran Prix
it is a cost cutting corner to see a welded crown on a cycle presumably constructed of quality tubing
square cut seat lugs are very production and associated with lower end models; usually even on mid-level bikes they are scalloped
contour of blades makes me think they are not quality; frame likely a "three-tuber" whatever the tubing
-----
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an ESGE plate style bridge fits in with the idea of a low countries origin
some builders there mount them on frames higher up the range than those of other lands
forum member non-fixie posted last week a newly taken in Dutch house branded cycle which he determined to be eleven tube Reynolds yet wears an ESGE -
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...pia-sport.html
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an ESGE plate style bridge fits in with the idea of a low countries origin
some builders there mount them on frames higher up the range than those of other lands
forum member non-fixie posted last week a newly taken in Dutch house branded cycle which he determined to be eleven tube Reynolds yet wears an ESGE -
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...pia-sport.html
-----
Last edited by juvela; 10-08-20 at 07:28 AM. Reason: addition
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All these frame detail notes had me inspecting a 1977 Austro-Daimler AD SLE that is sitting here.
Shimano dropouts w/threaded adjusters, welded fork crown, 531 butted main tubes. No chrome.
Lugs are slightly nicer, but the modest Stronglight TS cranks not so much.
Huret Challenger derailers and GB stem. Rigida 1319's on Normandy HF hubs.
Plain aluminum seat pin, Weinmann sidepulls.
The subject OP's bicycle begs for geometry (angles) measurement and a test-ride to judge it's character. Some of these odd-ball finds turn out to be fabulous riders, you never know!
Shimano dropouts w/threaded adjusters, welded fork crown, 531 butted main tubes. No chrome.
Lugs are slightly nicer, but the modest Stronglight TS cranks not so much.
Huret Challenger derailers and GB stem. Rigida 1319's on Normandy HF hubs.
Plain aluminum seat pin, Weinmann sidepulls.
The subject OP's bicycle begs for geometry (angles) measurement and a test-ride to judge it's character. Some of these odd-ball finds turn out to be fabulous riders, you never know!
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Only honest answer is "You ride it and tell us." One of my best riding bikes is an old, cheap Apollo that is made of God Knows What. Nothing super special about the vintage parts I put on it, but it just goes.
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Does it have 27" wheels now? Would make a nice commuter with 700c wheelset and anti-theft patina but then you'd want to keep the brakes on it. Will make someone happy at the co-op, no matter the tubing forged drops make for a reliable build.
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It does have 27 inch wheels. Seat post is 27.0mm. Clips on top tube are standard diameter as is the front derailleur..
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Hijacking my own thread! I am moving the good and French parts over to my Gitane TdF frameset as was the original plan. Starting to look great. Big question ... what is up with the rear mech hanger being smooth bored with no stop? The derailleur bolt is too wide anyway. Do I have to make the threads myself or is this as it is supposed to be? My first decent French bike so, I don't know much about them at all.
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you can run a metric 10.0mm X 1.0 tap through there
you still to cut or grind a stop at the four o'clock position to convert the Juy hanger to be compatible with non-Juy mechs
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you can run a metric 10.0mm X 1.0 tap through there
you still to cut or grind a stop at the four o'clock position to convert the Juy hanger to be compatible with non-Juy mechs
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