Narhay

New build, cable and housings are new. Changed cable and housing and ferrules twice now, same issue. Aligned derailleur hanger. New chain, new cassette.

ST-5700 and RD-5700 are downshifting (to lower gear) mostly ok.

It takes 2 clicks for it to upshift to one higher gear and then indexes so-so one gear behind what it should be until it gets to the second highest gear. Pulling on the cable as if it were not letting enough tension out when it is fully upshifted but sitting in the second highest cog doesnt seem to help it onto the highest gear in case the cable was sticking or had excess friction. Only pushing on the derailleur body seems to allow it to go to the smallest cog. Tried a different RD and same issue. Cable guides look good, no friction. Let out limit screw all the way in case that was the issue but no. The derailleur still has some movement towards the dropout so it does have enough range.

I've indexed hundreds of rear derailleurs and I am at a loss for this one. I dont know.

RiddleOfSteel

Am I correct to assume that you've adjusted cable tension at the rear derailleur to fine tune things? And that the cable routing out of the shifter is correct?

After tightening the cable at the RD, I will take the cable (running along the down tube) and pull it away from the down tube several times, with "intent" (but smoothly), so as to seat the cables and housings in their cable stops. Otherwise, it just takes forever to settle them and it give false "out of tune" readings even as it was in tune on the stand.

mechanicmatt

Does it feel like it is the shifter at all? If so hose it down with some electrical cleaner. Like dripping out of everywhere hose it. Then shift it around and hose it again. 8 out of 10 times it will work.

Sometimes, if the derailleur is well used the internal spring inside the parallelogram can lose its springness and either the spring or the derailleur needs to be replaced.

mechanicmatt

Also oil the pivot areas with some TriFlow or whatever you like to use. It can help.

bwilli88 

Can you physically move the derailleur by hand up to the last/largest cog?

Prowler 

[QUOTE=RiddleOfSteel;21731995
After tightening the cable at the RD, I will take the cable (running along the down tube) and pull it away from the down tube several times, with "intent" (but smoothly), so as to seat the cables and housings in their cable stops. Otherwise, it just takes forever to settle them and it give false "out of tune" readings even as it was in tune on the stand.[/QUOTE]

Yes, do this. It also stretches the new cable nicely. This is one reason I dislike old, and brand new bikes, with full length housings. You cannot stretch the cables and seat the end caps.

Also, (I think you said you did I this) disconnect the cable and operate the RD by hand to ensure it moves freely and full range. Fundamental trouble shooting: separate a system into its component pieces, ensure each piece works properly then make the system more complex by putting them back together.

Be sure the hanger/RD is aligned properly, absolutely parallel to the cogs and rim. Index shifting is particularly sensitive to misalignment. I've effected many a "miracle cure" on indexed systems with a 5 minute hanger alignment adjustment.

jamesdak 

My bet is on gunked up grease in the shifter. Flush it out good (WD 40 or the like) and then relube with Triflow.

Narhay

Thanks everyone. I will flush the shifter out today and see if that helps. Derailleur hanger is aligned, the derailleur cable tension is tuned so that it should be properly indexing but doesn't.

nlerner

Sounds like the hanger is aligned and the RD travels appropriately if you move it by hand; thus, I'd think the problem was in the shifter or the cable itself. I've found these systems are really sensitive to cable tension. Plus, as others have pointed out, giving the shifter a thorough flush might be the ticket.

Narhay

I've flushed it and I'll flush it a few more times for good measure.

Otherwise I'll do a methodical separation of components to determine fault.

sallen73

i have a very similar problem: my LBS says the pivot spring is getting worn, which is preventing the derailleur from keeping proper tension.
i've learned to treat my brifter like a friction shifter: move the lever until i hear the chain moving.

Narhay

I used an RD-7900 I know is good and the results were the same so at least the RD portion appears to be ok.

RobbieTunes

Especially 5700 and 6700. You can get to the smallest cog and then click one more time, sort of, but it’s not a shift.

That is why I “sight in” the shifts with no chain, then tweak the alignment to the 2nd cog in.

Also, and #1 on my s - - t list for 5700 and 6700: cable end placement in the shifter body cradle. The head likes to migrate upwards into a crevice not designed to hold it. It generates the issue you have, and also breaks off there after a while. Quite a bend there.

The slack phony bottom shift and the cable head cradle issue pretty much encompass the problems I’ve seen.

dddd

With Shimano 10s road setups, I've often enough found that if SRAM chain were used, that I never could get the shifting right, exhibiting similar symptoms as here (acting like the cables perhaps have too much friction).
Replacing with Shimano chain, with no other changes, typically resolved the persistent issue.

So I have to ask, if the OP is perhaps using SRAM chain?

tricky 

Interesting. I was having an issue with 10 speed and I always use SRAM because of the quick link. Might need to revisit Shimano chains and use something like a Wipperman quick link. I hate those Shimano pins...

dddd

Many people who use Shimano chain for the reasons that I do will buy a KMC Missing link instead of using the Shimano pin.

I usually use the Shimano pins because I don't ever remove the chain for cleaning.

Some Shimano 10s chains are directional and must be installed with sideplate text facing outward.

Shimano pins should always be installed in the leading-direction holes in the outer side plates (for strength) and should always be installed from the non-driveside (so as to avoid having the pin's fractured end possibly contacting the next-largest cog).

An 8s or 10s SRAM connector will fit too tightly on an 8s or 10s Shimano chain, though a 9s or 11s SRAM connector will work well on a 9s or 11s Shimano chain.
The KMC connectors works on all brands, though they offer two different widths for 8s chain having 7.1 or 7.3mm width.

Classtime 

Sometimes (like all the time), you need new cables and housings. Those things are so sensitive to friction. Especially after they hid the cables under the bar tape.

dddd

I think that the OP stated that they replaced the cables and housings and still having problems.

If this were perhaps a carbon Trek from certain years, friction between the stainless cable and stainless under-bb cable guide can create real problems on it's own, though a thick plastic noodle can be crimped into the 2-legged retaining tunnel and eliminate the cold-welding friction issue.
Similarly with vintage frames, any metal-on-metal of the cable at the bb can have a quite-significant effect on cable movement, and I install (using glue if needed) plastic noodle there even on my friction-shifted bikes!

I really should have mentioned these issues in my earlier post, since the type of frame wasn't mentioned.

So, in summary, with Shimano 10s road setups, no SRAM chain and no metal-to-metal contact along the cable's path.

Classtime 

Yep. He did mention new cables. Oops. Regarding cables, be super meticulous on finishing the ends. Dremel at 90 degrees and Shimano ferrules.

RobbieTunes

Why aren’t all these things in the manual?

Wait......a manual?

Narhay

Ok this is what I have done so far to no effect.

Limits are fine. Without the cable the derailleur moves fine between smallest and largest cog freely.
RD switched out for another. No difference.
Cable and all housings and ferrules switched out twice. No difference.
Lubed all contact points of the cable. No difference
Flushed out shifter. No difference.
Pull on cable after non-shift to see if it has friction. No difference.

It indexes going up to a bigger cog fairly well, but not always. Going to a smaller cog it sometimes does nothing, then another shift and then will jump down 2. Like the shifter doesn't want to release or pull cable consistently.

I'm at a loss. At this point the only constant is the shifter and I dont have another not already mounted on a bike to check.

noglider 

I recently had a different problem but the remedies suggested might help your problem. See my thread.

beicster 

I had a set of 6500 shifters and was having similar problems. I tried everything you tried. When I finally took the shifter off the bike and shook it, I could hear something bouncing around in it. At some point as I was taking it apart, a broken piece of spring fell out. I can only assume that was the problem since I never tried to replace it.