Roger M

I'm needing a lower gear on my Campagnolo 8 speed bike. 39/25 is what I have no for a low gear. I've seen Miche cassettes in 13-28, but I'm having a tough time finding one from a reliable/trustworthy seller, and at a reasonable cost(with shipping).

On the other spectrum, I thought I read somewhere that you could modify 9/10 speed cogs to work? I haven't been able to find that information though.

AJI125 

Are you dealing with an 8s freehub body? https://branfordbike.com/new-page-1 Looks like some bodies might fit 9s cassettes with some notching, others might not.

There is a 9/8 conversion kit from WheelsMfg SHIFT-8 (and an old one from Campy I couldn't find) that takes a 9s loose cassette and respaces it to 8s dimensions, so basically a bag of spacers. I was able to get one from EIA through Ben's Cycle, was about $30 I recall (have to email them, PM me for a direct email address for a guy there). But I think the 9s cassettes would only fit on a 9s hub?

As far as the actual 8s cassettes, when I was going down that road (before I got the 9s hub) it was hit or miss trying to find a reliable source as you've found.

dddd

There were also the earlier "alphabet" style of Campy cassette cogs that fit on the old steel 8s freehub body having shallow splines. These lack the refined indexing features lf later 8s Campy cassettes, but I was able to fit just the 28t cog of this type in place of the original 26t cog for a couple of hill-climb events in 1990's Silicon Valley.
These cogs have what looks like a pattern of dots stamped into them as I recall, with every fourth(?) tooth having a "pinched" tip, and their plating looks about like galvanization.

The HG-style of indexed sprockets really only became necessary when shifting levers moved to the handlebars, when it became possible for road bike riders to shift gears while riding off of the saddle. This was a safety issue.

Spaghetti Legs 

The Wheels Mfg spacer kit that I’m familiar with is to use on an 8 speed Shimano cassette and space it for Campy, necessitating a Shimano freehub. I’ve just gone with compact cranks on some of my 8 speed bikes.

AJI125 

They make/made quite a few. Here's the Campy 9-> 8: https://www.euroasiaimports.com/prod...t-154p5684.htm
A few of what they have/had: https://www.euroasiaimports.com/prod...s-Mfg-c154.htm

conspiratemus1

This can be done but it is a lot of work and destroys the sprockets for future use on a 9/10-sp freehub.

What you do is grind down the long splines of the 9/10-sp sprockets until they will fit into the grooves of your 8-sp freehub. It can be any version of the 8-sp freehubs, which were all steel.* There was backward compatibility between the newer 8-sp cassettes and the earlier freehubs, and this backward compatibility will be respected by your ground-down 9/10 sp. sprockets.


Use a coarse grinding point that fits in your electric drill. Use an 8-sp. sprocket as a template. Clamp the two sprockets together, accurately registered, in your vice. I use also a couple of C-clamps spaced around the pair so that when I move the sprockets in the vice (in order that I am always grinding close to the vice), I don't lose registration. Go around and around the bore of the sprockets until the splines match in depth. Note that one of the splines of a 9/10 is a different shape and needs to be hand-filed down flush with the sprocket. The sprockets aren't all that hard, but you may go through 2 or 3 grinding points -- the abrasive material wears away rapidly and doesn't produce sparks or heat up the sprockets much, not like a grinding wheel. It will get rapidly smaller once the first 3 or 4 mm have been worn off and there will be piles of abrasive grit around your vice when you are done. (If there is such a thing as a grinding wheel small enough to fit, and attaches to a bench grinder, obviously use that. But then you have to hold the sharp-tooth sprockets in your hands instead of in a vice, so be very careful. With a drill point I wear goggles and still have to be careful of the point walking and jumping as I work. but at least the sprockets can't go flying into my face. I don't have a bench grinder. Some sort of lathe would be best, I suppose, but my method is accessible with hand tools that everyone has.


Source for 9/10-sp sprockets. If all you need is one, a 28, say, my go-to is Marchisio sprockets available from Andrea Bellati Sport in Switzerland. https://www.bellatisport.com/shop/search/marchisio Shipping (to Canada, at least) is quick, by SwissPost, and not nearly as expensive as the couriers that many European retailers are insisting on for shipment to North America since the pandemic disrupted so many national postal systems. Marchisio sprockets are available as singles, though I think they can build you up a whole cassette if you wanted. You want the "Junior" version, not the "Aviotek". The latter have a lot of metal removed and require anti-flexion shims to keep from bending (at least on a tandem!). The Juniors have round holes drilled in the larger sizes and work just fine. You likely want the 9-speed version for your purpose -- the 10-sp has the usual dimple in the bottom sprocket to make it overhang the freehub a bit, just like OEM 10-speed cassettes. Marchisio makes (or did make, see below) sprockets for Shimano and their own proprietary version as well as Campag, so choose carefully. Likely all you need is one (or 2, to have as a spare) 28-tooth 9-sp Junior sprocket, no spacers, and the postage will be less than $10. I have used my credit card on their site several times securely and safely. They are honest and legit. Once they sent me the wrong size -- I had confused them by ordering a 10-sp sprocket and a 9-sp spacer for a weird project on the tandem -- and they promptly sent a replacement and told me just to keep the incorrect one.


Caution: Marchisio has unfortunately gone out of business. Andrea has assured me that Bellati has lots of inventory and doesn't expect to run out any time soon, but keep that in mind. Also, neither Marchisio nor Miche intends their sprockets to be used as ad hoc replacements in a Campagnolo (or Shimano) cassette and doesn't promise that, if you do mix them, shifting and indexing will be acceptable. But at least for 8- and 9- speed with one Marchisio sprocket used at the far end of the cassette (where the derailer stop screw helps) they seem to work just fine. Note that Marchisio doesn't use Campag-oid ramps on the sprockets, rather the teeth are twisted and dimpled a bit at intervals to help catch the chain. Once you have ground and filed off the protruding splines, you can position the sprocket anywhere you like around the clock, so try to land it so the twisted teeth line up with the spiral "gate" described by the ramps of the native Campag sprockets.


Also remember that a 9-sp sprocket is a bit thinner than 8-sp, so to keep centre-to-centre spacing equal, you may need to use a thin shim -- beer can aluminum is probably too thick -- under the regular Campag spacer against this sprocket. But in the bottom position this may not be necessary, especially with friction. (My experience was using them in a 9-sp setup, where the spacing was already correct.)


Finally, once you have modified a 9-sp sprocket this way, don't even think of using it on a 9-sp. freehub. The shortened splines will dig into the aluminum body (especially in these big low-gear sprockets) and rapidly destroy it.
*Edit: I'm reminded that there was an 8-sp freehub in aluminum alloy. My bet is that it wouldn't stand up to shallow splines and that is why they made the splines deeper when 9-sp. came out.

P!N20

What rear derailleur are you using? The Chorus and Record RD's from the early 90's allegedly had a 26T maximum capacity. (I've never tested it though.) The Veloce RD's from 1993 could do 28T.

A Campy 28T cog came up for sale a week or two back, but I don't see them come up that often. (Even 25 and 26 seem to be thin on the ground.)

RobbieTunes

I have similar issues.
I'm holding an 8sp Racing T group, a 9sp Racing T group, and a 10-sp Centaur triple group.
My lady wants easier gearing. She knows it will be slower. She just wants easier.
Her modern Trek is Di2 with 50/34 F and 11-34 rear, 11sp. That gets addictive.
I can't talk, I'm running 50T F and 10-42 rear on my main ride.

But this is Campy....The trips are 52/42/30. That 42 middle is almost unnecessary these days.
For the 8sp, I've got the Wheels Mfg spacer kit. I'll just go with as wide an 8sp cassette as I can get on Shimano wheels, and worry about chain wrap later.
For the 9sp, I'd like to get some spacers made, and use a 9sp Shimano 11-34 cassette on Shimano wheels. 52/42/30 and an 11-34 would need chain wrap out the wazoo.
For the 10sp, it looks like 29T is max on the rear, maybe 30T, so that's acceptable and do-able.
Then again, I have an 11sp Campy 11-32 cassette, and a crankset. I could build around that.
All this for an '88 Merckx Corsa Extra for her Christmas.

Whatever i don't use on hers goes on 'Legs' Basso, and maybe a Cinelli frame that was just born-again.

Roger M

This is probably the practical answer(and most economical). I have plenty of Shimano wheelsets that I could use.

However, The bike has a nice record 8 speed wheel. I'd like to keep using it.

Roger M

This is what I was looking for. Thanks. I don't have any9 speed bikes, so cutting up a 9 speed cassette won't bother me, and It will be modified for 8 speed permanantly.

Roger M

I have a Chorus 8 speed derailleur on it, but also have an 8 speed Racing T derailleur if that doesn't fly.

Roger M

I do have a Racing Triple crankset, f&r derailleurs and corresponding bottom bracket. I don't want to use them if I can find a cassette solution(C Record chainset is more appealing to me).

conspiratemus1

If you do a whole 9-speed Campag cassette, -- has to be Veloce, where all the sprockets are separate (that's all I see in 9-sp. anymore anyway) -- you will be using sprockets that are meant to work together and you will preserve the correct clocking of the ramps, so nice.....EXCEPT that you will have to drop one sprocket. Then the challenge will be preserve the spiral gate so it will shift accurately despite the missing member (less crucial with friction.) Best to just drop the second smallest sprocket of the 9. This is the easiest shift to make and is less sensitive to mis-alignment of the ramp. The rest of the cassette then stays properly timed. (You might find that your 8-sp smallest happens to match up better with the now-adjacent sprocket of the 9-sp; if so, use it instead.)

But using eight 9-speed sprockets, even with 8-speed spacers, will make the whole cassette 1.6 mm (8 x ~0.2) skinnier. It will sit noticeably lower on the freehub, likely preventing the lock ring from tightening against the smallest sprocket. You will need to put a spacer in the 1 - 1.5 mm range against the bottom of the freehub before the first, largest sprocket goes on, then check the lock ring. Trial and error. Then check derailer stops before riding. Absolutely for sure you will need to turn the low-gear limit screw in a lot further to arrest inward travel sooner. Almost absolutely for sure, indexing will not work, because the centre-to-centre spacing is too small by 0.2 mm each shift, but YMMV. But if you're not relying on indexing, there is nothing to stop you from slipping in one of your 8-sp sprockets instead of grinding away at a 9 that happens to have matching ramps. Save some work.

Remember that if you just add in a single big 9, you still have to delete one of your existing 8-sp sprockets. Again, shifting will likely suffer the least if you drop the second smallest, for the same reasons as above. You also, presumably, want to keep as many of the large sprockets as possible, so you can shift 23-25-28 and not 23-28, although again it's up to you.

Trouble-shooting erratic shifting will require you to consider, separately, the effects of a misaligned shifting gate (from missing sprockets) and any errors in spacing. When I did this with our back-up tandem, I was aiming for 9-speed spacing, so if I mixed an 8 in to make the gate work (or because it was late at night and I was tired of grinding), it was a simple (ha!) matter to sand down the 9-sp spacers on each side of the rogue 8 to make the centre-to-centre spacing right. It works, with indexing from Ergo 9. But your situation is the reverse: you would need to beef up the thickness of every 8-sp spacer by just the right amount to restore proper 8-sp spacing. If you're not using indexing, no need to worry about this. If you are, your best bet is to use as few 9-sp sprockets as possible -- like one, the big one -- to preserve 8-speed spacing across the cassette.

This effort is a compromise that can usefully extend the life and flexibility of an 8-speed system, which I love, btw. You just have to decide what your priorities are. If you need it to index on 8-speed, keep the 8-speed sprockets and try to maintain 8-sp spacing for the new big 9 (as I mentioned in my first post.) If your priority is really smooth shifts onto that new big sprocket, it will work better if it is mated with the adjacent sprockets, so then you would prefer to have all 9-sp sprockets (with 8-sp. spacers.) You might want to try preparing just one big 9-sp sprocket first to see if it gives you what you want, before carving away on the others. People sell individual sprockets from Veloce 9 cassettes on eBay for decent money -- you could make back the cost of the cassette if they are like new and you are lucky.

Steel1

I got the Miche 13-28 from Bikeinn. $40 total with shipping. I cannot recall how long it took to get here, but I did get it. The inside box was a little beat up from shipping, but the contents were fine. Running on Campy Record rear derailleur mid-1990s. Shift to first required adjusting of B screw, but it working pretty well now.

Actually I only used the two lowest cogs, which replaced first and second on the campy cassette. Kept the original campy stuff for the rest. Picture below shows all the Miche, except the the biggest two which are the campy that came off my bike.

Roger M

This is what I was hoping to find. Biking doesn't have it in stocks at the moment. The other sellers I've searched up have sketchy reviews, or really high shipping costs.

noglider 

Check out xxcycle.com in France. I bought a Miche cassette there and I've bought several other things. Shipping takes a couple of weeks, and they've been totally reliable.

AJI125 

Deleted an off-topic post and started in a new thread for interested parties.
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...-9-10-11s.html

conspiratemus1

^^ Interesting and useful but off-topic: the OP has stated he does not want to make his bike a 9-speed, even to the point of being open to irreversibly modifying a 9-sp cassette.

conspiratemus1

I have new, never used 9-speed single Veloce sprockets in 25 and 28 teeth, one each. They are leftovers from a brand-new 13-28 that I converted to 13-30. PM me if you would like to go this route, say if you can’t find any Miche sprockets. I have some lightly used Miche 8-sp sprockets, too, but the largest is 27.

Roger M

Thanks Tom. Appreciate the heads up. I was hesitant to buy across the pond from an unfamiliar seller.

I found one at xxcycle for a real good price. 13-28 cassette and a chain for $45 shipped.

Roger M

Thanks again for all of the input. In case anyone needs a Campagnolo 13-28 8 speed cassette(by Miche), xxcycle has them on sale for $20(plus the ride).

I will update this when it arrives.

noglider 

I'm glad to help, @Roger M! I've been buying from them for years. The website is slightly wobbly with some things not translated properly (or at all) but the service has been rock solid, and the prices are always excellent. I got a pair of Continental tires there at an incredible price. Also they have every single model of Busch & Müller dynamo light, and there are many.

Roger M

To finish this thread, received the Miche cassette in the mail two days ago. It took less than two weeks to get here(PNW)from across the Atlantic. The total cost for the cassette, an 8 speed chain, and shipping from France was $45.

I am happy. Thanks everyone for your help and input.

metalburger

Bumping this up - Roger M Steel1 I am looking to do the exact same and move from a 13-26 cassette to the Miche 13-28 cassette, and wanted to check in to see what RD each of you were able to run this on and if there were any issues.

I have a pre-2000s Record short cage RD with the dropout B screw, which from what I am seeing, is rated for 26t max, though I’ve also seen Campagnolo documents stating they made an 8s 13-28 of their own at some point. Front is 53/39 with a Record FD.

clubman 

You'll maybe need the Racing Triple version for 8 speed?