laternser

I thought someone else 6'8" plus or minus may want a tall frame.


This post is just to encourage searching for large vintage frames on craigslist, and to relate my experience.


Where are the production frames for the tall? From 1980 to 1995 you could buy a 68cm bicycle for $450 dollars (about $1000 inflation adjusted). Today the sole mass production frames seem to be KHS 747 XXXL Road and KHS BNT 29er XXXL for less than $2000 (and as low as $1200).


The Zinn designed KHS 747 3xl intended for the 6'8" rider has a seat tube length more than three inches shorter than the 1980's and 90's Cannondale touring or Panasonic or even a Schwinn (all had frames with 27" seat tubes (frame size). The difference in geometry and ride is substantial. No production bicycle -- or custom that I have seen - has a wheelbase longer to compensate for height. They all top out at about 44 inches new or vintage. Tell me when I am cranking up a steep slope that I don't need a longer wheelbase. Or descending. I grew up riding a tandem even in elementary school (all the better to take a friend.) Nobody knows ... but tandems are a kids best friend. Long is fun.

(Yes I know about the Dirtysixer.)


Twenty five years ago my tricked out 68.5 cm Cannondale touring bicycle was stolen from my then workplace at the University of Nebraska - Lincoln. Cannondale stopped making large frames about 1994. I have only ridden 26x1.95 tires since. Yes, I could order a custom frame ... but I ride ... everywhere. Not fun to have a bicycle stolen. Kryptonite NY Loops only do so much. I don't want to have a $5000 bicycle stolen. My standard rides are 26x1.9 tires topped by Cannondale frames in sizes no longer made. Even my stock frames carry high end components and a trailer ... and cost plenty. I have learned that large frames are bike candy to thieves... and there is no real penalty for the bicycle theft. Theft is so well organized in Lincoln Nebraska that 25 years ago a commercial truck stopped in downtown, multiple men got out and loaded an entire public rack of bicycles onto the flatbed, and drove away. How often does it happen ... I don't know ... never hit the papers.


So you don't think an aluminum frame is durable. Google Sheldon Brown bicycle frame fatigue test. Cannondale was the top. The did not fail.


This week I finally found a vintage 68cm+ Cannondale touring bike in what appears to be good condition. Contacted seller and purchased it using Paypal.


Don't have it in hand yet. (Cannondale St-1000).


******* Still Available:

Two more bikes suitable for the 6'8" (or larger) individual remain listed from the same seller.


Sorry, I cannot post the links (forum rules). But I can give pointers to them.


Both are posted on Boston Craigslist and from the same individual I purchased mine from.


Remaining:

1st is Cannondale touring 68cm+ ST-400 for $350. Aluminum with steel fork. I owned this size frame (purchased as frameset). Can attest to the quality. This has a rear frame spacing of 126.4 mm (the one I just purchased is the road standard 130cm).


2nd is 80s Eddy Merckx Corsa Extra Custom road bike with a 71cm seat tube. $1300. I think these were made by Panasonic. I owned (and still own) a Panasonic labeled frame. The Merckx is much higher end. Columbus tubing for Pete's sake. "71cm seat tube and 65cm top tube center to center."


Side note: Also noticed an absolutely stellar Blienkey touring bicycle (fat tire 40 spoke / generator) for the larger person of exceptional gravitation on craigslist sanantonio. No better deal I have seen ... ever. $2700. But at 6'8" this would be small. New this would be easily over $5000. The deals are out there ... if you are both diligent and have patience.


Get em while you can.


===What it takes to get a bike from craigslist in a distant city. ========


How I purchased: I contacted the seller by email, asked him questions, and asked him if he would take it to his local bicycle shop for shipping. Took me days to get enough details to decide I wanted to purchase the ST-1000. Mostly because I did not know about shipping and was worried about getting ripped off. Did my best to check out the seller and found enough on the net to be confident. Today he notified me that he had dropped the bicycle off at the local dealer for packing and shipping.


1) Paid by paypal. Had seller send request for funds to my paypal account from his paypal account. Do not sell without seller sending formal payment request through paypal to your paypal account listing the item to be purchased. I selected 'send money' in response to the link inside of Paypal, and then 'pay for an item" and NOT "send money to a trusted friend." This activates the 'Paypal protection' that purports to protect you with a money back protection against fraud and damage in transit or 'not as offered' items. This cost the seller $15 which I refunded to him via paypal after the fact in a 2nd transaction.


2) Bicycle shop said they would pack the bicycle for $50 ... including a box ... $70 if I wanted the crank removed. Said they would pack and arrange UPS pickup and I would send them money for shipping. Packing is not done. They are not a bikeflights member. You don't need a bikeflights shop. You don't need any shop if you are willing to let the seller pack. (Mine offered, but I chose the shop he used.) You could get a box delivered to a private seller (and ship them packing materials like fiberglass tape and bubble wrap to protect your investment.)


3) Shipping Cost: Rules for shipping cost are based on on box size and weight. There are standard bicycle boxes and OVERSIZE boxes.

Shipping for a standard box is $50 with 50 lbs in it (from Boston to my location in Nebraska 1100 miles away) plus $15 for pickup.


Standard size box formula (in inches): Box Length plus 2 times (box width plus box height) = total must not exceed 130 inches.

Example standard box sizes: 43x11x32 / 53x29x9 / 43x11x32 / 54x28x8 ... all in inches.

*** Box cannot be packed with a bulge *** that may double freight cost.


4) --- Will I get my purchase? I think so. $500 for a nicely configured ST-1000 plus $50 packing and $50 shipping (minimum). I admit to an excitement that I did not expect. Childlike excitement. Will convert to 700c (from existing 27" rims) and Phil Wood Hubs (self built wheels) to support my mass. You cannot purchase 125psi tires for 27" rims. Heavy people need pressure; I run 80 in 26x1.95. The selection of 700c tires is literally 8x as numerous. Plus you cannot get studded in 27". Most, but not all, of the older Cannondale touring are 27" tires ... not to be confused with the listed 27" frame size. Be prepared to stock up on drivetrain components to keep for the future.


========

How to find your own wishbike somewhere on craigslist:

1) Make two folders in your browser for bookmarks.

One folder for searches in various cities.

One folder for listings you are interested in.

When you make a bookmark in the second folder insert 10/27 (the current date) at the start of the title to help you keep track of dates.


2) open up bing or google.

Startpage is iffy for this purpose.

duckduck just not quite right.

google plays with the url.


3) type site:craigslist dot org tall cannondale bicycle into the search field

(as an example) develop your own search terms. Including use the -term to eliminate items.

(replace the dot with a period ... I cannot yet post urls.


4) When you see a possible listing

First note the bicycle description

then right click and open it in a new tab so your search page remains for other links.


5) Usually the page will just open craigslist in that city in the bicycle category.

I bookmark the different cities bicycle section in a folder.

Then you must type in the bicycle name from the description into the craigslist search field and click the 'update' button to try

and find the bicycle of interest.


6) Lots of variations on different searches. There are five or six metro areas with a higher incidence of tall frames. Use your city bookmarks to regularly check for new rides. You can modify the area search using a list of zipcodes for the city and a 200 mile range to search for listings in a 400 mile diameter area. 10 of these extended area searches will reach a substantial percentage of the nations bicycle listings. High end cycles are almost exclusively listed in major cities ... and many are barely ridden.


Oh well, enough. See if anyone is interested.


I thought someone here might want one of these tall frames.

tallbikeman

Loved your very tall frame discussion and finds. 68cm is too tall but I do ride a 67cm and like you I own several very large bicycles from the past. The older very large frames fit me better than the modern ones. I don't want to pay for custom frames as long as there are appropriate used factory made frames for much cheaper and yet the quality is there. I've also seen frames advertised as XXL but you end up with a seatpost sticking way out of the frame. I've seen these frames with the seatpost out so far break at the seatpost tube. Trying not to anger the gods of geometry and frame overloading. I agree with your discussion about thieving. My bicycles are basically custom to a large degree and have a lot of nice expensive parts on them. My go to the store bicycle on the other hand is a Worksman cycletruck that is a grungy, rusty, one piece crank klunker and I lock it with a Kryptonite and heavy hardware store chain with lock. The locks are mere annoyances in this day and age of battery powered grinders. The idea is to present a bicycle nobody really wants. I also don't park at a regular time or date so planning by thieves is thrown off. So far, 25yrs with it, so good. Good luck with your find.

dmark 

Impressive post; you are quite resourceful.

tallbikeman

No sooner did we mention 68cm older steel bicycles than one came up here locally in good shape for the era. It is in Napa valley and posted on the local C...L.... for Sacramento. The bike is an Araya made by Panasonic in Japan. It is a lower model called the Competition but the front fork looks to have lots of room for the Schwalbe Marathon tire in 27x1 1/4". Not all the 27" wheeled bikes of the era will take the Schwalbe tire. .

laternser

I rode my Panasonic 68cm road frame endlessly one summer until my fingers sustained nerve damage and when I sat on a bench I rocked like a boat ... really. Road it across the Dakota's, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Nebraska. I used the highest pressure tires available and the rocks on gravel roads would shoot out sideways as if from a slingshot. Frame space for a tire was very limited as I recall. Fenders were a problem. With my weight and pedal pressure and the tires of the day, it took advance planning to keep enough replacement tires to keep moving. I don't even remember Mr. Tuffys or Grabon grips in those days. Monetary inflation: I think perhaps it cost $209 for the entire bike, but I really am vague.

Solid frame. Still have the frame in the barn. 1020 and plain jane rather crude lugs. Repainted it so I cannot get the model off it. Built a trailer out of double layer tubing I salvaged from a scrap metal yard and welded using a AC buzz box from Montgomery Ward. Attached to the seat post with my own swivel design. Trailers were not common back then. I don't think I could buy one. Still have that trailer. Been in the weather all these years and still no rust (I sprayed it with the same DuPont metallic I used on my 1948 Chevy Truck.) You could probably carry me in the trailer --- enough room and maybe strong enough. I would try it ... but who could pedal a bike? Carried tons of cargo across the years.

Perhaps the Panasonic was more road perfect than touring, but that was so very long ago. Panasonic made the first really large frames I ever found. I still love the company just for that reason. Still, to this day, there is NOBODY that makes a big production frame (excepting a few years of Cannondale more than two decades ago.) KHS / Zinn is fantastic, having large frames in both road and mountain, but the reality is the seat tube on them is short and the wheelbase is nothing to write home about, and not really for touring. Dirtysixer: $7000 USD base price, $8300 for dirt. Dirtysixer is not off the shelf ... have not seen any geometry diagrams etc ... seems to be made to order. I have only seen the impressive picture of Shaq flat footed with his crotch on the top tube with a trailer attached (see the Dirtysixer home page.) I do like a suspension fork, surprised to see they are now available on a Dirtysixer. Big chunk of change to have stolen, and thus a draw to the thieves. Cost per mile of use would be substantial.

Never seen a Dirtysixer for sale used. Must mean something. They are still in business so they must sell. DS Goes where no other manufacturer dares.

One comment I can make on the Panasonic. It was a lively ride. Not wimpy or limp at all; the frame was just alive. Very unlike the Cannondale aluminum frames I have been riding. The Cannondale road frames, which I have not ridden in may years, have a peculiar kind of dead-ness. The road models are also not laterally stiff. I could twist the whole frame easily with sloppy out of the seat hammering, or just pulling on the bars. Cannondale's alum. road are not unpleasant ride, but I don't remember ever having the burst of joyful adrenaline in my body as I sprinted on a smooth empty road on that Panasonic. During that era parts were not as durable. I remember cracking so many bottom bracket spindles and bent and broken axles, damaged cranks. The wider chains of the time did not often fail me. No matter what I did with wheels, they just were not strong enough. I became quite adept at truing a wheel and equalizing the spokes by picking at them with a banjo pick and listening to the tone. No, the spokes were not DT, and I had spares taped to my top tube -- always. Still think this the sound pitch of a spoke is superior way of putting tension in a spoke ... if you have good ears. Did not seem to matter that I was tone deaf.

Phil Wood parts prices were out of sight in those days. Wood hubs with solid axles, DT and Mavic wide rims put an end to bent wheels and damaged axles.
36 spokes.

The extremely large Trek mountain bike I owned (lugged 501 Reynolds tubes ... which were supposed to be slightly stronger) and rode to death also gave me a lively ride. I believe it had a 25" seat tube, but since they confiscated it in an exchange for a new 23", I cannot double check. Went to a lot of trouble to get it.

I do love the road feel of steel.

Dirtysixer won't recommend any any hub but Rohloff for my weight range. I did not know they were thought strong or durable. Checked into them prior to get Phil Wood hubs. Have to re-investigate them.

I think I am well past the point of custom and have arrived to the make my own frame station. I have almost everything needed via tools except a tube bending jig. Probably spend way more time calculating, drawing, and finding aircraft tubes, and setup than I will actually making the frame. I know enough to multiply any estimated time by at least three to get in the realistic realm. Almost certainly cheaper in real life to get a Dirtysixer than do a one-off if you consider using the time to generate income. Not like I can just use an off the shelf tube set and lugs.

Wishing for a Christmas ride from here to Big Bend Texas, weather allowing. Corpis Christi in the winter? I'll see if the Cannondale ST-1000 is up to it.

Some day every cyclist has a last ride. Make yours a grand gesture to life and human power.

tallbikeman

Laternser I have resurrected several older 27x1 1/4" 66, 67 and 68cm bicycles from the past. The old Schwinn Varsities with their forged fork have enough clearance for any 27" tire and fender. I have a 1980 Schwinn Sports Tourer made in the orient with lugged frame and Schwinn speced it so that any 27" tire and fender will work. I also own a Nishiki Sebring bicycle of the same era and the front fork is just too tight to take a Schwalbe 27" Marathon tire. This bicycle is thus a prime candidate for 700c wheels. I think that 35mm tires will fit on both ends of this frame and fork. I remember the 70psi tires of the 70's and the 27"rims with no hook for higher pressure tires. The tires were not that good. I love 1020 frames for their durability and vibration damping. 1020 frames were the low end so they weren't trying to build a race bicycle. Good manufacturers opted to make lower line bicycles more durable and thus heavier. This turns out to be a great bicycle for big, heavy riders like me. The modern 27" tires are way more reliable than those of old and the hooked rims allow up to 100psi. I weigh 242lbs and ride dirt roads all the time on 27 x 1 1/4" wheels with no reliability or puncture problems. I raced bicycles in my late teens and caused ulnar nerve damage to my hands. I quit racing in time enough to not have permanent damage. But my ulnar nerve makes my hands go to sleep if I ride too long nowadays. Good luck with any frame project you decide to do.

Kobe 

I had that Cannondale St-1000 on my watch list. Fantastic deal from a good seller. The other Cannondale he has for sale is tempting also.

If you are on facebook, their is also a group that sells bikes larger than 60cm, but most of the bikes are more recent and not much over 65cm.

I am with you on the KHS 747, the proportions are just not right. Another production steel frame builder is Gunnar, bot cheap but cheaper the custom. They make really tall sizes in most of their frames. I bought a Sport this year and love it. It's not like the 80's when Fuji, Bridgestone, Panasonic, Schwinn and Univega all made 66cm+ bikes though.

laxpatrick

What's the name of that Facebook group? Thanks!

Kobe 

This is the group; "Big Bikes and Beyond. 60cm/XL frames and up-COMPLETE BIKES OR FRAMES ONLY".

mstateglfr 

Wow that was a lot to take in.