An American cycle tours in Europe, 16 December 1944
12-24-19, 07:40 AM
#26
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I have been thinking of a proper response to the OPs lashing out at Shelbyfv and myself for several days. Trying to find the right words. Writing is not my forte.
The OPs initial post is not the sort of writing one normally finds on a message forum. Very polished, professional writing. Without any further explanation or referencing made by the OP, the post could be taken to be a 'cut and paste' from a published writing.
WW2 history is a hobby of mine. I have an entire bookcase dedicated to WW2 history. The initial post would seem to indicate that much research had taken place, some of it being direct quoted conversation of those present at the time. Historical research takes time and effort. I get it.
Plagiarism stinks, and with the advent of instant 'knowledge' thanks to the Internet, many people will cut and paste from a copyrighted piece without citing the reference. By asking for a source, I merely wanted to make sure that the researcher and author get the credit that they deserve. I'm sure the OP would be justifiably outraged if someone were to 'steal' his work and post it somewhere without the proper attribution.
Now that I've explained myself (poorly, because I am not a writer) I hope that if the OP comes back to this thread, he will accept my explanation and my apology. No personal offense was intended.
The OPs initial post is not the sort of writing one normally finds on a message forum. Very polished, professional writing. Without any further explanation or referencing made by the OP, the post could be taken to be a 'cut and paste' from a published writing.
WW2 history is a hobby of mine. I have an entire bookcase dedicated to WW2 history. The initial post would seem to indicate that much research had taken place, some of it being direct quoted conversation of those present at the time. Historical research takes time and effort. I get it.
Plagiarism stinks, and with the advent of instant 'knowledge' thanks to the Internet, many people will cut and paste from a copyrighted piece without citing the reference. By asking for a source, I merely wanted to make sure that the researcher and author get the credit that they deserve. I'm sure the OP would be justifiably outraged if someone were to 'steal' his work and post it somewhere without the proper attribution.
Now that I've explained myself (poorly, because I am not a writer) I hope that if the OP comes back to this thread, he will accept my explanation and my apology. No personal offense was intended.
I enjoyed reading the OP story, indeed well written and I glossed over the subsequent brouhaha, until I read the last post by @Cougrrcj. I thought you expressed yourself well and no apology for your writing needed. I was once advised about presentations, don’t apologize; it can be distracting and evidential, and may not even be necessary.
I write many professional reports with significant medical and/or legal consequences, and I spend a lot of time polishing others writing. I read academic journals with precisely styled citations, and even add some formal citations to my reports. Indeed there is an citation service that counts the times that an article is cited as evidence of its importance.
Frankly though, on Bike Forums I really don’t expect such academic rigor, and I read it for the prima facie content.
However within the world of Bike Forums IMO a unique feature is the use of quote boxes (especially as citations) to link to other posts….FWIW
I write many professional reports with significant medical and/or legal consequences, and I spend a lot of time polishing others writing. I read academic journals with precisely styled citations, and even add some formal citations to my reports. Indeed there is an citation service that counts the times that an article is cited as evidence of its importance.
Frankly though, on Bike Forums I really don’t expect such academic rigor, and I read it for the prima facie content.
However within the world of Bike Forums IMO a unique feature is the use of quote boxes (especially as citations) to link to other posts….FWIW
Hey now... I'm a Luddite. As in the Joe Walsh song states - 'I'm an analog man in a digital world'.
Hey, only got a 'smart phone' three years ago because my 85+-year old mother out in Phoenix didn't have internet access or a printer to print a boarding pass. All of this multi-quote stuff is waaaay above my head.
Hey, only got a 'smart phone' three years ago because my 85+-year old mother out in Phoenix didn't have internet access or a printer to print a boarding pass. All of this multi-quote stuff is waaaay above my head.
Perhaps you did glean from my two posts were about multi-quoting, especially as a form of citation on Bike Forums, as you described in the “academic” world. FWIW
BTW,‘I'm not familiar with either Joe Walsh, or his song. How about a quote (or citation)?
12-24-19, 07:59 AM
#27
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The story of Dr; Graves is interesting. He was one of the few cycling advocates during the dark ages of american cycling. Another advocate, on the East Coast, was also medical doctor, Paul Dudley White, one the leading American cardiologists of the fifties;
They knew something that most Americans of the time didn't. Sadly, there are a lot of our fellow citizens who still haven't got the message.
They knew something that most Americans of the time didn't. Sadly, there are a lot of our fellow citizens who still haven't got the message.
Also,
Boston as a compact East Coast urban environment has a nice set of bikepaths that connect the downtown area through the midtown as it were, and out to the residential neighborhoods and inner suburbs, providing utilitarian byways for cycle commuting or recreation, though these paths are not completely connected.
These include:
These include:
- the Paul Dudley White bikepath named for Dwight Eisenhower's personal cardiologist [after his heart attack as President] and an early advocate of exercise for cardiac fitness. It follows both sides of the Charles River (“Love that Dirty Water”), with scenic views of the Boston and Cambridge skylines.
- the Southwest Corridor (Pierre Lallement) bike path through residential neighborhoods named for the inventor of the modern bicycle who died in Boston in obscurity, in the late 1800’s…
Last edited by Jim from Boston; 12-28-19 at 01:57 PM.
12-24-19, 12:07 PM
#29
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So, @Cougrrcj,assuming this latter post is a reply to mine, it that an apology, or a boast?...Whatever.
Perhaps you did glean from my two posts were about multi-quoting, especially as a form of citation on Bike Forums, as you described in the “academic” world. FWIW
BTW,‘I'm not familiar with either Joe Walsh, or his song. How about a quote (or citation)?
Perhaps you did glean from my two posts were about multi-quoting, especially as a form of citation on Bike Forums, as you described in the “academic” world. FWIW
BTW,‘I'm not familiar with either Joe Walsh, or his song. How about a quote (or citation)?
And at least I gave Joe Walsh the attribution for the quote.
12-24-19, 06:18 PM
#30
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tcs thanks for posting this. It is a neat read.
It is a large file at 194 MB and 401 pages. Running Acrobat's OCR Recognition on the downloaded file knocked the file size down to 74 MB.
12-25-19, 10:52 AM
#31
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Hey now... I'm a Luddite. As in the Joe Walsh song states - 'I'm an analog man in a digital world'.
Hey, only got a 'smart phone' three years ago because my 85+-year old mother out in Phoenix didn't have internet access or a printer to print a boarding pass. All of this multi-quote stuff is waaaay above my head.
Hey, only got a 'smart phone' three years ago because my 85+-year old mother out in Phoenix didn't have internet access or a printer to print a boarding pass. All of this multi-quote stuff is waaaay above my head.
So, @Cougrrcj,assuming this latter post is a reply to mine, it that an apology, or a boast?...Whatever.
Perhaps you did glean from my two posts were about multi-quoting, especially as a form of citation on Bike Forums, as you described in the “academic” world. FWIW
BTW,‘I'm not familiar with either Joe Walsh, or his song. How about a quote (or citation)?
Perhaps you did glean from my two posts were about multi-quoting, especially as a form of citation on Bike Forums, as you described in the “academic” world. FWIW
BTW,‘I'm not familiar with either Joe Walsh, or his song. How about a quote (or citation)?
I asked my MIllennial son the musician, about Joe Walsh, and he had not heard of him either. Just yesterday my son showed me how to use Apple Music, though I was already handy with I-Tunes.My musical tastes are Big Bands before 1950, and Golden Oldies mostly before 1980. I learned that my son, who when in High School performed ska music, also now likes Country Western, and used "Bone Dry" by George Jones to demonstrate Apple Music. Someday I want to write a rant to the Foo thread about the slow demise of Music The Standards AKA Great American Songbook” (link).
So talk about a musical Luddite.
Last edited by Jim from Boston; 12-25-19 at 11:03 AM.
12-25-19, 11:01 AM
#32
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12-25-19, 11:16 AM
#33
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The trip was back in May to June of 1977 on our honeymoon as we were moving from Michigan to Boston and managed a two-month hiatus from work. … within few miles turned inland past San Juan Capistrano and onto the Ortega Highway and our very first mountain pass ever.
Originally Posted by Wikipedia
Route 74 [Ortega Highway] between San Juan Capistrano and Lake Elsinore, due to its narrow width and high traffic volume, holds an ominous claim to fame as one of the most dangerous highways in the state.
12-26-19, 11:52 AM
#34
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Thanks!
Thank you @tcs for sharing Dr. Graves' story. I had not heard of him before and the older I get the more interested I become in history.
It's too bad that a couple of folks accused you of plagiarism in the way that they did. As a photojournalist/editor who has had his work stolen repeatedly (i.e., The Story of a Photo (AKA Google ? Free) | johnmflores), this issue is close to me. There are better/more civil ways to approach issues of intellectual property than what was demonstrated here.
I hope you are not dissuaded and hope to see more of your contributions here in the future.
It's too bad that a couple of folks accused you of plagiarism in the way that they did. As a photojournalist/editor who has had his work stolen repeatedly (i.e., The Story of a Photo (AKA Google ? Free) | johnmflores), this issue is close to me. There are better/more civil ways to approach issues of intellectual property than what was demonstrated here.
I hope you are not dissuaded and hope to see more of your contributions here in the future.
01-04-20, 06:33 AM
#35
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Interesting thread, for sure. Great story.
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2010 AB T1X ** 2010 Cannondale SIX-5 ** 1993 Cannondale RS900 ** 1988 Bottecchia Team Record ** 1989 Bianchi Brava ** 1988 Nishiki Olympic ** 1987 Centurion Ironman Expert(2) ** 1985 DeRosa Professional SLX ** 1982 Colnago Super ** 1982 Basso Gap ** 198? Ciocc Competition SL ** 19?? Roberts Audax ** 198? Brian Rourke ** 1982 Mercian Olympic ** 1970 Raleigh Professional MK I ** 1952 Raleigh Sports
02-03-20, 02:41 PM
#36
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Well, that was a good story that became a discussion about Joe Walsh after a member got banned. It's also more than okay to comment on one thing at a time instead of rolling it all up in a ball. Seems an effective way to derail a thread. The topic the OP started with was great without all of that.
I'm glad that the cabin fever of the holiday season is over.
And keep writing. You don't have to be 'perfect' you just have to tell a good story. Thanks for sharing this story.
I'm glad that the cabin fever of the holiday season is over.
And keep writing. You don't have to be 'perfect' you just have to tell a good story. Thanks for sharing this story.
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