Frame identification request
#1
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Frame identification request
Hello and good day, here is what appears to be a repainted frame. It specs to 60cm ctt seatube by 57cm top. No badge but the two mounting screw are in the middle and side of the headtube. It takes 27.2 post and will fit 22.2 gooseneck. Interesting details at the dropouts, I thought one was repaired but they both match. French threaded bb, Campy dropouts. Rear spacing may be off, it currently measures 110.
Thanks for looking here are a few pictures of my only green machine.
Thanks for looking here are a few pictures of my only green machine.
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Crescent/Monark of Varberg Sweden (MCB)
Head emblem fastener placement indicates originally badged as Crescent
Despite metric shell all tubes are BSC dimension, including steerer & headset
Tubing likely eleven tube 531c
Headset suggests it may have begun life as a model 319
This headset is listed on manufacture specification tables as "Crescent" or "Monark" as the case may be, suggesting it to be proprietary
Reportedly manufactured by Agrati
Original rear spacing 120mm
Era: 1960's
Common finishes: orange, white and blue
as one goes back in time others can glide into view
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Crescent/Monark of Varberg Sweden (MCB)
Head emblem fastener placement indicates originally badged as Crescent
Despite metric shell all tubes are BSC dimension, including steerer & headset
Tubing likely eleven tube 531c
Headset suggests it may have begun life as a model 319
This headset is listed on manufacture specification tables as "Crescent" or "Monark" as the case may be, suggesting it to be proprietary
Reportedly manufactured by Agrati
Original rear spacing 120mm
Era: 1960's
Common finishes: orange, white and blue
as one goes back in time others can glide into view
-----
Last edited by juvela; 01-27-20 at 12:24 PM. Reason: addition
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#5
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Thanks for the update.
Good to see she is coming right along.
---
Two geometry points I forgot to include in the earlier message -
a) OEM brakeset on both model 319 and model 320 at this time was MAFAC Racer/Dural Forge
clearances are fairly generous in case you might wish to run tyres as grand as thirty-eight
b) many 319/320 frames of this time exhibit "pedal boxing" AKA "toeclip overlap" - if present, it is really only an inconvenience at very low speeds. once up to a normal cycling pace it is moot. symptom will be exacerbated of course if mudguards are fitted...
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reportedly, John Howard used these for his training bikes. do not know if he competed on them.
all best wishes with it!
-----
Thanks for the update.
Good to see she is coming right along.
---
Two geometry points I forgot to include in the earlier message -
a) OEM brakeset on both model 319 and model 320 at this time was MAFAC Racer/Dural Forge
clearances are fairly generous in case you might wish to run tyres as grand as thirty-eight
b) many 319/320 frames of this time exhibit "pedal boxing" AKA "toeclip overlap" - if present, it is really only an inconvenience at very low speeds. once up to a normal cycling pace it is moot. symptom will be exacerbated of course if mudguards are fitted...
---
reportedly, John Howard used these for his training bikes. do not know if he competed on them.
all best wishes with it!
-----
Last edited by juvela; 01-31-20 at 06:35 PM. Reason: spellin'
#6
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C'mon Sweden...
I am not challenging Juvela!!! No, no, no.
But WTF, you old Swedish** bike builders... Using a welded piece of pipe for the BB, and then you go and tap it with French threads? Only the BB?*
*It's as if they were thinking 50 years ahead, and said "how can we build this, so if someone rips off the head badge, and repaints it, only a handful of people on the planet will know who built it."
**ok reading again, it may have been built by Italians (Agrati). Who knows who spec'ed the BB threads... whomever. What a bunch of contrary old coots.
But WTF, you old Swedish** bike builders... Using a welded piece of pipe for the BB, and then you go and tap it with French threads? Only the BB?*
*It's as if they were thinking 50 years ahead, and said "how can we build this, so if someone rips off the head badge, and repaints it, only a handful of people on the planet will know who built it."
**ok reading again, it may have been built by Italians (Agrati). Who knows who spec'ed the BB threads... whomever. What a bunch of contrary old coots.
Last edited by Last ride 76; 01-31-20 at 10:19 AM.
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It's still not as bad as the bicycle thread standard used by the Italians, which combines metric and imperial parameters (i.e. 36mm x 24TPI).
#8
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Thanks for the update.
Good to see she is coming right along.
---
Two geometry points I forgot to include in the earlier message -
a) OEM brakeset on both model 319 and model 320 at this time was MAFAC Racer/Dural Forge
clearances are fairly generous in case you might wish to run tyres as grand as thirty-eight
b) many 319/320 frames of this time exhibit "pedal boxing" AKA "toeclip overlap" - if present, it is really only an inconvenience at very low speeds. once up to a normal cycling pace it is moot. symptom will be exacerbated of course if mudguards are fitted...
---
reportedly, John Howard used these for his training bikes. do not know it he competed on them.
all best wishes with it!
-----
Thanks for the update.
Good to see she is coming right along.
---
Two geometry points I forgot to include in the earlier message -
a) OEM brakeset on both model 319 and model 320 at this time was MAFAC Racer/Dural Forge
clearances are fairly generous in case you might wish to run tyres as grand as thirty-eight
b) many 319/320 frames of this time exhibit "pedal boxing" AKA "toeclip overlap" - if present, it is really only an inconvenience at very low speeds. once up to a normal cycling pace it is moot. symptom will be exacerbated of course if mudguards are fitted...
---
reportedly, John Howard used these for his training bikes. do not know it he competed on them.
all best wishes with it!
-----
Also from my bin of French poo, Dural Forge.
Rims and good 3ttt set of bars may take a while form to find.
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Finish -
when you prepared the frame for assembly did you discover any bits of earlier colour on loci such as steerer, shell interior or seat tube interior?
MCB quite proud of their paint prep which included a rustproofing coating and zinc-chromate primer. appears current primer red. if you can spot any bit of green primer that is the zinc chromate.
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Kitting -
your frame appears a bit pre-boom to my eye. can recall boom 319's as coming with Stronglight model 93 chainset, Campag NR gear ensemble, Campag NT large flange hubs, MAFAC arrestors, Lyotard pedals (probably 45CA), plain saddle pillar, conventional leather saddle (do not recall model - may have been something like a T. et B. 80), tubular rims with Canetti tyres (despite sound of name this is a French tyre producer)
you mention 3TTT, a period correct stem/bar set from this maker would likely be the Gran Prix with allen expander
the three colours observed at that time were white, orange and blue
white had blue lining, orange had white lining and blue red lining
all bikes came with MAFAC half hoods in white, regardless of colour
hope this assists a bit
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Finish -
when you prepared the frame for assembly did you discover any bits of earlier colour on loci such as steerer, shell interior or seat tube interior?
MCB quite proud of their paint prep which included a rustproofing coating and zinc-chromate primer. appears current primer red. if you can spot any bit of green primer that is the zinc chromate.
---
Kitting -
your frame appears a bit pre-boom to my eye. can recall boom 319's as coming with Stronglight model 93 chainset, Campag NR gear ensemble, Campag NT large flange hubs, MAFAC arrestors, Lyotard pedals (probably 45CA), plain saddle pillar, conventional leather saddle (do not recall model - may have been something like a T. et B. 80), tubular rims with Canetti tyres (despite sound of name this is a French tyre producer)
you mention 3TTT, a period correct stem/bar set from this maker would likely be the Gran Prix with allen expander
the three colours observed at that time were white, orange and blue
white had blue lining, orange had white lining and blue red lining
all bikes came with MAFAC half hoods in white, regardless of colour
hope this assists a bit
-----
Last edited by juvela; 01-31-20 at 06:43 PM. Reason: addition