jyl

The right shifter boss needed to be more securely reattached to the frame. My friend drilled and tapped the downtube where the boss mounts, and used a longer bolt that both mounts the housing stop and secures the boss to the downtube, along with adhesive. He says the boss ain't going anywhere now.



Shifter bosses, right one reglued and secured with extra long bolt.

First components mounted on the frame. I think the aesthetic of modern carbon Campagnolo is going to work well.



Ultratorque cups and carbon crank installed.

Project is now stalled awaiting more components.

I decided to order the cheapest threadless stem possible just to verify fit. I chose a 130 mm, -17 degree stem, that will be slammed on the innicycle headset. My short legs/long torso mean that a frame with adequate standover is always too short (top tube) and thus I run setback posts and long stems. This frame's measurements suggest the same will apply, but before committing to a more spendy stem, I decided to test with a $19 ultra-cheapo alloy stem.

Awaiting a used HED carbon tubular wheelset and a Campagnolo hub body for same, and trying to select an appropriate seatpost and brakes.

Thinking about trying some road pedals - all my other bikes have SPD - and if I go that route, I might look for some used powermeter pedals. Not that I actually want to be informed that my power output trails that of an energetic hamster, but in the Parallel Universe as in this one, all the World Tour pros are riding with power and none with SPDs.

63rickert

Original 753 had an extreme heat treating process, which was given as the reason for no coldsetting and the reason tubes down to 0.376 would be durable. Heat treating in general was evolving rapidly in 70s and 80s. I have long wondered if later 753 continued to use the same heat treatment. Or if there was any way to know which 753 stickered frame absolutely could not be coldset and which ones could be handled normally.

63rickert

Greg's frame would be built by Alain Michel. The rest of them who knows. '86 is well within the era when pros had personal builders.

jyl

@joejack951 From what I'm seeing, used "known brand" carbon tubular (over 30 mm deep) wheelsets on eBay can be had starting around $400 - same as what you saw - but at that price they are usually pretty old models and look pretty used (but without visible damage - dents, cracks, delamination seem to make carbon wheels all but unsalable online). Local CL only has a handful of carbon wheel sets (as of this writing, no tubulars) and they're not really more affordable than eBay. The shallow carbon rims (like Zipp 202) are quite a bit cheaper. Certain brands (like Bora, Enve) are significantly more expensive. Type of freehub body doesn't seem to make much difference. With or without tires also doesn't seem to have a big impact on price. I have narrowed down my search to appx 40-50 mm deep with exterior width at least 26 mm (i.e. wider than the 23-25 mm tires I expect to use). The width criteria appears to exclude a lot of models, especially older ones.

jyl

I now have a very nice used HED Stinger 5 wheelset for the Parallel Universe Look.

The wheelset has a pair of Tufo cross tires glued on. Glued on very well.

Any tips on dismounting these glued-on tubs, other than simply ripping them off with my vice-like fingers which are already kinda sore from trying? I'd like to avoid damage to the tires so that I can perhaps reuse them someday.

Then any tips on preparing the rim gluing surface for the new tires? With alloy tubular rims I usually stick a brass wire wheel in the drill chuck and zap off the dried old glue. But I figure carbon rims need gentler treatment?

Finally, what are people using to glue tubs to carbon rims? Will any old tubular glue work?

These rims come from a sometime BF'er and are in very nice shape. The brake tracks have almost no visible wear, the spokes and hubs are clean with hardly any marks. I'll check trueness after I get the tires off. I also need to order a Campagnolo freehub body.

jyl

Slowly accumulating parts for the build. Got a nice Look Ergopost. Ordered a generic Chinese carbon dropbar and also have a pretty generic alloy drop bar here. I'm thinking of the cockpit as all very interim, until the bike is ridden and fit dialed, then go looking for the real bar/stem. Now trawling eBay for some skeleton Record brakes.

jyl

The Ergopost is shockingly heavy. It could almost be a weapon. Thinking about selling it off and getting something lighter.

Any experience with the Campagnolo Record/Chorus carbon sestposts? Light, strong, or not good?

The cheap Chinese "Toseek" carbon bars are pretty nice. They have flattened tops and internal cable routing. We'll see if I die, but if not then this was $40 well spent. I got 40 cm width because, aero.

A 17 degree 130 mm stem, slammed, looks pretty nice on this bike. Even though it is a clunky generic stem. I figured it is simply to test fit.

joejack951

What diameter seatpost does the frame use? Look Ergoposts have always attracted me due to their appearance then repelled me due to their price and weight. When I built a 2004 KG386 I used an American Classic seatpost as it was one of maybe three options that came in a 25mm diameter at the time.

I have become a fan of 40cm handlebars after using 42cm bars for years. Yes aero, but I also find them more comfortable on longer rides perhaps due to better wrist angles. Or because I want to be happy with my choice so I’ve convinced myself of that. Either way, I’m happy I tried 40cm bars and don’t plan to switch back any time soon.

Horizontal top tubes require -17 degree stems. If going separate and not integrated, Kalloy Uno is a lightweight option that won’t break the bank. It can be easily de-logoed with acetone.

Reynolds 531 

Horizontal tubes REQUIRE 17 degree stems. I could not agree more.

jyl

27.2 mm seattube I.D.

The Look Ergopost weight per Velobase is about 195 g which is the same as the other choice, Campagnolo Record/Chorus carbon. If that's true, it's not crazy heavy. But it just FEELS heavy. Certainly not a lightweight.

[EDIT: that weight is wrong. The uncut post weighs a whopping 274 g. It's not going on the bike.!]

The Ergopost on my other bike (Vitus 997, the carbon tube version of the 992) is an early one with a matte carbon finish which I like better than the shiny finish on this one.

jyl

joejack951 any tips on cutting the "steerer tube" part of the headset?

I'll run it uncut for awhile but eventually will have to get rid of the excess protrusion.

jyl

Sky sent me his original pics of the bike, when it was complete.https://smg.photobucket.com/user/vdubbusrider/Look/story

joejack951

First, make the top of your stem on the tube with a marker after determining your exact stem and spacer arrangement. Stem clamp heights vary by a few millimeters, generally 38-42mm with most being on the longer end of that range. If you are indecisive and are using a shorter clamp stamp now, consider leaving some extra tube if you swap stems later.

Second, decide how flush you want the top cap to be. If you want it flush(my preference) you’ll want to cut the steerer tube 2-2.5mm (~3/32”) below your mark. The top cap will fill in this missing height. If you don’t mind it protruding a few millimeters or if you want a little wiggle room for different stems, you can cut right at the mark.

Third, REMOVE THE TOP CAP! Otherwise you’ll saw through the stud for the cone wedge/expander.

Fourth, USE A SAW GUIDE! You want this cut as perpendicular as possible so that the top cap can continue to do its job properly (pulling straight up on the wedge). A file can be used to further flatten any rough areas. The washer under the flange of the top cap will ensure that it doesn’t gall against the bare aluminum tube when tightening the wedge.

Fifth, if looking to shave some weight, after cutting the tube you can also then trim the stud on the top cap a matching amount. It’s steel so you’ll save some significant grams doing this. Touch up the exposed end with some black paint to prevent rust.

This is all far easier and cleaner with the upper section removed the bike. While it could be done on the bike to save a bit of time I don’t suggest it for many reasons.

I have been meaning to take a video of this process. If you think it would help you, I can shoot something rough.

jyl

A video would be great if you're already planning one.

On my weight weenie bikes I get Ti bolts for the cone expander. I figure that is a long steel bolt so the weight saving is worth it. And that the torque on that bolt is low. I may look for a Ti bolt that fits here.

(That is one of the few fasteners on a bike where I think Ti makes enough weight difference to bother with.)

joejack951

Ugh, I had a long reply typed out explaining some design considerations that lead me to using a very custom threaded stud between the top cap and wedge but I left my computer before finishing it, and then it restarted. Anyway, long story short, the threaded stud isn't easily swapped unless you happen to have a piece of titanium with M8x1mm threads on one end and M8x1.25mm threads on the other. I can go into detail, again, about how I ended up there if you'd like but won't for now. I had good reasons, though, not just intentional incompatibility

I'll get to work on that video and then perhaps share some thoughts on the weight-weenie version of the headset that I've been musing about since its initial conception.

joejack951

Trimming the steerer tube upper portion:

jyl

Nice!

jyl

I see an upgrade product possibility... Ti stud, aluminum cone.

Awaiting more on the weight-weenie version!

joejack951

Thanks for egging me on to actually CAD this up and do some weight checks. It convinces me even more that I ought to make a few of these to test. No titanium at all, but more on that later.

First, why the M8x1 threads and custom stud...This was one of those no-brainer design decisions where I was able to make things lighter, more flexible, and cheaper all at once. Using a standard M8x1.25 bolt seemed like the way to go as that's what nearly every quill stem and threadless adapter uses. My first prototypes used one, too. But I quickly learned how limiting a stock fastener can be. Most problematic was that trimming the steerer tube portion either required a shorter bolt or a fully threaded bolt, the latter of which turned out to be quite expensive. Aesthetically, the large bolt head dominated the top cap as well eating up space that could be used for branding. Trimming the bolt head down (a la Cinelli A1 stems) only added cost to an expensive part. The large bolt head had another hidden disadvantage in that in order to house it within the top cap, the top cap size needed to be so large that it limited how far the steerer tube could be trimmed. It wasn't all that much really, but my goal was 38mm and if I recall correctly I was limited to 40mm by that design. So the move to the current cap design began.

As I'm designing that cap, I ran into an issue. I wanted a 6mm hex in the top. I also wanted that hex to be able to be thru-broached as opposed to a blind broach. This allows for easier manufacturing, generally better tolerances, and made for a smaller cap (remember that 38mm target). However, in order thru broach the hex, the clearance hole on the opposite side of the cap needed to be larger than the proper minor diameter for an M8x1.25mm thread which I had intended to use. A quick check of internal thread specifications lead me to an M8x1mm thread whose minor diameter just barely clears the corners of a 6mm hex. But that's all I needed. And it also prevents the stud from being installed backwards. It's plainly obvious how it should be installed (to me) but as I've learned in designing products, if it can be assembled improperly, someone will do it. And maybe some day I'll be making enough of these that someone besides myself will be doing the assembly!

Still with me?

Weight weenie time! Some current weights:

Top Cap: 14 grams
Steel stud, untrimmed: 39 grams
Total: 53 grams

A titanium stud would cut 17 grams off that in the untrimmed state, plus 9 more if trimmed to the shortest possible length. Total system weight: 36 grams, untrimmed; 27 grams, trimmed

As much as I like the idea of titanium here, the product is expensive enough, right? I would need to charge quite a bit more to include a Ti stud. Also, what weight weenie needs that long steerer tube portion anyway? All that is is excess weight (35-39 grams depending on how far down you trim). So a true weight weenie design would assume minimal if any spacers and in doing that leaves me the option of going with something like this:



One piece top cap/stud, all in aluminum. Total weight: 26 grams. Cost: roughly the same as what I'm currently doing, possibly even slightly cheaper. Use it with an aluminum cone wedge, and the total weight savings over the standard conversion headset is a whopping 27 (top cap) + 35 (steerer trim) + 11 (cone) = 73 grams! Not bad.

So who's in?

jyl

Progress is slow but starting to get the vibe. This sestpost will not be used (too heavy). Brakes will be black skeleton Chorus or Record. RD will be Record carbon body. FD is Centaur because that's what we have.

Where we started. My buddy is taking stills for a time lapse sequence.

jyl

So you're considering a "weight weenie" version with this one piece alum cap/stud and a pre-trimmed steerer, in addition to the current version that has current top cap, steel stud, and full-length steerer?

Or would this one-piece alum cap/stud be provided with the full-length steerer?

Seems you'd want to minimize the number of SKUs.

Will the hex socket on the one-piece alum cap/stud be large enough to torque without rounding out the socket, given the aluminum material?

Will an aluminum stud in an aluminum cone have any galling issues at the threads?

I don't have any experience with aluminum fasteners.

In general, I'm all for anything weight weenie...so I'd buy it.

joejack951

Some great questions, most of which I have answer for!

1. In an effort to minimize SKUs, and recognizing the potentially small market for this version, I would start out by offering the one piece top cap and aluminum cone as a kit. Steerers will always need some level of custom cutting due to stem clamp height variations and a thin spacer here and there so I wouldn’t have to do anything different there. I figure I can accommodate up to a 42mm stem and a 10mm spacer on the WW version vs. the standard which accepts up to 50mm of spacers without feeling too restrictive.

2. The design is heavily influenced by current thru axle design. Those axles are aluminum with 5/6mm hex recesses and thread into aluminum dropouts. As long as I don’t stray too far from those basic principles it’s all proven to work already in what is probably a more demanding application.

I’ll refine this a bit more and hopefully put some numbers to it in the next week or so. I always benefit from enlisting a few beta testers in addition to myself so if you’re up for it and can be relied upon to give honest feedback and ride the bike (I’m certain on the first but would need to know your completion timeline on the second, not that I’m in a huge rush) perhaps one can be coming your way.

jyl

The add-on kit idea sounds good.

There are a few parts I still need to acquire. Might be done in a month, knock wood.

jyl

Cabling in process.

Need to make bar tape decisions.

The frame is white with the big blocks of primary colors (pics upthread).

The saddle will be white with World Champion stripes - it's the one on the top of this image https://duckduckgo.com/?q=fizik+saddle+white+world+champion&t=iphone&iax=images&ia=images&iai=https%3A%2F%2Ffixiebikemarket .files.wordpress.com%2F2012%2F03%2Ffizik-arione-cx-braided-rails-saddle1.jpg

Why this saddle? Its in my inventory. I'm not wild about the stripes, maybe I'll get a plain Fizik saddle sometime. I could even get a Turbo re-issue or a Flite. Those three types of saddles - Fizik, Turbo, Flite - are reliably comfortable for my tush. As are some leather saddles but not going to use a Brooks here.

The seatpost will be a Campagnolo carbon post, so black color.

So... what bar tape color and finishing???

We could do white to match the saddle. Fizik white tape cleans nicely. White tape always looks "pro" to me.

We could do colored tape to match the frame color blocks. Like red on one side and yellow on the other. If the hue and tone are exactly right. That might be kind of too "precious"?

And then there's black. Jet fookin' black, as they say.

What would you do?

P.S. I'm partial to Fizik perforated tape. It doesn't come in blue, but does come in many other colors like red, yellow, white, black, silver, fluo, etc.

P.P.S. I'm not ruling out changing lever hoods someday if aesthetics compel some color other than black. I have white Campagnolo brifters with white bar tape on a bike and it looks sharp.

jyl

I think the bar looks nice, after we removed the "TOSEEK" logo. The stem is a temporary one; still looking for a sleeker stem but not that many choices with -17 degree angle and 120 mm length.