Phamilton

My ‘83 Schwinn Voyageur has this sticker. It’s not Champion #1 or #2, and I haven’t been able to find much about it online. Are there any experts who can tell me about this tubing?

noobinsf 

Here you go, page 24:

https://www.os2.dhs.org/~john/catalogs/tange-catalog.pdf

Fahrenheit531 

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that is not the original tubing decal.

Phamilton

Everything else on the bike was 100% original when I bought it except MAYBE the tires. I think I’ve seen pics of other ‘83 Voyageurs online with the same decal, just no discussion about it.

Phamilton

Thanks for the link - I’m not really sure how to interpret what I’m looking at in the catalog scan but I’ll spend some more time on it this weekend.

Phamilton

merziac

Glad you finally said it.

T-Mar

Given the length of the tubes on an MX frame, it would have been very wasteful to produce the Motocross tubeset in lengths that could be built into a 25" road frame. I'm also pretty sure the Voyageur didn't use a 25.4mm seat tube with a 22.6mm post, indicative of the Motocross tubeset.

Phamilton

It’s my bike and I ride it and know it. Obviously it’s not BMX tubing. The question is if it’s not BMX tubing and not Champion #1 or 2, then what is it?
I guess that’s why I threw the word expert out there.

TenGrainBread 

My only contribution here is that I've seen a few Voyageurs online with this decal. It looks like at least a batch of these came from the factory with these decals.

merziac

So, can you tell us the ST ID, OD, and SP size?

Phamilton

The seatpost is 26.6. Seat tube is 28.6 like anything else.

Fahrenheit531 

Yeah, looking again that's a factory decal. Just the wrong one. Champion #2 also had a red decal, and that's an appropriate tubing for the Voyageur (as for the Centurion Pro Tour and others). Maybe the decal guy was nearing the end of a long week.

Edit: 26.6 post also points to Champion 2.

Phamilton

I’ll happily assume it’s a mis-stickered Champion #2 if that’s what the community supports. I wonder in the grand scheme of tubing the #2 would be comparable to, if anything. I’m novice about tubing characteristics, and just curious about my bike, why it feels and rides the way it does.

merziac

Long day, no correct one's, didn't care, honest mistake, whatever.

These are great well made frames from a good time in frame production.

Well priced and almost always performed well above their weight class.

Glad it works good for you.

Fahrenheit531 

Maybe that decal means it's worth a gajillion dollars, like that stamp with the upside down plane on it. Of course that would mean we'd have to determine if it's a real mis-stickered 1983 Voyageur, which opens a whole new can of worms.
So we'll disregard that possibility for now.

As for Champion 2, there are numerous threads comparing it favorably to Reynolds 531 and Columbus SL. A quick google of "Tange Champion Reynolds Columbus" will bring them up if you want to actually read the conversations.

T-Mar

But Tange Champion #1 , #2 & #3 all used the exact same seat tube. Also, the plain gauge #5 used the same post diameter. Given 1983 it could also be Tange 900. So, you can't state it's #2 based on solely the post diameter.

Fahrenheit531 

I agree, and if you say it's not Champion 2 I'll just nod quietly, knowing you've forgotten more than I'll ever know about such things.

I was actually looking at #2 based on the Voyageur being an upper-tier touring bike, along with that being the most likely "decal error," based on color similarity. #5's gold decal, for example, would be less likely to slip by unnoticed, if that's what occurred here. Was merely acknowledging that the post diameter was consistent with that possibility.

Phamilton

I honestly wouldn’t care if it was worth anything, I’m not looking to sell it. Best $50 bike I’ve bought so far (45 actually).

If I ever do lose it for any reason it’d be nice to know what to look for to replace it with. That’s what’s got me thinking about tubing. It’s not a lightweight bike but 27lbs includes a triple crank, front and rear racks, and full fenders. I spent a lot of time and logged a lot of miles on lesser bikes. It’s really, extremely nice. I wonder why old touring bikes like this aren’t more popular among bike commuters. Or new touring bikes, for that matter.

Phamilton

Actually, upon thinking about it a little further, the Voyageur is the first bike I’ve spent time on that wasn’t mostly or all hi-ten construction. Aside from a Raleigh Marathon I had that was “575SL Triple Butted Cromoly Main Tubes”. It was a pretty stiff frame compared to the Voyageur, too. My Trek 700 Multitrack is probably the stiffest and stoutest feeling frame I’ve owned and I like it but not for it’s ride quality. I would say the Voyageur is the “flexiest” bike I’ve spent much time on. It’s a pleasant quality, like the “give” makes riding less fatiguing. I’m about 185 lbs and ride moderately, 15-20mph. I even have relatively narrow tires at 27 x 1 1/8 at around 80-90psi. It still really soaks up the bumps compared to all the other bikes I’ve owned. It just sort of glides over the pavement without much effort. And also effort seems to be more easily translated into speed on this bike compared to the others.

merziac

Welcome to the "Steel is real".

Some of these frames will really speak to you, make you fly, put a huge smile on your face and much more.

Once you have experienced this you will know a whole new understanding of why we're here.

I always compare and liken it to vinyl and all else, it has soul, all the rest not so much.

Once you get it, you know, until then, well, you don't.

As I've said before, these are from a wonderful time in cycling, many, many frames at a great pricepoint, fantastic quality and more.

Phamilton

Here’s from an ‘83 for sale on eBay. I also saw an ‘84 that had a Champion #2 sticker.

Phamilton

Given that my bike is made in Japan in 1983, I think the Schwinn badge is probably a bigger scandal than the tubing decal.

Fahrenheit531 

My favorite rider sports that badge. I never felt scandalized.