Rocky Gravol

I want to put a triple on my Peugeot OU10.

I pretty well set on using a Stronglight crank,
because I want to keep the vintage look.

I've settled it down to two choices,
keep my Stronglight 104 122mm bcd,
and put on jonwvara's 122mm tripizler.
122 BCD Triplizers - Red Clover Components.

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...omponents.html

I like the idea of keeping my old crank.

Or replacing my 104 with a Stronglight 99 86mm bcd.
The 86 mm bcd has more options for swapping gear ratios around.

My real question is "Will they fit?"

Will they swap over cleanly, or will I have to get a longer spindle?
If I do, is it something easy to find?

I have a Swiss threaded BB, that I really don't want to replace.
(The cost of a new bb, could double the cost of the project)

My LBS tech, is wisely noncommittal, saying he can't give me an
answer without holding the parts in his hand.

Has anyone here done this?

jonwvara 

If you want to use the triplizer, you will need a longer spindle, but exactly which one will depend to some extent on the cups you are now using. Generally speaking, you'll get a good chainline if you measure the drive-side length of your existing spindle (you will need to remove the spindle to do this, of course) and find a matching spindle that's 6 or 7 mm longer on the drive side. If there's a good bike co-op near you they likely have a drawer full of assorted spindles for you to try.
Another option would be to replace the existing Swiss bb with a Grand Cru threadless BB, which costs about $50, I think. You might be able to sell your existing Swiss BB on ebay for that much if it's in good shape.

If you can live with a 37-tooth ring for a low--I'm guessing you have a 42 on there now--you could keep it as a double without having to make any changes beyond switching chainrings. Going to a freewheel with a 34 big cog at the same time would give you a sub-30-inch low--not far below what you find with a lot of triple setups.

I also like the 86 BCD cranks from Stronglight and others, although the smaller rings for them are not always easy to find.

Rocky Gravol

Yes, I've read through Jon's web site.

But one of the reasons I was asking the question is because,
my LBS just swapped over from double to a triple SR Apex crankset
on my Motobecane Super Mirage, no problem. Took him just minutes,
I watched him do it.

The spindle and bb are not original though, could have
had a longer spinal replaced already.

I know the bikes are different, that's why I was asking.

jonwvara 

You're talking about an 86 bcd Apex, which can be set up as either a double or a triple, correct? It was probably originally set up as a triple, and so had a spindle suitable for a triple. At some point someone probably reconfigured it as a double without changing the spindle. That wouldn't have given an ideal chainline, but would have worked okay. So then when you made it back into a triple, you were setting it up as it had been originally, with the proper spindle for a triple already in place.

That's just a guess, but it seems like a probable scenario to me.

Rocky Gravol

Thank you for replying Jon.

I am not the best bike mechanic. I would not know what to look for, in a bin of parts.
Anything I do, I'll have my LBS do it. But I know these vintage bikes are not profitable,
so I don't what to waste anymore of his time than I have to.
Is a longer spindle something that be just be ordered from a catalogue?

I just don't like the threadless bb. I think they are a last resort. It's just personal.
And Phil Wood stuff is pricy.

I really like your 37 tooth option. I'm riding now with a 52/40 rings with a 14-28 six speed.
I live in a hilly area, and some of the hills here I'm borderline making it up to the top.
Surprisingly, when I do gear calculations your 37 tooth gear option gives me
a lot less overlap of gears. So it's more than just one lower gear.

If it comes down to having to replace the bb, I'll probably go that way.

Rocky Gravol

Old SR crank. 52/40

New SR Apex 52/47/36

Is this what is meant by the chain line?
The chain looks really straight from the small ring to the large sprocket.

I'm thinking it might be more plausible, that when the LBS replace the bb and spindle,
when ahead and replaced it with a longer spindle. Who would know, might even be better.

The UO10.

jonwvara 

Yes, of course, I should have thought of that--super mirages did come with that SR crankset, which I'm quite sure had an appropriate spindle for a double. Maybe the SR has a much lower Q-factor, and so doesn't require as long a spindle? I'm too lazy to look it up, but it could be the same spindle worked for both cranksets.

Rocky Gravol

Thanks again Jon,

I had to look up what the Q-factor was.
It's not something out of Star Trek.

Placing both bikes side by side,
it is visually obvious that the Super Mirage has
more space.

I'm still curious though, with all the UO8,9and 10's out there
there must be someone out there that's tried this before.

Or is the rest of the world flat?

old's'cool

FWIW, I've done several triple conversions, and never needed to get a longer spindle. Chainlines are good in all ranges and would be negatively impacted overall with a longer spindle.

JohnDThompson 

When I ran a Stronglight 99 triple, I used a Stronglight 125 spindle. You'd likely need the same for a triplized mod 93 as well.

Road Fan

The goal of chainline is for a triple to get the chain straight on the middle chainring and the middle sprocket. The desired result is so that the chain deflection is the same for the little-little position and the big-big position.

You set it by in the front for a triple by measuring from the center of the middle chainring to the middle of the down tube, and that should be 45.5 mm (maybe it's 46.5? I'm sure someone will chime in with the correct numbers) within a millimeter. If it isn't right, you need to check that the BB is correctly installed, and if it is, you need a BB of different spindle length. Actually it's the length on the drive side that is really important. In the rear the freewheel or cassette position is essentially automatically correct if the frame is aligned, the hub spacing is correct as new, and the freewheel or cassette are the type originally intended for the bike. Mismatches with a freewheel bike can be resolved with careful adjustment of the lateral position of the hub between the dropouts, re-dishing of the wheel, and possible choosing a different freewheel. Freewheels can also be shimmed on the hub to move them farther from the center of the bike.

Yours looks like you have a 5-speed rear which normally wants a 120 mm frame. But the big gap between your small cog and the drive-side dropout suggests you actually have a 126 mm frame and hub, which would match up better with a 6 speed or 7-speed.

Rocky Gravol

I didn't read your post correctly. I measured off the side of the middle ring,
instead of the middle.
So if we add 1or 2mm, it looks like it's 40mm.

You can see where the paper label was. I peeled it off to save it.
You can also see where I pinstriped the lugs myself.
I got a little sloppy on the bottom.




The UO10 has a factory 6 speed freewheel.

The red Super Mirage does have the factory 5 speed freewheel.
It does look odd with all that space in the back.
A new 6 or 7 speed freewheel is a different project.
One thing at a time.

Rocky Gravol

An update on the project for any future reference.
I'm very happy with way the project turn out.

I went with a Stronglight 99 crankset. Obsolete but fairly easy to find on ebay.
With a 32 tooth granny gear from Hilary Stone in the UK.

The people on the board here were correct,
when they said I needed a longer spindle.
The bike went from a 119mm to a 124mm spindle.
I didn't need to change my Swiss BB.

So I went from a 52/40 crank with a 14-28 freewheel,
to a 52/40/32 crank with the same 14-28 freewheel.
using the original drivetrain parts.

Went to the local bike junk yards looking for a crank and rings.
Didn't find a crank, but found a few obsolete 122mm rings,
for my old Sronglight 104 and a bunch of equally obsolete
86mm rings for the Sronglight 99.

Five dollars a piece, this is where the cost of the project went up.



My old Stonglight 104, didn't need the extra rings I found at the junk yard,
but I couldn't pass up on the BIS rings.
Probably make the crank more desirable when I go to sell it.



My new set up.
Please don't look to closely at my first attempt at drillium.
I was bored over the Thanksgiving holiday weekend.
I know now, how to do it better the next time.



Lines up pretty straight.



All in all, if someone were to be more patient, and look harder for parts,
plus do the work themselves, this project could be done cheaper.

But for me, not including the extra rings, plus I had the my LBS
do the work for me, it was done for less than 150 bucks.

I also see now that jonwvara's Triplizer system, would have been
roughly the same price, and by far, quicker and easier.

dddd

I always "try" for the shortest-possible spindle, given the limitations of chainstay clearance and the front derailer's ability to pull the chain down to the granny ring.

Since I have no reason to run the chain out to the smaller cogs when using the smaller chainrings, in search of redundant ratios and with the chain slapping the chainstay with every bump in the road, I try to achieve a centering of the big chainring with the center of the freewheel.
This allows me to freely use the full range of cogs while riding in the big chainring, using the smaller rings as bail-outs. Again, I do have to assure that the front derailer will shift reliably to the smallest ring as I shorten the spindle length.

Older Apex and Stronglight cranks often tend to allow chain skating across the widely-spaced chainrings, moreso when using the narrower chains that I prefer for better rear shifting. Usually even using 8s chain requires some beveling of the smaller ring's teeth to encourage the chain not hanging between chainrings where it can do some damage to the chainrings and cause other havoc.

I have forcefully threaded a Shimano UN71 bb into Swiss-threaded bb shell, then using a Stronglight 93 crankset on the 115mm JIS spindle.
The results were good though the front downshifting is less forceful since the chainrings are more inboard from the new bb's lack of offset.
The JIS taper did make up for the spindle having been shortened from 118 to 115mm, just the offset is gone so net loss of a few mm there.

It does seem that the OP fortunately has a decent shop available, having the needed spindles to choose from and getting it all working.

fietsbob

book marked this a while ago, another tripleizer XXcycle - Plateau Stronglight Intermediaire porteur triple 130/74 - en

jonwvara 

Nice project!

TA also makes a 130 and a 135 triplizer. But I'm damned if I can see how that Stronglight intermediate porteur triple can possibly be installed on a crankset unless you first grind off the "ledges" that center the chainrings (see Red Clover Components - Blog).

I would be delighted if someone who has direct experience with one of the Stronglight 130s would explain how it works, or better yet post a picture of one installed on a crank.

fietsbob

A doubleizer for the single chainring new Brompron cranks was what came to Mind for Me, they dont have the centering shelf . the arm is outside the chainring. **
so It + a longer spindle would do . the trick .

** Campag Record Off Road crank did Similar, Back In The Day ..

jonwvara 

Wait, what?

How do you mount this on a crankset with shelves/ledges? Or does it only work with those cranks that don't have ledges?

fietsbob

Read again.. I was referring to a different design..



Chuck a cut off an Old square taper BB spindle in a Lathe. Mount the crank on it. and machine off the shelf if you wish . to get it good and Flat.
a decent machine shop can do that in an Hour.

Stronglight also Supplies the cranks that Brompton uses to assemble their bikes
people have been Bolting a granny gear on the Outside of the Older swaged 50t Brompton cranks , with greasy finger shifting whether the granny gear is inside or outside
doesn't matter, they just took off the plastic trouser guard.

you may be happier with the offset types .. they have been around from various sources for a while, ... Happy Shopping..

jonwvara 

Okay, thanks. I'm still confused, but that's normal for me.

79pmooney

Before you get too far into this, I suggest an easy thing to check on your UO-10. Measure the distance from the inside of your inner chainring to the chainstay at the diameter of the inside ring you plan to put on. Now measure the distance from the inside of the outer chainring to the inside of the inner chainring. If that is as large as your first measurement, the teeth of the new chainring will be very close hitting the chainstay. But if it is even just a small amount smaller, the new ring should fit with no changes to the BB axle.

Yes, the chainline isn't "ideal". You may not be able to use your smallest and next to smallest cogs on the inside ring. Purists will say you shouldn't anyway. Possibly your front derailleur will not move in far enough to do the shift but if it made to handle a triple, I would be surprised if that happens and I would just go try another.

Doing this first (if it works) means you will get to where you want to be without taking everything apart, only to find that your new, longer BB axle is designed for slightly different BB cups (say with cones that have fatter shoulders). This would place the whole axle further to the left and negate the gains you expected. Stronglight has been around many years. I highly doubt that there has been no design or tooling changes over the years.

Ben

Rocky Gravol

Well, it's already been done, and I'm happy with the results.
There was an attempt to use the old spindle,
and on a loose fit it appeared to work.
But when it was tighten down, it showed itself to be to short.

I think I could tell the wider Q-factor, but it might've been in my head.
Anyway I've already adjusted to it.

Plus along with my 52/40/32 combo,
I have extra rings in 53,46,42,34,28,
I can try mix and matching, to get it down to where
it fits best for my riding.

Although the shop was leery if the 28 tooth,
could be used without more modifications.

The owner of my LBS, was at one time long ago,
the local dealer for French bikes.
So he likes vintage French bikes, if only for nostalgia.
Going as far as when the vintage bikes come in for repairs,
instead of hanging them up on racks in the back,
he puts them out on the floor so people can admire them.

So I tend to trust him and his techs.

Except he was putting pressure on me to upgrade to a TA crankset.

Rocky Gravol

Not to get off topic but,
one of the reasons I chose the Stronglight 99,
was because the rings were compatible with the
SR Apex I used to tripleize my Super Mirage, in the photos above.

Thinking I could swap, and mix rings back and forth to get the desired combos,
that fit my riding.

But I'm sad to say that, that bike was stolen last month,
so that's not a option anymore.

greg3rd48 

I am also considering triplizing a U08 in over the winter. I have all the components except the FD. What FD do you suggest that will over sufficient range to reach each ring on the crank or would a Suntour Spirt or 7 work? I am thinking not...

dddd

A Mountech front derailer will accommodate the widest range of possible gearing, especially different sizes of middle ring.

Newer derailers tend to be designed for specific gearing step increments, such that the cage may rub against the middle ring when the largest ring is engaged.

I've used standard front Cyclone derailers for various triples with 34-52t total range, and the smooth cage plates weren't fussy about the particular gearing increments. It even indexed perfectly with a 7-speed-era SIS front shifter!