ax0n

As a very new face to the bike scene that exists beyond the walls of department/discount warehouses, I can back you up 100%

I needed basic transportation. A bike is a bike, right? That's what americans think. They don't know the quality difference between Shimano and Gisu or between Next and Trek. Bikes are cheap at wal-mart, and expensive at any shop that has "Bike" in the name.

For the first 2/3 of my life, I rode cheap bikes. They either came in a box you put together yourself, or they came slapped together, requiring a complete overhaul by my dad and I before riding. I thought that's just how bikes were until I took my misbehaving Next bike to a bike shop and was practically laughed at, then given an opportunity to buy a $400 "entry level" bike.

Fortunately, I take criticism very, very well. I rationalize with people. After leveling with him, the bike shop manager told me what was broken and that it would cost more to fix than I bought it for. After asking why those things were breaking, I finally got out of him what I needed to know. The components were made for a 100 pound teenager who might put 10 miles on it per month, and I'm a lard-ass that was putting 150 miles a month on it.

I eventually bought a used bike from them, and they're great people. But a lesser man would have been grossly offended and probably done with cycling for good after a run-in like that.

Anyhow, Kudos to Phil. Whether it makes good business sense or not, it's a somewhat noble cause.

vrkelley

Well that might feel good but customers can only buy so many bikes and once he taps 'em out on bike sales, if they don't come back for something...and regularly, I'm not sure he'd be able to even make rent esp. in the 'dry' months

I-Like-To-Bike

That certainly appears to be value. Now the question is, does anyone have any experience with this company's mail order products actually being available anywhere or are they like the Electra Amsterdam - all smoke and mirrors.

Speaking of the Electra "Amsterdam", Treespeed have you actually seen one on the streets of LA? I also wonder how many of the single speed cruisers you see around LA are less than 20 years old. 20 years old is fine, because they will probably be good for another 20 years too; just there has been almost none available new, anywhere in the US (that I've noticed) for a long time. An Electra "Amsterdam" type bike sold at a reasonable price (and not an exorbitant price for a Chinese made low tech bike that may or may not ever show up) would be a good thing.

Treespeed

ILTB, I understand your skepticism, as it's obviously your natural state, but out here you can buy any type of cruiser you want brand new. I haven't seen an amsterdam yet in Los Angeles, but I see Electras all the time and I've seen Dutch bikes on Campus. Just because you aren't seeing these bikes in Iowa doesn't mean you couldn't get one if you wanted it badly enough.
People would probably prefer some of these simpler bikes, but becuase of their rarity they will demand a premium. I seriously doubt that an LBS could stay afloat in most cities catering to such a niche clientele. I'm sure most people would be happier on the kinds of bikes one sees in Amsterdam, but sadly those are not the bikes that sell and it's not just the industry's fault. Just like with cars if someone wants an electric car you can find one. You can't blame the auto industry for SUV's if no one wanted these cars then the companies would go out of business.

DCCommuter

I disagree. This forum -- commuting -- is full of people who are very low-ego, and very forthcoming and patient with specific and helpful advice. I mean, a guy just started a thread about the advantages of disc brakes vs. v-brakes -- and he got a half dozen serious answers with just a little gentle nudging about how the topic might have been discussed before.

I think you're thinking of another neighboring forum.

You notice that too? In normal life I'm an average size guy, and in the clothing section of a bike shop I'm Gulliver among the Lilliputians.

SingingSabre 

The guy has a point with his philosophy.

However, so do LBSs who offer high-end bikes.

If he can get his message out there to enough people in the right demographics, those who share his philosophy will flock to his store and make him a success.

The ones who don't have a use for his store will not go there.

If he doesn't make it, then the next guy who comes along has some lessons to be taken and has a little stronger of a chance of making it.

newsace

True, but I guess I'm thinking that approach may not be as easy to translate to bicycles, since our (U.S., at least) society is so car-centric. You can pretty easily find a halfway decent used car, just by driving down the road or looking through the classifieds. Most people are at least somewhat comfortable with deciding whether to buy a used car based on a test drive and maybe having a relative or the neighborhood shadetree mechanic take a cursory look at it. But I don't think most (non-"real cyclist")people are savvy enough about bicycles to call up somebody who's listed a bike for sale in the classifieds, take a quick spin on it, and tell a huge difference between that $150 used bike and the $100-$150 brand new one down at Wally World or Sports Authority. Sure, we know it probably is vastly superior, but to Jane or John Doe, it's the same price and it's used, so the shiny new one must be better. And, at least in my random look-sees at what passes for the "used bicycle dealer" (pawn shops), most of the big line of used bikes chained up out front are those same quintuple suspension toy bikes from the big box places, or rusted out 30-year-old 10-speeds from Sears.

Yeah, but how do we get there? As long as the big boxes are selling the $100-$150 brand new "toy" bike (which serves even plenty of daily commuters well enough--generalizing, obviously, but thinking primarily of the low-income immigrant workers for whom those bikes are primary transportation), and unless we get to $10 a gallon gas or whatever level it takes before more people start parking their cars and looking for alternatives, I still think there's a vast unserved middle ground which could be targeted with a decent quality/low cost new bike (which, in my little fantasy world here, would then result in more people looking for higher priced bikes, more decent used bikes on the market, and more people with the awareness/knowledge of what makes a good bike so they could advise the teens in search of their first good used bike).

I-Like-To-Bike

Humor me. Please elaborate on what passes for a Dutch bike in LA. Are they Gazelle, Union, Sparta, Batavus or some other Dutch brand; perhaps Oma (Granny type pictured below with Queen Juliana) single speeds with extreme rake and high handlebars. Or you talking about high end Koga Miyata; or is it something else?

In my U.S. Middle West and Eastern Seaboard travels I never saw a Dutch bike used by any cyclist; but a zillion older English 3 speed bikes used by college students and city commuters.

In the Netherlands I never saw a local riding anything in any city that looked like the majority of "commuter" bikes pictured on the BF Commuter pictures sticky thread.

wahoonc

And as a general rule the average American doesn't want used the want brand new. Those of us that haven't bought into that particular load of crap make out like a bandit at thrift shops, yard sales and flea markets My LBS quite often will have a pretty decent fleet of used/trade ins to sell. If one that is in my size sits too long I will get a call from them asking if I am looking for anything I have bought several that way.

Aaron

radical_edward

I have a concern for his business model in that he is competing not with 'regular' bike stores, but with department store bikes. Though I think that a service based store is the best way to break into the bike business without a lot of capital or loans for floor stock.

Too bad his retro-grouchery may get in the way of success as a service mechanic. There is a huge aftermarket in high end cycling kit on the internet, but you have to be prepared to deal with attitude from stores if you have to use their mechanic to fit internet purchased parts that are often sourced at a lower price than the LBS can get at wholesale. Not all stores are like this, but I would rather take my business to a mechanic that does not have the sales pressure or attitude that makes the situation unpleasant.

Some of the best mechanics in my country are now setting themselves up as service only businesses rather than continue to work for the larger chain LBS stores. The best mechanics will treat a bike found in the dumpster with the same care as an all carbon fibre italian racing bike. However, the dumpster bike will likely only need tyre and brake block changes on occasion, but the race bike will be stripped and rebuilt at least once a year.

Domhannic

I read the article and have fond memories when I had a small bicycle repair shop in Indianapolis. Of course this was 25 years ago and I was young and bikes were mad of steel. It was more of a hobby venture since I also worked at a bar 3 nights a week. For the most part it was great fun and profitable but, it sure was no way to get rich. If this shop in Boston can make a go of it on his own terms I commend him. I hope guys our age are the first and possibly the last of of a breed of bikers. Baby boomers are so f@#$ spoiled with their $4000.00 Carbon Fiber bikes! What you may lose in stamina you make up in low weight bikes, join the Viagra crowd if you want to keep up! If we can support the local guy who has a small shop then go seek them out. Minneapolis has 3 shops that come to mind run by sole proprietors. Chicago has loads too. Sorry if the rant is tooooooo....

Adiankur

There is a shop near where I live that is similar to the one in this article. I bought two new tires and tubes for $20 but thats about it. If I was looking for tubes and tires cheap, for an old bike, I would stop in, but otherwise, I dont. If it was a combination old/new shop, with some availability of slightly higher priced items, plus availability to have things I needed ordered, I would go more often. As things stand, I stop in the shop where I bought my mtb, to have things adjusted, or if I wanted to look at the bianchis or fujis. If I need something like koolstops, I got to another LBS, as the other shop doesn have them, or I order online.

As it stands, I often feel guilty for not buying a more expensive bike at the shop I stop in at. I was asking about road bikes once, and asked about getting used, but the guy at the LBS said I should get a new one fitted to me, so I know what its like riding a properly fitted bike. He pointed me at $1000+ bikes. I would think he realized that I wasn't spending that much, after my purchase of a mtb was sub $400. They still show me very expensive bikes whenever I stop in. I feel like a cheapskate every time I go to that specific shop.

I guess what im saying is the guys idea is good, but that he is missing out on other possibilities. I think you can sell used and inexpensive bikes, as well as more expensive ones, and make sure to give people the feeling that you appreciate them even when they buy the less expensive bikes.

buzzman

Pretty accurate assessment all the way from Alberta "pinkrobe".

I, too, respect his desire for simplicity and think it could be a workable, though not enormously profitable, enterprise. But his location is iffy at best and there are a plethora of high end bike shops in the Boston area and surrounding suburbs who not only offer top priced models but also offer good basic commuter bikes in $4-500 range. It's not mentioned in the article but Framingham is an ideal community to commute to the train station on a bike or to a "share a ride" location and that would be the market he might target.

He seems to have wasted the invaluable newspaper attention by being negative- not a plus. Referring to some cyclists as spandex clad clowns may not be the best business approach. Alienating and narrowing your customer base doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Treespeed

I've seen the children's passenger style bikes that looked exactly like ones I saw in Amsterdam and another folding bike with a child's passenger seat that looked asian to me. But you have to remember that there is a huge European community in this city.

I saw a few folks riding high end road bikes in Amsterdam and a couple of fixed gears, but that was just last fall.

I don't understand your insistence that any kind of bike a person might want isn't available. Even Bicycling magazine did a whole story on the chinese pidgeon and how you might get one if you wanted to. The problem I experienced was trying to find a 60cm frame in Italy. You should have seen the laughing every time I went into Italian bike shops surrounded by 54s.

There aren't as many people commuting in Los Angeles as should be given the terrain and the weather, but there is a diversive bicycle culture and I would be willing to bet that you could get or have made any bicycle you wanted here.

donnamb 

There's yet another LBS in Portland (we really do have a lot of them) that is a Pake dealer. Now this shop mostly caters to the fixed gear crowd, and I'll bet those are the kind of Pake bikes the owner keeps in the store. I'm sure she'd order if someone wanted to buy one and she didn't stock it. Who knows, if enough work commuters (she's downtown - Portlanders, it's Veloshop) went in and asked about it, maybe she'd carry one for people to try out. Shall I add this to my list of future LBS lunchtime browsing expeditions, ILTB?

gregtheripper

if this is the same guy i'm thinking of, he has a pretty bad reputation for not knowing how to assemble bikes. he was selling fuji tracks at blowout prices, like $375 or so, but wasn't tightening the lockrings properly. i'm sure by now hes figured it out, but according to craigslist it looks like he had to clear out his inventory since hes not an authorized fuji dealer anymore. however, i may be mistaken. a guy i know did just buy a bike from him recently, though, and it's holding up fine.

his motives are admirable, but the execution seems poor. bikes not bombs operates under a similar agenda, but manages to do just fine and is actually in boston. being a nonprofit might have something to do with their success, though. shops like cambridge and boston bicycle don't do a lot of high end sales, it's mostly repair and accessories. my friend who works there tells me that these $250 jamis mtb's are selling pretty well. but they do offer higher end items. diversification isn't necessarily bad, and by alienating the enthusiasts this shop owner is really doing himself a disservice.

PedalMasher

There a shop near me that sells lots of used bikes similar to thw owner in the article. Great idea and location. Unfortunately, it's one of those places completely unorganized with bike laying all around, old bar tape for sale that must've been from the 80's, stuff like that. I wish he would run a tight ship it would be a great place.

I-Like-To-Bike

Yes, please, and also ask if the shop can provide any kind of firm delivery date to a customer for bikes not on the floor. I'd be interested and appreciate your findings.

chicbicyclist

ILTB, The Electra Amsterdam is not even released yet, Geezus.

Electra says Dec and Jan. If, after Jan, they are still not available, then maybe your constant complaint about not seeing one would have any bearings.

chipcom 

Funny how a pretty gal always brings out the 'nice' manners in us.

superslomo

I've stopped in at a store a bunch of times right near work, which has Merckx, Seven, and all kinds of other ridonkulously expensive bike frames hanging over the counter, no clothes except for Assos, etc. etc.

All I was there for was a few cables, some loose balls to repack bearings, brake shoes/pads, and the guy was absolutely pleasant and helpful about the whole thing. I know there were people there who were paying him more for much more exotic stuff, but he had old beaters in there for repair as well as really expensive gear. You do need to cater to the expensive tastes as well as the pedestrian ones to make a marketplace satisfied.

And, FWIW, you can pick up assorted hybrid bikes for less than 300, which is a reaction to the fact that people starting don't want to buy a road bike, they want flattish bars, and a padded seat with a triple chainring and platform pedals. They may eventually upsell to a road bike (either new or used) and will probably be ready to spend more $ when they do, and will appreciate what they are actually paying for at that point.

squeakywheel

I've never spent more than $250 on a bike, and I have 7 in my garage. One for each kid, one for the wife, and 4 for me. That's fair isn't it? Anyway, I'm one of the tire kickers CigTech saw walk into the store, turn and walk away. I'm not spending $1000 on a bike. Not gonna happen. Don't need to. If I were racing and wanted to be somewhat competitive, maybe I'd spend $1000. A friend of mine just dropped $2500 on a time-trial bike for triathlons. He's 40 years old, runs 8 minute miles, and finishes in the middle of the pack compared to other old duffers. I was kidding him. Hey, I bet that new bike will improve your finish line standing from 75th to maybe 68th place.

I-Like-To-Bike

My "complaint" is about constant hyping of a product that no one has seen and is certainly nothing new; just an apparant overpriced offering of a Chinese copy of a very simple (and practical) bike that is available everywhere else but North America, and at a far more reasonable price.

pinkrobe

That's a perfect example of a well-run shop. It doesn't matter whether you're buying cables for your $50 POS or your $5000 POS, they cost the same, and represent the same profit to the shop owner. Anyone who discriminates against a section of the market does themselves a disservice...

SSP

As opposed to slow girl products?