Ericoschmitt

Oracles of online forums, please enlighten my soul! Thanks in advance for anyone reading quite a lenghty post, and adding to it!

Hello, I've been thinking for a while about a gravel bike, and I'm now willing to make thought become reality.
So far I've been riding road and fixies, including hitting dirt roads with 23mm slicks that had rocks way bigger than that. After seeing some numbers at https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/ I'm now convinced that there are big mtb tires that roll better than the gatorskins I ride on my fixie daily! I'm probably using this bike for big sunday rides, light touring, some slower group rides, and maybe even XC racing, why not.

So, most important, I'm looking for a bike that fits 60mm tires, more specifically I'm willing to fit Schwalbe G-one Speed 2.35" tires, as they have insanelly low rolling resistance, and at 55 psi they ride better than the GP4000iiS on my road bike! They are just not aero, as they are much wider, but thats not the idea here. Should I decide to ride bad roads or go on a tour I can fit something else that wide as I wish. I wont be fitting narrow tires on this bike, I have road bikes for that. I'm also looking for 622 rims (29er) for more confort and better rolling on dirt roads.

Still, the most important aspect of aero is the rider, and I like the idea of the 3T Exploro "aero gravel" bike. I see myself using it on dirt roads, but to get to those I must ride asphalt, so the bike should perform well on asphalt as I'm not driving to the countryside to ride. I dont like the idea of riding a slow and slugish 29 mtb slowly on the asphalt anywhere. Problem is this frameset is crazy expensive and doesn't fit big tires.

So I have a few doubts for this bike's geometry, besides tire clearance:
1) All my road bikes have steep 77 degrees angle because I like having the saddle with the nose above BB, and riding with low stem. I'm very flexible, and even with a zero setback post, I never wanted to put the saddle behind. 3 of these bikes are custom built on steel, the other is a cheap alu frameset. I don't expect to be riding with 77 seat tube angle, but most gravels seem to be at 71-71 and I'm looking for 74 for more confort and control on bad roads. What do you think?
2) I suppose a longer wheelbase should be benefical. I dont care abot toe overlap on road, but gravel might be different, especially if I decide venture on somewhere more technical. How long a wheelbase, if my road bikes are 52cm TT with 120 stems? I could calculate the toe overlap thing by making a BikeCad bike already, but I'm not sure I'm going the custom route if I can find a nice frame off the shelf.
3)Should I look for a bigger frame and shorter stem for quicker handling? I suppose so, what about 56cm+80mm?
4)I thought about building on a MTB frame, but they are made for a long travel fork, so the handlebar with a 29 rigid fork gets quite high for my taste, and the angles are too slack. Maybe if i use a 26" rigid fork with small crown that accepts 622 rims with 60mm tyres I could lower the front end while making the seat tube angle go steeper, but how can I calculate how much steeper that would get for which lenght of fork? And what about the BB drop, would it get too low with a shorter fork? And HT angle, too steep? That leads to...
5) HT angle, one of my road bikes has quite a steep 75 angle with short trail fork. I like that on the road, but I think a 71 degree HT with more rake helps making a longer wheelbase, more stable and confortable ride. So thats where a MTB frame conversion fails, I guess.
6)how much BB drop if i'm not planning to use smaller tires? I like being able to pedal on corners, but I'm not sure what I should look for on gravel anyway.
7)mtb frames often have curved downtubes, and that makes less room for a frame bag if I go bikepacking
8)Fat bike frames could work, but they require wider crank for heel clearance, and might not be able to fit a front shifter.

So, with all those points, I doubt I will find a frame that satisfies all that, but if someone knows, please tell me!!! Probably I'll have to go custom, so there goes the rest of the list:

9)Any fork recommendations? Shortest one that will fit these tires... Any experience with those $100 forks on ebay, like Toseek or Airwolf? Both these in 26" seem to have enough crown clearance for 60mm tires and still room for a couple fingers or more. If I go custom I might aswell get custom forks, but steel forks are quite heavy in proportion to the frame.
10)I'm thinking about Stan's Arch MK3 rims, light alloy, 29.3mm external. Anything better at $100?
11)G-One Speed comes in Snakeskins TL eazy and Liteskin (100g less, "not" tubeless). Can I run the lighter version tubeless on these rims? Not sure if I should save those 200g, if that might make tires pop off in a corner... Experience with that combination? What pressure range could I run with each setup?
12)Cable disc brakes with road levers. Sram or Avid bb7? Or others?
13)I'm going 3x11, no discussion. But my 3 options are: Campagnolo Athena 3x11 shifters with some mtb cranks, OR, Tektro levers and (Microshift?) barend shifters, OR Sram x1 shifter and right lever with bar end shifter for the front. Opinions? I'm planning getting FSA cranks 44/33/22x12-25 (And I can swap 12-29 if I need, got one already). I do hate gaps on cassettes! Ive checked a few possibilities at bikecalc and this one looks really good.
14)How wide rear end? 135?142? 148? Any wide disc brake hub I could fit a campagnolo freehub? Shimano and sram cassettes all start with the useless 11t cog, except for shimano 12-25, but then I wouldnt have the option to use 12-29. I wish there was some 13-32 around... I suppose wider axle also makes for a more outboard cassette, which would make the chain clearance on a triple less of an issue. But I know nothing about that. Are there 135mm mtb frames that are able to run triples with 2.35 tires?? Should I look for thru-axle?

Thats quite a lot of stuff, I think each question could be a topic alone... My custom road bike took me 1 and a half year to resarch all parts and build, I'm hoping you can help me make this new quest shorter!!! If the general conclusion is that I must get a custom frame, then I'll move the geometry detail discussion to a new topic in framebuilding session. Thanks!

Ericoschmitt

Wow, helpful!

There are cross bikes up to 2.1 tires and fat bikes with drop bars already, not anything really new. I just dont go with industry standards unless that is what works for me.

DrIsotope

Koga Beach Racer?

tangerineowl

Not aware of any 3x option, dropbar framesets with that tyre clearance.

I'd be looking at local custom steel, or a ti frame you've designed in CAD and sent off to one of the better chinese fabricators.

Re the alu rims I'd add the DT Swiss range.
Brakes: Juin Tech R1/F1 with compressionless housing.

TimothyH

Lower expectations of perfection to something less than 100%, build a Raleigh Roker and hit the dirt.

Video & Photo Feature: The Ultimate Carbon Gravel Bike? 17.4lbs of lush! - Gravel Cyclist: The Gravel Cycling Experience


-Tim-

Ericoschmitt

Looks like what I want! Thanks!

I have to ask them if the fork accepts 2.35 as they sell with 2.1, and also if they sell frameset only, as I would probably change every part...

Do you know about anything else similar, to compare?

Paul Barnard

I have flats and drops in the same gravel bike package.

Ericoschmitt

I hadnt read your post before, sorry. What would be a chinese builder that would make my cad real?

Thanks for the rim and brake tips!

Ericoschmitt

This Raleigh looks great! Wont fit 2.35'' though but I'll consider it

BigC_82

van dessel wtf can fit close to everything u need

tyrion

If you can accept a 27.5" x 2.35" tire there's the Surly Midnight Special and the All City Gorilla Monsoon. The Midnight Special is steeper/roadier and the Gorilla Monsoon is slacker/dirtier. Fresh designs for the fat tire craze.

Ericoschmitt

Those cs/tt in the Van Dessel wtf look quite weird, and they don´t seem to fit big tires;

But the Gorilla looks good! 27,5 is probably fine at this tire width, but it´s hard to be sure there will be clearance for a triple crankset there... While the Koga Beach racer looks great, I could get a Gorilla as frameset only - if it fits a triple.

The Surly Midnight Special has nearly the same geometry in my size, only half a degree steeper HT and 5mm shorter wheelbase. HT length is 15mm shorter, so it would be closer to my taste! And if it fits 50/34 cranks it certainly fits a triple! At $625 frameset seems like we have a winner!!!

I´ll start to look for retailers now!

Still I´m considering a custom frameset, as I can get the tubes and carbon fork for some $300 and If I order it from Spino in Brazil (where I live) it will cost me probably the same, as we have very high import taxes, and its cheaper to pay taxes only for the tubes than for the whole frameset. I have to decide on that now...

OneIsAllYouNeed

Adding a few more off-the-shelf options:
Raleigh Stuntman
Soma Wolverine
Rawland Xsogn

I've ridden with the Schwalbe Big One 27.5 x 2.35" (predecessor to G-One Speed) on the road. It's definitely a fast-rolling tire. The ride quality with tires that large seems more sensitive to tire pressure than with narrower tires.

tangerineowl

Waltly - Makers of custom high-end titanium bicycle frames, forks and small parts

mongol777

Also check Home - Black Mountain Cycles, new monstercross disc and road plus frames should be released soon

mstateglfr 

Awesome frames, i own one, but about .4" too limited on tire clearance.

mstateglfr 

That was a lot of info and qurstions, so ill just stick to #13 of your post.
Consider https://www.gevenalle.com/shifters/ for 3x11 shifting. I have them set up on a 2x11 gravel bike and love the setup. Flicking the shifters back and forth is easy and the Microshift bar ends are well made.

Clem von Jones

Lately I've been wondering why so many gravel bikes limit themselves to relatively high pressure and heavy 40c tires when there are so many better tubeless mtb tires. At a minimum I'd want something like this Compass 44c tubeless slick that weighs 329 grams. I could see running these on the Raleigh Stuntman.

https://www.compasscycle.com/shop/co...oqualmie-pass/


Because who needs heavy, skinny, high-pressure tires? Yuck.

Facanh

Maybe it's just me but I would have a hard time trusting a 44c tyre that weighs 329g when going offroad. That weight saving has to come out of somewhere. I know there are happy Compass users out there (and some that have issues with them) but still...

I think there are great options for 38-42 "gravel" tyres that are not paper thin but not super heavy like a commuter tyre. Some people also prefer a bit of tread, and if it's done right you lose almost nothing on pavement.

I agree on the volume thing, although a lot depends on the terrain that you ride. Also I ride my 37s at 2.4 bar back and 2.0 bar front. At that pressure they can be pretty good offroad. But i'm switching to 43s.

mstateglfr 

I accept that i dont jump on all the latest trends, but a wider tire than 10-20 years ago is something i accept and use.
Even still, its funny to see someone make a general claim that 40mm tires are too skinny and high pressure for gravel road riding.
This is still road riding, just unpaved roads.

Also- 40mm or 44mm is splitting hairs to me. The difference in volume is, i dont think, not going to sudddenly allow me to run some significantly diffrrent air pressure. I may drop a few psi, but i just dont keep track that closwly of psi to begin with.

Marcus_Ti

What is your budget? Both frame/fork, and for components?

This shopping list of wants puts you in custom territory, simply on the geometry front alone. I can only think of one CF front fork that can fit 60mm tires, and it is 480 axle-crown length, so you're probably going to need a steel fork.

Fitting 60mm tires is also a problem on the chainline and gearing front.

Triples are dead WRT 11 speed indexed mechanical. Only if you use Di2 XT or XTR can you use triples with 11s. If that is beyond your budget, then you'll need to shop NOS 10s.

mongol777

GM will fit triple, from AC website: "Here’s the max ring sizes for each setup: 1X = 38T, 2X = 28/42, 3X = 26/36/48"

mongol777

Yes, but may fit 650B - I have AWOL which can fit 700cx2.35 slicks with really tight clearance. I tried to fit G-Ones 650Bx2.35 mounted on Velocity Blunts 35 and rear was a no go. But they do fit on narrower rims so not true 2.35 but close enough.
I am waiting for his road plus frame release, should be a great complement to All-City GM. My plan is for GM to have two wheelsets, one with G-Ones 650Bx2.35 and another with more rowdy tires and I am looking to replace AWOL with something a bit more fast and agile, keeping the clearance for up to 650Bx2 with fenders. So at this point I can go with Midnight Special or Road Plus from BMC

Clem von Jones

The early versions of the Salsa Fargo with non-corrected-for-suspension fork in a smaller frame size is probably your only mass-produced option.

tangerineowl

re your 9). the 3T Leutus II fork fits a 29x2.3" knobby with room.

There's a secondhand one here with a link to pics/tyre installed:-
https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=219367