Endurance Bike
08-19-19, 01:18 PM
#76
Full Member
Sorry for not replying sooner! Turns out I can only post five times a day. And then the weekend happened.
So, I did something bad. I went to a larger bike shop yesterday and the guy asks "have you ridden a road bike?" Of course I said no, so he put me on a 61 cm Diverge E5 Comp. That bug has a vicious bite. I didn't walk out with a new bike, but I'm tapping my fingers impatiently trying to figure out my next steps.
Some takeaways from a brief 10 minute ride: Drop bars aren't uncomfortable, in fact they felt more comfortable and I felt myself putting less pressure on them, likely due to the more neutral wrist position. Even though the Diverge is a gravel bike, it still felt much more nimble than my hybrid. Shifting felt nicer, mainly because I was using my fingers instead of my thumbs, so it also felt more stable. The lightness of the bike was also nice. In summary, I'm fairly sure even the "endurance" geometry is going to be significantly more racy than what I have.
That bike shop (nicer of the two by far. The other I went to had maybe 20 road bikes on display, this one had nearly 80, and then hundreds of other stuff) sells Cannondale, Trek and Specialized, so I'll likely narrow my field down to those three brands, assuming I buy new. I'm going to keep my eye open for used, but after a few days of searching it's felt damn near impossible to find something in a larger frame (obviously a few days is small in comparison to an entire winter), plus since I know snot at this point about what to look for in a used bike, I'm less inclined to buy used.
The LBS said they'd be fine letting me take the bike out for like an hour ride and they have a 30 day policy that if I'm not happy with the bike they'd take it back and put me in another that I'd be more comfortable in, so my thought right now is figure out maybe a 15 mile ride near the shop, maybe find a day to go ride it on my current bike to get familiar with the route, then maybe try a bike or two in a high-entry level price range. The season is closing in, but worst case I can set it up on the trainer and use the winter to work on form and flexibility on an actual bike instead of a gym stationary (plus, I can probably squeeze in another ride each week if it's in the basement as opposed to driving to and from the gym). Still TBD.
Any opinions on Cannondale Synapse? Eying the 2019 105 at $1575, but it may be out in my size. I think my second is the Tiagra (2019 or 2020, only a $35 delta). I'd consider the 2020 105, but it's $1800 and looking at gear-calculator it's just a smaller step at the low end (at 80 rpm 28 mm tires the Tiagra is 11, 12, 14 mph and the 105 is 11, 12, 13, 14 mph, but the tiagra can hit 13 mph with a slightly higher or low cadence in the other gears), so that seems like a steep price delta for what feels like a really minor difference (especially since that money could be spent on shoes, pedals, a new computer, etc.). Be nice if this was available with caliper instead of disc brakes to lower the cost, but seems like many bikes these days are coming with disc brakes.
What about the Specialized Allez Elite? Less expensive at $1350 for a 105, but it's an 11-32 (seems the 11-34 spaces gears out more than all the others for more even steps throughout, where the others tend to put more in the small teeth, either for smaller steps at higher speeds or to keep the chainline straighter?). Calipher brakes, more racy, but I am getting mixed on whether it can ride 28 mm tires (25 mm standard).
Last one I noticed at this LBS is they have Jamis. They have a Jamis Ventura Race. Tiagra, 11-32. Not really much cheaper than the Synapse Tiagra, but a few bucks less.
So, I did something bad. I went to a larger bike shop yesterday and the guy asks "have you ridden a road bike?" Of course I said no, so he put me on a 61 cm Diverge E5 Comp. That bug has a vicious bite. I didn't walk out with a new bike, but I'm tapping my fingers impatiently trying to figure out my next steps.
Some takeaways from a brief 10 minute ride: Drop bars aren't uncomfortable, in fact they felt more comfortable and I felt myself putting less pressure on them, likely due to the more neutral wrist position. Even though the Diverge is a gravel bike, it still felt much more nimble than my hybrid. Shifting felt nicer, mainly because I was using my fingers instead of my thumbs, so it also felt more stable. The lightness of the bike was also nice. In summary, I'm fairly sure even the "endurance" geometry is going to be significantly more racy than what I have.
That bike shop (nicer of the two by far. The other I went to had maybe 20 road bikes on display, this one had nearly 80, and then hundreds of other stuff) sells Cannondale, Trek and Specialized, so I'll likely narrow my field down to those three brands, assuming I buy new. I'm going to keep my eye open for used, but after a few days of searching it's felt damn near impossible to find something in a larger frame (obviously a few days is small in comparison to an entire winter), plus since I know snot at this point about what to look for in a used bike, I'm less inclined to buy used.
The LBS said they'd be fine letting me take the bike out for like an hour ride and they have a 30 day policy that if I'm not happy with the bike they'd take it back and put me in another that I'd be more comfortable in, so my thought right now is figure out maybe a 15 mile ride near the shop, maybe find a day to go ride it on my current bike to get familiar with the route, then maybe try a bike or two in a high-entry level price range. The season is closing in, but worst case I can set it up on the trainer and use the winter to work on form and flexibility on an actual bike instead of a gym stationary (plus, I can probably squeeze in another ride each week if it's in the basement as opposed to driving to and from the gym). Still TBD.
Any opinions on Cannondale Synapse? Eying the 2019 105 at $1575, but it may be out in my size. I think my second is the Tiagra (2019 or 2020, only a $35 delta). I'd consider the 2020 105, but it's $1800 and looking at gear-calculator it's just a smaller step at the low end (at 80 rpm 28 mm tires the Tiagra is 11, 12, 14 mph and the 105 is 11, 12, 13, 14 mph, but the tiagra can hit 13 mph with a slightly higher or low cadence in the other gears), so that seems like a steep price delta for what feels like a really minor difference (especially since that money could be spent on shoes, pedals, a new computer, etc.). Be nice if this was available with caliper instead of disc brakes to lower the cost, but seems like many bikes these days are coming with disc brakes.
What about the Specialized Allez Elite? Less expensive at $1350 for a 105, but it's an 11-32 (seems the 11-34 spaces gears out more than all the others for more even steps throughout, where the others tend to put more in the small teeth, either for smaller steps at higher speeds or to keep the chainline straighter?). Calipher brakes, more racy, but I am getting mixed on whether it can ride 28 mm tires (25 mm standard).
Last one I noticed at this LBS is they have Jamis. They have a Jamis Ventura Race. Tiagra, 11-32. Not really much cheaper than the Synapse Tiagra, but a few bucks less.
08-20-19, 06:32 AM
#77
Senior Member
Thread Starter
And to answer your question in a following post, yep, pedals are completely standard, you can buy a set of clipless pedals now, put them on your hybrid, and move them to the road bike when you get it. Or leave them on the hybrid and get another set for the road bike, then your shoes will fit either. I'd personally recommend SPD (not SPD-SL) pedals to start with, because they make "multi-release" ones, there are pedals that clip in on both sides making it easier to get in, there are pedals that take a cleat on one side and a normal shoe on the other, and, finally, it's easier to walk around in SPD shoes and cleats. All of this stuff makes the learning curve a little less steep. But plenty of people have never used them and still done well.
You recommend SPD and seem to have similar reasoning as many of the others I've read. One complaint I've seen is the smaller contact point of the SPD means more "hotspots." I don't tend to find my foot feeling hot, but with my sneakers they can get numb from constantly pushing down on the exact same spot. Is that the same thing, or another problem all together? I've seen suggestions of getting a stiff, carbon fiber soul to help with hotspots with SPD. Is that something I should consider if I go that route, too? Either a really stiff MTB shoe (or touring?) or look for a stiff road shoe that can do both SPD and SPD-SL? Speaking of, if you find a Road shoe that can do SPD and SPD-SL, does the SPD stick out like SPD-SL would? Or is it somehow magically still recessed?
As for use, when I ride it's mostly on the bike. In to work, I go through one light and maybe half a dozen stop signs, most of which aren't busy enough that I have to put my feet down. On my current weekend rides, it's about the same. I have to walk about 4 feet on a dirt path on my way to work and otherwise it's about 4 concrete steps and 30 steps on carpet until I am at my desk and could swap them for sneakers. I say all that because I am curious as to the wear of SPD-SL. I've seen people saying they go through several cleats a year, so I am wondering if they are just walking on them a LOT more than I'd be, or if even that little bit of walking I'd be doing would truly wear them down that fast.
Besides off the bike, are one style typically more comfortable or stable than the other? I've read about power transfer, but I'm pretty sure at my level upgrading the engine would be more meaningful than the pedal (did 14 mph average on my commute last week, did 15 mph today and I still had juice in the tank, so I need to push harder next week). I know right now my bike is a bit jerky (while it's not well use, I have some pretty big jumps in my cassette right in the range I normally ride, like it jumps from 21t to 16t and I usually feel the sudden change) when shifting at times, so my foot slips off the pedal. I'm assuming both types would alleviate that problem? Would the shoes help with the numbness, or again, is that an entirely different problem I need to resolve?
I do notice the SPD clips seem the same as the ones on the spin machines at the gym, so I guess a secondary benefit is if I go SPD and end up getting into spin classes (which none of them work with my schedule, so not likely), I'd be able to use those shoes.
08-20-19, 07:40 AM
#78
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Regarding bike fitting, the shop near me as RETUL fitting for $325. Sounds like it includes a physical, flexibility testing, etc., to figure out your body and how to fit the bike best to you. They also have one for $100 that seems to be a more basic bike fit. My question is, if I do either of those with my existing bike, what will transfer over to a new bike in terms of usefulness, or would I be looking at having to do one or both of them again once I get myself a road bike?
08-20-19, 08:55 AM
#79
Senior Member
I've tried to read a little about the styles. So my one knee is a bit bum (in PT for it), so I should consider something more float? Did I read that correctly?
You recommend SPD and seem to have similar reasoning as many of the others I've read. One complaint I've seen is the smaller contact point of the SPD means more "hotspots." I don't tend to find my foot feeling hot, but with my sneakers they can get numb from constantly pushing down on the exact same spot. Is that the same thing, or another problem all together? I've seen suggestions of getting a stiff, carbon fiber soul to help with hotspots with SPD. Is that something I should consider if I go that route, too? Either a really stiff MTB shoe (or touring?) or look for a stiff road shoe that can do both SPD and SPD-SL? Speaking of, if you find a Road shoe that can do SPD and SPD-SL, does the SPD stick out like SPD-SL would? Or is it somehow magically still recessed?
As for use, when I ride it's mostly on the bike. In to work, I go through one light and maybe half a dozen stop signs, most of which aren't busy enough that I have to put my feet down. On my current weekend rides, it's about the same. I have to walk about 4 feet on a dirt path on my way to work and otherwise it's about 4 concrete steps and 30 steps on carpet until I am at my desk and could swap them for sneakers. I say all that because I am curious as to the wear of SPD-SL. I've seen people saying they go through several cleats a year, so I am wondering if they are just walking on them a LOT more than I'd be, or if even that little bit of walking I'd be doing would truly wear them down that fast.
Besides off the bike, are one style typically more comfortable or stable than the other? I've read about power transfer, but I'm pretty sure at my level upgrading the engine would be more meaningful than the pedal (did 14 mph average on my commute last week, did 15 mph today and I still had juice in the tank, so I need to push harder next week). I know right now my bike is a bit jerky (while it's not well use, I have some pretty big jumps in my cassette right in the range I normally ride, like it jumps from 21t to 16t and I usually feel the sudden change) when shifting at times, so my foot slips off the pedal. I'm assuming both types would alleviate that problem? Would the shoes help with the numbness, or again, is that an entirely different problem I need to resolve?
I do notice the SPD clips seem the same as the ones on the spin machines at the gym, so I guess a secondary benefit is if I go SPD and end up getting into spin classes (which none of them work with my schedule, so not likely), I'd be able to use those shoes.
You recommend SPD and seem to have similar reasoning as many of the others I've read. One complaint I've seen is the smaller contact point of the SPD means more "hotspots." I don't tend to find my foot feeling hot, but with my sneakers they can get numb from constantly pushing down on the exact same spot. Is that the same thing, or another problem all together? I've seen suggestions of getting a stiff, carbon fiber soul to help with hotspots with SPD. Is that something I should consider if I go that route, too? Either a really stiff MTB shoe (or touring?) or look for a stiff road shoe that can do both SPD and SPD-SL? Speaking of, if you find a Road shoe that can do SPD and SPD-SL, does the SPD stick out like SPD-SL would? Or is it somehow magically still recessed?
As for use, when I ride it's mostly on the bike. In to work, I go through one light and maybe half a dozen stop signs, most of which aren't busy enough that I have to put my feet down. On my current weekend rides, it's about the same. I have to walk about 4 feet on a dirt path on my way to work and otherwise it's about 4 concrete steps and 30 steps on carpet until I am at my desk and could swap them for sneakers. I say all that because I am curious as to the wear of SPD-SL. I've seen people saying they go through several cleats a year, so I am wondering if they are just walking on them a LOT more than I'd be, or if even that little bit of walking I'd be doing would truly wear them down that fast.
Besides off the bike, are one style typically more comfortable or stable than the other? I've read about power transfer, but I'm pretty sure at my level upgrading the engine would be more meaningful than the pedal (did 14 mph average on my commute last week, did 15 mph today and I still had juice in the tank, so I need to push harder next week). I know right now my bike is a bit jerky (while it's not well use, I have some pretty big jumps in my cassette right in the range I normally ride, like it jumps from 21t to 16t and I usually feel the sudden change) when shifting at times, so my foot slips off the pedal. I'm assuming both types would alleviate that problem? Would the shoes help with the numbness, or again, is that an entirely different problem I need to resolve?
I do notice the SPD clips seem the same as the ones on the spin machines at the gym, so I guess a secondary benefit is if I go SPD and end up getting into spin classes (which none of them work with my schedule, so not likely), I'd be able to use those shoes.
As for riding SPD on road, that's what I do. Coming from mountain biking years ago, I already had the pedals, cleats, and shoes to start. I've rarely had an issue with hotspots, and if I do, it's usually on longer rides (over 40 miles for me). But from personal experience - make sure your cleats are set up properly for the balls of your feet and your knees. Go for some short rides (less than 10 miles, I'd say) to dial in the fit. I made the mistake of throwing cleats on a new pair of shoes last season and immediately going on a 75mi ride. I repositioned the cleat partway through the ride, but by that point I had already hurt myself - my knee was aching with 20 miles to go. Don't be me!
08-20-19, 10:26 AM
#80
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The smaller SPD platform can cause hot spots, which are nothing to do with heat, just small areas on your foot that can get painful. I got those right after I went to clipless pedals at first, I had bought the cheapest pair of shoes I could, they would flex like paper, and that put a lot of pressure on the part of my foot that contacted the pedal. I got a pair of very stiff shoes, and they went away, because the force was distributed over my entire foot. I changed to road pedals years ago (for a power meter) and with good shoes the comfort level is very similar. I spend a lot more money on cleats now.
08-20-19, 10:27 AM
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08-20-19, 10:29 AM
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08-20-19, 11:04 AM
#83
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08-20-19, 11:13 AM
#84
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If PT means physical the****** (as opposed to personal trainer) see if they do bike fittings. Depending what's wrong with your knee specifically, float could be a good thing, or it could be bad. For some people, having zero float locks them in the correct position, I think that's less common, for most folks more float tends to be better for knee issues, but it's not something you should just follow a rule of thumb about.
The smaller SPD platform can cause hot spots, which are nothing to do with heat, just small areas on your foot that can get painful. I got those right after I went to clipless pedals at first, I had bought the cheapest pair of shoes I could, they would flex like paper, and that put a lot of pressure on the part of my foot that contacted the pedal. I got a pair of very stiff shoes, and they went away, because the force was distributed over my entire foot. I changed to road pedals years ago (for a power meter) and with good shoes the comfort level is very similar. I spend a lot more money on cleats now.
The smaller SPD platform can cause hot spots, which are nothing to do with heat, just small areas on your foot that can get painful. I got those right after I went to clipless pedals at first, I had bought the cheapest pair of shoes I could, they would flex like paper, and that put a lot of pressure on the part of my foot that contacted the pedal. I got a pair of very stiff shoes, and they went away, because the force was distributed over my entire foot. I changed to road pedals years ago (for a power meter) and with good shoes the comfort level is very similar. I spend a lot more money on cleats now.
I am still a bit indecisive. I'd say that I am generally going to be road riding with minimal walking (from the parking lot to my cube, through my garage to my bike, etc.), so the SL sounds like it might be fine, but it sounds like the SPD is less maintenance. It sounds like even if I do go SPD, spend the extra money on a pair of stiff road shoes that can take the SPD (or better, both, in case I want to change my mind down the road without buying new shoes), but it sounds like my options for stiff are more limited with SPD than with SL. I'm still trying to get a sense for, given my use case, how often I'd likely need to replace cleats. My colleague walks about what I think I'd be walking and she says she hasn't replaced hers in something like 7 or 8 years. Says they do need replacing now, though, but that is a lot different than the "replace several times a year" I've seen, which makes me believe their walking in cycling shoe habits are vastly different from what mine would be.
08-20-19, 11:31 AM
#85
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I walk s little as possible in my Keo cleats and get maybe 1,500 miles out of a pair, at $40. I never had to replace SPD cleats.
You probably can't go wrong either way. Talk to your PT about this one.
You probably can't go wrong either way. Talk to your PT about this one.
08-20-19, 12:24 PM
#86
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Thread Starter
I notice on a number of the SPD shoes that they seem to have laces. Is that an issue? Looks like a lot of road shoes have straps instead. I notice for instance my LBS has the shimano XC5s.
If I am in the $150ish range for shoes, is that a reasonable price point to find an SPD style that looks road-like and has a stiff sole? Or are those features something you see at higher price points?
08-20-19, 12:50 PM
#87
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My hard-soled road shoes (that have both 2-bolt drillings for SPD and 3-bolt for everything else) were $100, regular retail price.
08-20-19, 12:57 PM
#88
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08-20-19, 01:55 PM
#89
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I think they're the Shimano RP2 shoes. Hard soled, no lugging on the bottom except for a little bit at the heel, so a little tricky to walk in, especially on something like tile or linoleum.
Fit is more important than anything in this regard - I have wide feet, but narrow heels, and these worked out better than the other option the store had (Giros).
Fit is more important than anything in this regard - I have wide feet, but narrow heels, and these worked out better than the other option the store had (Giros).
08-20-19, 01:55 PM
#90
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Hi - just thought i'd throw this out to you as food for thought. I am going thru PT myself after total knee replacement in May. I am now riding on a Giant Fastroad Advanced bike and love it. It's got a lot of the features others have recommended here ie:, CF, 105 components, tubeless tires and is billed by Giant as a road bike with a flatbar . What I love about this bike is : very comfortable riding position for me, great hand position for me, bike is very quick and lite and rides great !! I also live here in the Northeast and bike 4 - 5 times a week on paved rail trails ( usually about 20 milers) on this bike and couldn't be happier.
08-21-19, 08:13 AM
#91
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Chatted with PT (several). None seemed knowledgeable about cycling shoes, but when I discussed float they seemed to think I'd probably want less float, since my knee already moves more than it should, so something helping to keep me aligned might be in my best interest. I'm thinking maybe find one where I can adjust the float? I think that is a thing?
Thanks. I notice they are fiberglass instead of carbon lined. Do you feel that impacts the stiffness? Have you compared them to a carbon lined shoe to see how they felt? I am also a wide with narrow heels, so I'll look into them.
I think they're the Shimano RP2 shoes. Hard soled, no lugging on the bottom except for a little bit at the heel, so a little tricky to walk in, especially on something like tile or linoleum.
Fit is more important than anything in this regard - I have wide feet, but narrow heels, and these worked out better than the other option the store had (Giros).
Fit is more important than anything in this regard - I have wide feet, but narrow heels, and these worked out better than the other option the store had (Giros).
08-21-19, 08:43 AM
#92
Senior Member
Chatted with PT (several). None seemed knowledgeable about cycling shoes, but when I discussed float they seemed to think I'd probably want less float, since my knee already moves more than it should, so something helping to keep me aligned might be in my best interest. I'm thinking maybe find one where I can adjust the float? I think that is a thing?
Thanks. I notice they are fiberglass instead of carbon lined. Do you feel that impacts the stiffness? Have you compared them to a carbon lined shoe to see how they felt? I am also a wide with narrow heels, so I'll look into them.
Thanks. I notice they are fiberglass instead of carbon lined. Do you feel that impacts the stiffness? Have you compared them to a carbon lined shoe to see how they felt? I am also a wide with narrow heels, so I'll look into them.
08-21-19, 09:15 AM
#93
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With some road cleats, you can buy cleats with more or less float. With Speedplay, you can adjust float.
08-21-19, 09:22 AM
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I have wide feet (giggidy) and Shimano fits me well.
08-22-19, 07:07 PM
#95
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So I checked my inseam. I'm 6'3" with an inseam of 37.25". Most of the sizing charts I've seen don't match that, i.e. the range for 6'3" is a shorter inseam or if I match my inseam it suggests that size for someone 2-3 inches taller than me. I'm guessing, based on that, a shorter TT might be a better fit for me? Anyone else have similar kinds of proportions and if so, what size bike do you ride?
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08-23-19, 07:40 AM
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So I checked my inseam. I'm 6'3" with an inseam of 37.25". Most of the sizing charts I've seen don't match that, i.e. the range for 6'3" is a shorter inseam or if I match my inseam it suggests that size for someone 2-3 inches taller than me. I'm guessing, based on that, a shorter TT might be a better fit for me? Anyone else have similar kinds of proportions and if so, what size bike do you ride?
60cm Domane(posted earlier in the thread) post #36
08-23-19, 11:22 AM
#97
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Edit: I guess something I thought of, maybe we both suffer from short torso so the smaller bike let you feel more comfortable in the torso and you just lifted the seat to make up for the shorter seat tube?
Last edited by am0n; 08-23-19 at 11:27 AM.
08-23-19, 11:42 AM
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Awesome! Thanks. What made you choose the 60 cm over say the 62 cm? Only asking because using the sizing charts, "formulas," etc, it suggests I should be around 63 cm C-C seat tube. I am curious what urged you to go lower. TT length and how spread out you felt? Something else?
Edit: I guess something I thought of, maybe we both suffer from short torso so the smaller bike let you feel more comfortable in the torso and you just lifted the seat to make up for the shorter seat tube?
Edit: I guess something I thought of, maybe we both suffer from short torso so the smaller bike let you feel more comfortable in the torso and you just lifted the seat to make up for the shorter seat tube?
08-23-19, 12:49 PM
#99
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The bars being too high would impact your ability to get as low as you want? Do you already have it as low as you can go on the 60 cm? And the longer TT would stretch you out more than you'd like? Does that force you to put more pressure on your hands or something similar? Just trying to understand the tradeoffs.
08-24-19, 02:41 PM
#100
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Went to LBS today and got some shoes and pedals. Went with SPD. From everything I could gather, the small delta in performance isn't something I should worry about right now. If I get to the point where that becomes important, I'm probably also at the point where investing more money makes sense. I'm not worried about the ridicule of using SPD pedals on a road bike when I end up buying one down the road.
Went with the simple M520 pedal and the 2019 Shimano XC7 which was on sale at my LBS. Stiffer than the cheap road shoes I was looking at, no 3 bolt, but again, if that's where I end up I'll slap the 520s back on my hybrid and just have a pair of shoes for each bike.
Thanks for everyone's help regarding pedals.
P.S. already fell, so I got that out of my system (until the next time!).
Went with the simple M520 pedal and the 2019 Shimano XC7 which was on sale at my LBS. Stiffer than the cheap road shoes I was looking at, no 3 bolt, but again, if that's where I end up I'll slap the 520s back on my hybrid and just have a pair of shoes for each bike.
Thanks for everyone's help regarding pedals.
P.S. already fell, so I got that out of my system (until the next time!).