Breaking spokes.
#27
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I confess to have had spoke problems in the past. I currently weigh in at 290 lbs. In the past with rather thin section Super Champion rims, the only way to keep spokes from breaking was using 48 spoke wheels. Now with deeper section rims like the Velocity Dyad, I feel just fine with 40 spokes. I also have some older wheels with fairly deep section rims that seem to be hanging in there with 36 spokes, but I prefer 40 just to be sure.
The deep section rim reduces deflection, which reduces the cyclical loading of the spokes, which eventually causes fatigue failure of the spoke.
The deep section rim reduces deflection, which reduces the cyclical loading of the spokes, which eventually causes fatigue failure of the spoke.
#28
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My wheel survival strategy
I got up to 282lbs and had no trouble with the following rim, spokes, and hub components. I ride every day at least 10 miles but usually more than that. I use Velocity Chukar rims that accommodate up to about 40mm size tires. I use 2mm straight gauge 36 spoke hubs and rims. At my heavier weights I broke spokes on the cassette side of the rear wheel and more especially on 10 speed rear cassettes. I build rear wheels now with 13/14 gauge spokes and have not broken any of these. The spokes always broke at the hub. I have a couple of rear wheels that have straight gauge 2mm spokes that don't seem to break at all. My recumbent has straight gauge 2mm spokes on a 26" wheel and it has never had spoke problems. My problems come with the 700c and 27"x1 1/4" rear wheels. You are on the right track with deep V rims. I believe that 36 hole rims would be fine but it never hurts to have a little extra. Using 13/14 gauge spokes on the cassette side of the rear wheel has solved all my problems from that area. I get the 13/14 gauge spokes from Ebike in San Francisco. Electric bikes put a huge strain on driven wheels and they have solved their problems with heavier rims and spokes. Good luck
#29
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My 10 year old Trek came with 24 spoke rear wheels in a paired pattern. Been riding those wheels ever since and never once broke a spoke. I will admit that as a mid Clyde (260lbs/120 kg range at my peak) I am pretty careful checking, truing, and balancing spoke tension because of reading threads like these. I have always been prepared to swap those out for the big old Vuelta's but now I am more believer in making sure tension is balanced and in the sweet spot of the tension charts.
YMMV
YMMV
#30
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Just had yet another wheel built as I again broke spokes. This time I have a tensiometer. The spokes used are steel, double butted spokes. Measured as ~2.05mm in the center and 2.4mm at the neck (the receipt says 2.0g / 13g - headed black). The tool I used is NOT a parktool, so the KG number likely is off. Spoke 1 says 23 - 88.32kg, but the chart my teniometer came with does not give a number for a 2mm spoke. The rim is a sunrim cr18 and the hub a Sturmey Archer RXL-RD5. I know weight is not the issue as the dutch bike I had for a year and a half before it was stolen never once broke a spoke, even though I hauled larger loads with it.
Last edited by harshbarj; 08-10-19 at 12:40 PM.
#32
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Unknown. The paperwork that came with my tensiometer does not give a number for many of these entries for a 2.0mm spoke. So I'd look more at the range of the numbers rather than the KGF.
As an example that 206KGF is listed as 90KGF on the paperwork.
As an example that 206KGF is listed as 90KGF on the paperwork.
#33
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206KGF way too high on drive side
90KGF way too low on the drive side.
IMO
Generally would build to about 120KGF on the drive side. Maybe less for that hub.
Wouldn't 2.05mm and 2.4mm be 11/12 gauge?
90KGF way too low on the drive side.
IMO
Generally would build to about 120KGF on the drive side. Maybe less for that hub.
Wouldn't 2.05mm and 2.4mm be 11/12 gauge?
Last edited by trailangel; 08-10-19 at 01:12 PM.
#34
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As for gauge, I have no clue. I only deal with spokes in metric and never in gauge.
Last edited by harshbarj; 08-10-19 at 01:27 PM.
#35
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Not to rain on your parade but you should have shelled out the extra for the Park or equivalent tension meter. For what you’ve spent on wheel builds, a quality TM would have been a cheap investment. You’ve already seen a shortfall, but that could be fixed if you have access to a tension meter to calibrate it against.
For what you want to do with your wheels, your spoke tension needs to be up at the high end of what your rim can handle. You want to know with a good degree of confidence that your builder is doing that and that your TM can confirm it. If you can do an inquisitive check with your builder and get them to perhaps show you the tension on the spokes and it’s good, then it just becomes an exercise of going home and checking the tension on those same spokes and recording what your TM reads and sticking with that. Measure the spokes either side of the valve as a good marker.
Dont just blindly adjust tension though, keeping the wheel true means some slight tweaking of those numbers
For what you want to do with your wheels, your spoke tension needs to be up at the high end of what your rim can handle. You want to know with a good degree of confidence that your builder is doing that and that your TM can confirm it. If you can do an inquisitive check with your builder and get them to perhaps show you the tension on the spokes and it’s good, then it just becomes an exercise of going home and checking the tension on those same spokes and recording what your TM reads and sticking with that. Measure the spokes either side of the valve as a good marker.
Dont just blindly adjust tension though, keeping the wheel true means some slight tweaking of those numbers
#36
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I don't have much confidence in this new wheel. The CR18 rim is pretty shallow (read: not stiff). The rim flexes a lot, which fatigues the spokes. It's been a while since I built one, but I don't recall it being particularly true from the factory. That explains some of the varying tension readings. The tension variation spoke to spoke is a lot higher than I allow when building wheels.
#37
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Thread Starter
I don't have much confidence in this new wheel. The CR18 rim is pretty shallow (read: not stiff). The rim flexes a lot, which fatigues the spokes. It's been a while since I built one, but I don't recall it being particularly true from the factory. That explains some of the varying tension readings. The tension variation spoke to spoke is a lot higher than I allow when building wheels.
#38
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Take a look at this wheelset. I just got these in 29" w/ 36 spokes, after getting a set last year in 26" w/ 32 spokes. Rock-solid Ryno-lite rims, with Swiss DT's, and Shimano XT disc-ready hubs (the rims are both disc and V-brake compatible).
They're built right, and the price is right (with their free shipping and 10% coupon, around $170 delivered).
I never heard a single ping or creak out of either set, right out of the box, and they're both straight as an ice-skate blade. I weigh a solid 200#.
I don't think you'll go through a thousand bucks of these in a year !!!!
Sun Rhyno Lite 29er wheel set with Shimano XT disc
They're built right, and the price is right (with their free shipping and 10% coupon, around $170 delivered).
I never heard a single ping or creak out of either set, right out of the box, and they're both straight as an ice-skate blade. I weigh a solid 200#.
I don't think you'll go through a thousand bucks of these in a year !!!!
Sun Rhyno Lite 29er wheel set with Shimano XT disc
#39
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Neither do I. The spokes have quite a bend coming out of the nipple. All the pre-built wheels I have the spokes are straight. All I need is for it to last 2-3 paychecks, which has been my average between rebuilds so far. I just don't think my local wheel builders know how to actually build wheels (outside of racing wheels). This is now my fifth store and the results are the same. At this point I have run out of bikeshops in a reasonable distance.
My road wheels were built by Prowheelbuilder over there in the US back when our $$ was doing well. They’ve only needed an adjustment after about 200km but they’ve been true for thousands of km since. Maybe contact them or some other similar company. They seem to know what they’re doing
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I have two sets of these, and they're both as straight as straight gets, and right out of the box have never made a creak or 'ping' .
#41
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Personally, if you have the bucks, Alpine III are the way to go spoke wise. Nice big head end to reduce forces on the hub, a thin middle for some stretch,especially on the NDS and a 2mm thread so standard nipples fit. I've built with Sapim Strong spokes before and getting the tension right on the NDS is nearly impossible without stupid tensions on the DS because they just don't stretch enough to stay tight.
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#42
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"......all of our wheels are 100% built in house by hand, checked and rechecked for proper spoke tension and wheel trueness. our attention to detail during the build process, from start to finish, makes our wheels superior to any other wheels available. we do little things that make a lasting difference, like seating spoke heads against the hub flanges with our own proprietary tools, so that spoke tension doesn’t dramatically change as soon as you put weight on your new wheels the first time you try them out. we stress relieve the spokes multiple times, to help the spokes seat properly against one another and the hub flanges......."
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This thread, totally right
Honestly, straight gauge x36 should be fine for road/gravel riding under 300lbs if built properly. Most wheel problems are caused by small mechanics making wheels for a rider in their image. This is why a lot of us build our own wheels. Double butted spokes are better, but a lot of people here go for the most expensive bombproof wheel after failures without trying a different builder.
#44
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I broke spokes in my rear wheel a couple years ago, replaced them and everything seemed to go well up until recently. I noticed my rear wheel started going out of true. Began to true it up only to be surprised to find that some of my spokes were fairly loose for some reason. Tightened them up while truing the wheel and now keeping my fingers crossed. Not sure why they got loose.
#45
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As expected. Broke a spoke at the nipple today while on the way to work. I was really hoping it would last a month. I just have to ride it as is as I don't have the money for another rebuild and won't for another month. This is simply ridiculous.
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I would say that something just isn't right in regards to your spoke tension. I'd take it to a bike shop and see if they could properly tension the spokes for you. Hopefully that wouldn't cost too much, certainly less than a total rebuild.
#47
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Setting the outside spokes after the wheel is built is not a good idea if you don't know what you are doing. The forming of the spoke around the hub is going to effectively lengthen the spoke resulting in a decrease in tension. Ideally, the spoke should be formed to the hub while the wheel is in low tension but doing it later will result in the need to retention the wheel.
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#48
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I broke spokes in my rear wheel a couple years ago, replaced them and everything seemed to go well up until recently. I noticed my rear wheel started going out of true. Began to true it up only to be surprised to find that some of my spokes were fairly loose for some reason. Tightened them up while truing the wheel and now keeping my fingers crossed. Not sure why they got loose.
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Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
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Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
#49
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What's in your collection of "lightly used" hubs and rims? The next build might be relatively inexpensive.
#50
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I should have posted photos as this wheel also had spokes that took a sharp bend out of the nipple. The rims I am looking at have staggered spoke holes so hopefully they will be pointing in the direction they need to be.