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CampagnoloóOptions for Lower Gearing

Old 08-21-19, 05:15 PM
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muraii
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CampagnoloóOptions for Lower Gearing

Hello!

i have the same SOMA + Campagnolo setup Iíve posted about before. 10-speed with Record shifters, crank, chainrings, and rear derailleur and Chorus front derailleur. Iím running a conventional 53/39 (I think) and an 11-25 in back.

Iím not a racer nor interested in becoming one. Iím slowly gaining strength but still spend 80% or more of my rides in the small chainring. Thatís due partially to ride type, and thatís mostly commuting and casual rides, but Iím most interested in touring so Iíll tend to be carrying some weight and be in those lower gears anyway.

Iím finding my options to affordably move to something with gear ratios more appropriate for my riding. Having roughly 35 gear-inches at the low end of my range is not giving me lots of room for any climbing of note.

There are rumored to be Campy-compatible chainrings but beyond Wick Werksí ultrawide 53/34 they donít make any, and thereís a dearth of other options Iíve been able to find.

So Iím left with some options:

- Leave the bike as-is. Itís fine.
- Buy a whole new drivetrain that fits what I want.
- Hope to find a compatible 10-speed cassette like 12-34 or something.
- Hope to find a compatible chainring set. The Chorus 48/32 is for 12-speed drivetrains I think, and honestly wouldn't seem to help much by itself.
- Buy a new bike.

What am I missing?
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Old 08-21-19, 05:56 PM
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...I don't understand which chain rings you're talking about on your current crank. Look here to see what you need to specifically mention in your thread to get better suggestions. Usually the answer is smaller chain rings, but I can't say for certain without better initial information. "A 10 speed Record crank" doesn't tell me enough. Maybe I'm just poorly informed.
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Old 08-21-19, 06:44 PM
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Recent (within the past 15 years or so) Campy double cranks have a 135 mm bolt circle so a 39T is the smallest chainring that will fit. The relatively rare Chorus and Record triple cranks had a separate 74 mm granny bolt circle that would take down to a 24T chainring.

Campy did make a 13x29 10-speed cassette that would be a big improvement over your 11x25.
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Old 08-21-19, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by 3alarmer View Post
...I don't understand which chain rings you're talking about on your current crank. Look here to see what you need to specifically mention in your thread to get better suggestions. Usually the answer is smaller chain rings, but I can't say for certain without better initial information. "A 10 speed Record crank" doesn't tell me enough. Maybe I'm just poorly informed.
Thanks. I assumed defining it as a 53/39 10-speed Campagnolo chainring setup would suffice. It's an alloy Campy Record EPS C10 10-speed crankset with (so far as I can measure) a 135mm BCD. I would guess circa 2007-9, which I know presents some difficulty given 2008 saw some changes in the lineup, but I unfortunately don't have more information than that. I bought the bike as-is when I was far more ignorant and did not check specifications. I have a 53t combined with a 39t chainring. Here is a picture of the bike with little having materially changed.



I was definitely thinking of a smaller chainring but wasn't sure on compatibility and the preponderance of coverage online discusses how incompatible Campagnolo makes their drivetrains.

Thoughts?
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Old 08-21-19, 08:33 PM
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My standard drivetrain is a Chorus 10 with a 12-23 cassette and a 50/39 crankset (replaced the standard 53 with a TA 50). I swap in a 13/29 cassette if I know I’m going to be doing a particularly hilly ride. While I can get away with 39/23 as my lowest gear for everyday riding, I’d like to extend my low end a bit. If you want to maintain the silver crankset look and maintain an all-Campagnolo drivetrain, you can still find NOS aluminum Athena or Veloce 10sp 50/34 cranksets on eBay. Otherwise, an 11sp crankset will also get you a 34 small ring (the downside being that the current 4-arm Campagnolo cranks are butt-ugly). Combine this with a 13/29 cassette should significantly extend your low end. The only problem is that this setup will likely exceed the chain wrap capacity of your standard cage RD - you’ll need a medium-cage RD, if you don’t already have one. Also out there as eBay NOS.

So, if you want to maintain 10sp and get as low as 34/29 (~32 g.i.), you’ll need a cassette, crankset, RD and maybe a new chain to match the cassette. Or you could go 11sp to get an 11/32 or 12/32 cassette (~29 g.i.), but you’ll then need shifters, RD, crankset, chain and cassette (and maybe an FD also). Either approach will give you a significantly lower low end (by my calculation, your current 39/25 low gear gets you 42 g.i., not 35)

Me, I’ll probably pick up an NOS 10sp compact crankset and swap it in some time in the next year or so. That’ll extend my low end sufficiently for everyday, and I’ll still be able to access a 34/29 low gear for hilly routes.

Last edited by Litespud; 08-21-19 at 08:45 PM.
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Old 08-21-19, 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted by muraii View Post
Thanks. I assumed defining it as a 53/39 10-speed Campagnolo chainring setup would suffice. It's an alloy Campy Record EPS C10 10-speed crankset with (so far as I can measure) a 135mm BCD. I would guess circa 2007-9, which I know presents some difficulty given 2008 saw some changes in the lineup, but I unfortunately don't have more information than that. I bought the bike as-is when I was far more ignorant and did not check specifications. I have a 53t combined with a 39t chainring. Here is a picture of the bike with little having materially changed.



I was definitely thinking of a smaller chainring but wasn't sure on compatibility and the preponderance of coverage online discusses how incompatible Campagnolo makes their drivetrains.

Thoughts?
...that sort of chain ring is pretty adaptable, but you have to make certain the teeth are cut narrow enough to fit a 10 speed chain width, and that the spacing you end up with won't drop the chain between the rings.

Most people are happy enough dropping down to a 50 tooth big ring, which ought to make a workable combination with your current small ring. Maybe someone else can tell you what your options are for a cogset. I don't have anything here that I ride or work on that has more cogs than an 8 in the back. As you are doubtless aware by now, nothing Campagnolo is cheap. I try to stay mostly with Shimano and 130 bcd cranks and rrings for that reason when I'm doing gearing experiments. You can look on e-bay for used chain rings that might work, but it can be hard to judge wear on a modern 10 speed ring from a photograph.

I have, on occcasion, found 135 bcd chainrings at the local bike co-op, but it's pretty infrequent.

But a hunnert bucks for that 50 tooth ring is probably easier and cheaper than changing out everything, and might be worth trying.
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Old 08-21-19, 09:56 PM
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If you can find a Campy triple crankset with the 74 BCD, grab it. Triples are a very sweet, if not very popular answer to getting the lows you need and still having gears that are a joy the rest of the time.

I haven't run a Campy triple. (My venture to Campy cranksets is limited to one set.) I have run TA, many Suginos, SRs and Specialized, uisng gears like 52-42-28 X 13-19 (when I was young and dumb), X 13-28 now on one bike and 50-38-24 X 12-23 to 28 Campy 9-speed on another bike. When I set up that 9-speed, I bought 3 cassettes and outer cogs in 12, 13 and 14. I can mix and match hearly any combo between 12 and 28 teeth. I'm guessing you could do much of the came running 10-speed though I have not looked into it. There also might well be other companies making Campy compatible cogs. (Maybe Mavic or Miche?)

I suspect Sugino makes compatible 10-speed triple cranksets. You might have to change out the BB also. Shimanos would also work if they ever "lowered" themselves to make a triple.

Ben
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Old 08-21-19, 10:08 PM
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Originally Posted by 3alarmer View Post
...that sort of chain ring is pretty adaptable, but you have to make certain the teeth are cut narrow enough to fit a 10 speed chain width, and that the spacing you end up with won't drop the chain between the rings.

Most people are happy enough dropping down to a 50 tooth big ring, which ought to make a workable combination with your current small ring. Maybe someone else can tell you what your options are for a cogset. I don't have anything here that I ride or work on that has more cogs than an 8 in the back. As you are doubtless aware by now, nothing Campagnolo is cheap. I try to stay mostly with Shimano and 130 bcd cranks and rrings for that reason when I'm doing gearing experiments. You can look on e-bay for used chain rings that might work, but it can be hard to judge wear on a modern 10 speed ring from a photograph.

I have, on occcasion, found 135 bcd chainrings at the local bike co-op, but it's pretty infrequent.

But a hunnert bucks for that 50 tooth ring is probably easier and cheaper than changing out everything, and might be worth trying.
The problem is that switching to a 50 isnít going to help his climbing - he needs to extend his low gearing, and that means either a smaller small ring (not possible with his current 135 BCD crank) or bigger rear sprockets. A 13/29 cassette is the quickest option to extend the low end. Campagnolo 10sp standard-cage cassettes have a chain-wrap capacity of 27 teeth, so he could use a 13/29 10sp cassette with a standard RD if he switched to a 50t big ring.
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Old 08-21-19, 10:11 PM
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Lotta help here. Thanks. I think I might look for a triple with the 74mm ring.
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Old 08-21-19, 10:41 PM
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Be aware that a triple crankset will require a different front derailleur and possible a different rear derailleur with a mid length or long cage, so figure that into the budget.
Campagnolo also made several flavors of square taper compact doubles, which would get you a 34 small ring, and help alot. They can be run with a standard double front derailleur.
The compacts pop up on Ebay occasionally, be prepared to jump on one if you find it.
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Old 08-21-19, 11:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Litespud View Post
The problem is that switching to a 50 isnít going to help his climbing - he needs to extend his low gearing, and that means either a smaller small ring (not possible with his current 135 BCD crank) or bigger rear sprockets. A 13/29 cassette is the quickest option to extend the low end. Campagnolo 10sp standard-cage cassettes have a chain-wrap capacity of 27 teeth, so he could use a 13/29 10sp cassette with a standard RD if he switched to a 50t big ring.
Yeah I'm really focused on climbing/loaded gearing. It's aspirational, but still, I'm using the lower half of my current gear range almost all the time.

Originally Posted by nesteel View Post
Be aware that a triple crankset will require a different front derailleur and possible a different rear derailleur with a mid length or long cage, so figure that into the budget.
I came back to ask, and assumed that my current 2x FD wouldn't have enough throw to take the wider chainring set. Thank you for confirming.
Originally Posted by nesteel View Post
Campagnolo also made several flavors of square taper compact doubles, which would get you a 34 small ring, and help alot. They can be run with a standard double front derailleur.
The compacts pop up on Ebay occasionally, be prepared to jump on one if you find it.
That sounds pretty great. I started out hoping I could get a bit lower but maybe a 50/34 with the 13-29 cassette, if doable, would smooth out the range I'm looking for without costing an arm and a leg.
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Old 08-21-19, 11:07 PM
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One point of clarification: since my stuff is circa 2008-ish, I'm probably going to want to stay in that vintage, yeah? So, for instance, a new/newer Veloce 50/34 compact 10s crankset is unlikely to work with my older drivetrain, I assume.
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Old 08-21-19, 11:22 PM
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Originally Posted by muraii View Post
One point of clarification: since my stuff is circa 2008-ish, I'm probably going to want to stay in that vintage, yeah? So, for instance, a new/newer Veloce 50/34 compact 10s crankset is unlikely to work with my older drivetrain, I assume.
You'd be fine with a newer 10 speed compact. 10=10.
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Old 08-21-19, 11:29 PM
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Originally Posted by muraii View Post
One point of clarification: since my stuff is circa 2008-ish, I'm probably going to want to stay in that vintage, yeah? So, for instance, a new/newer Veloce 50/34 compact 10s crankset is unlikely to work with my older drivetrain, I assume.
...generally, a 10 speed compact crank will work with a 10 speed chain and a 10 speed rear sprocket...no matter the vintage. But it will probably look kind of fugly, and you'll might need to re-position the front derailleur a skosh. Again, the main things to worry about are the Campi-ness of the pull ratio between shifter/brifter and the derailleur, and the width of the teeth to mesh with the chain.

I've not tried that combination personally, but see no reason it would not work in theory.
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Old 08-22-19, 12:29 AM
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I'd swap to a modern 50/34 compact crank first, or even a 48/32 or 46/30 if you don't mind losing some top end. 53/11 is silly in most cases (except actual competitive sprinting and maybe some time trials). You can use any 10 or 11 speed crank and it'll work fine--it doesn't need to be Campy, although it certainly can be. IRD Defiant or a Velo Orange crankset would match well cosmetically if you want subcompact, or just get a current Centaur.

If that's not enough try a larger cassette. I'm not sure about spec on that derailleur, but it probably is only designed for about a maximum of a 28t--maybe as much as 30t is doable.
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Old 08-22-19, 02:14 AM
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You can keep an eye out for Record 110BCD cranksets.

However, something like this would work quite nicely on your bike:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Campagn...4/233314100418

It'll bump up on price a bit ($50 to $100)?
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Old 08-22-19, 06:41 AM
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Originally Posted by nesteel View Post
You'd be fine with a newer 10 speed compact. 10=10.
Great to know!

Originally Posted by cpach View Post
I'd swap to a modern 50/34 compact crank first, or even a 48/32 or 46/30 if you don't mind losing some top end. 53/11 is silly in most cases (except actual competitive sprinting and maybe some time trials). You can use any 10 or 11 speed crank and it'll work fine--it doesn't need to be Campy, although it certainly can be. IRD Defiant or a Velo Orange crankset would match well cosmetically if you want subcompact, or just get a current Centaur.
I don't mind losing some top end at all. I'll have the current crankset on-hand if I get to the point where things are too easy. My FD would work with a Centaur or Veloce, but can the same be said for the IRD Defiant (which I'd actually already started looking at)?

Originally Posted by cpach View Post
If that's not enough try a larger cassette. I'm not sure about spec on that derailleur, but it probably is only designed for about a maximum of a 28t--maybe as much as 30t is doable.
Yeah I probably don't want to try pushing my short-cage RD, especially if I can get what I need out of the crankset.

Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
You can keep an eye out for Record 110BCD cranksets.

However, something like this would work quite nicely on your bike:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Campagn...4/233314100418

It'll bump up on price a bit ($50 to $100)?
I've actually been watching that precise one.

Thanks everyone. This is really helpful.
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Old 08-22-19, 06:52 AM
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I've nothing against triples, but a new FD, shifter, and probably BB (spindle length), it's a hassle.

I'd go with a 13-28t cassette first, and see if that doesn't get you what you want.
If it doesn't, then a 50-34t compact crankset. You may need a new BB, but so be it.
If that still doesn't get you enough gearing (which would be surprising), then a medium or long-cage RD w/a wider range cassette.
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Old 08-22-19, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by muraii View Post
Great to know!



I don't mind losing some top end at all. I'll have the current crankset on-hand if I get to the point where things are too easy. My FD would work with a Centaur or Veloce, but can the same be said for the IRD Defiant (which I'd actually already started looking at)?
Your front derailleur will shift most anything within reason. Historically the same FDs have been used for 55t timetrial setups to 44t cyclocross setups with reasonable success. Yours has a cage that will probably shift the original 53t best, but shifting a 48 or a 46t big ring will be fine. IRD defiant is really nice and a reasonable option.
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Old 08-22-19, 09:09 AM
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Campagnolo makes a 12 30 10 speed cassette
https://www.wiggle.com/campagnolo-ce...2-30-cassette/
I currently use a 12 29 10 speed cassette with my Chorus 10 speed setup, the extra tooth of the 12 30 should work as well
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Old 08-22-19, 09:29 AM
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IRD also makes 12-32 10 speed cassette. You may need a mid to long rear derailleur to use a 32 sprocket though

10-Speed Elite Road Cassette (Campy-Compatible) ? Interloc Racing Design / IRD

I probably would use both compact crank-set 50/34 and wider rear cassette
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Old 08-22-19, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney View Post
Shimanos would also work if they ever "lowered" themselves to make a triple.
Shimano used to make a wide range of triple road crank models up to at least Ultegra and up to 10-speed. I have Shimano FC-5703 cranks on two bikes and Tiagra FC-4603 on two others. It's only since 11-speed that Shimano triples disappeared.
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Old 08-22-19, 07:01 PM
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Interloc Racing Design makes Campagnolo compatible 10 Speed cassettes. I have 46/34 front on one of my bikes and a 12-32 back. Should be able to use one of these cassettes with 50/34 chainrings. If you need a longer hanger because the RD cage is hitting the 32, then Wolf Tooth Road Link might be the solution.
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Old 08-22-19, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by muraii View Post
Hello!

- Leave the bike as-is. It’s fine.
- Buy a whole new drivetrain that fits what I want.
- Hope to find a compatible 10-speed cassette like 12-34 or something.
- Hope to find a compatible chainring set. The Chorus 48/32 is for 12-speed drivetrains I think, and honestly wouldn't seem to help much by itself.
The 135mm BCD won't support anything smaller than a 39.

What am I missing?
Campagnolo sells a 13-14-15-16-17-19-21-23-26-29 cassette with tighter spacing on the small cogs than your 11-12-13-14-15-17-19-21-23-25. 52x13 was a large enough big gear for Eddy Merckx to dominate the grand tours, and you're not Eddy.

You can also get a 12-13-14-15-17-19-21-24-27-30

Officially, the short cage derailleur was for doubles with all cogs except 13-29 (and later 12-30), medium doubles with all cogs plus triples except 13-29, and long anything (it's really long). You may or may not need a medium.

Your left shifter will also run a triple front derailleur. 30x25 is like 39x32. A 74mm BCD inner position will take rings down to 24T, 39 to 26T isn't a big jump, and 26x25 is like 39x41 or 32x31. I'd do that, especially if I was already swapping the crank for a lower gear and rear derailleur for more wrap.

For early 10 speed with alloy cranks, you can even find period correct Record triple cranks with the hidden fifth arm bolt.

Last edited by Drew Eckhardt; 08-24-19 at 04:09 PM.
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Old 08-22-19, 10:03 PM
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edwardk
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Youíve gotten a lot of good suggestions already, but I should mention that Iíve had very good luck lowering my gearing using FSAís supercompact 46x30 cranks on both a Campy 11 speed setup and a Campy 12 speed bike. I would think that it would work on a Campy 10 speed bike as well.

Edward
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