Originally Posted by cradduck

keep $100 at the ready. that way you can go 180 miles as long as your getting more than 18mpg overall. The read "The Road" by Cormac McCarthy when you where you need to go...now THAT senerio would suck.

Originally Posted by EvilV

18 MPG!!!

I'll sell you my diesel Skoda Fabia. I get 55mpg in stop start urban driving and can easily get 65 - 68 mpg at 70 mph on the motorway.

Next to my bike, it is one of the most efficient forms of transport there is. I can also get my Merc in the back without fully folding it and without putting the rear seats down. If I put the rear seats down it will take two mountain bikes inside - one on top of the other. I put a bit of spare stair carpet between them to stop scuffing.

Originally Posted by wahoonc

I believe the OP is in the US so 18mpg would be about average for most of the readily available cars...

Aaron

Originally Posted by brakemeister

Downtubes are licensed Dahon technology
or actually made by Dahon and rebranded with some older
Dahon technology, I believe.

written by Keith above .....

That is not true. Downtubes are not made by Dahon. Not even branded or licensed or anything .Nothing to do with each other

Thanks Thor

Originally Posted by bookishboy

Neat topic. I was considering starting a similar thread, but wanted to
spend more time thinking about it first.

The thread topic reminds me of the book "Parable of the Sower", which I
mentioned
here.
In this book, the "near-future" scenario isn't related so much to Peak
Oil production, but rather to widespread climate changes that make it
harder to grow food, or find clean water. It just doesn't rain much
anymore. Here are some of the highlights of society's collapse, at
least in this imagining:

-Drug abuse is rampant.
-So is unemployment
-So is homelessness
-The divide between the poor and middle class becomes much more
apparent. Those who still have jobs, who still own property and can
continue to pay taxes on it, tend to band together and build walls
around their clusters of houses, separating them from the poverty and
lawlessness outside.
-People who have houses don't go outside their walls very much, and only
in groups when they have to. Clean clothing and shoes attract unwanted
attention from the people Outside, and may get you robbed or worse.
-Everything costs more money, especially things that used to be taken
for granted, like agricultural products and clean water. This leads
many landowners to adopt a micro-suburban-agragrian way of living,
growing gardens, making acorn flour, etc etc.
-Everything is also in shorter supply, except seemingly for weapons.
Firearms are prevalent, even among the homeless. Everyone scrabbles for
what they have, and have to defend it themselves.
-Most folks walk places. Those who can afford them, use bikes, either
pedal- or electric-powered. Automobiles are still around, but only
corporations or the rich can afford to feed them with gasoline, or
afford the upkeep of them.
-Much of the economy becomes grey-market, black-market, or underground.
Trade becomes as common as cash payments. People use things for as long
as possible, and hand them down to others to re-use. This may be
another reason why bicycles are so common, while cars are not.

In the next post, I'll put my thoughts on what sort of bike I'd look to have/build.

Originally Posted by bookishboy

Ok, so here are some of the thoughts I was having on the subject, and
what sort of bicycle would be ideal for this scenario. Society is
shifting, perhaps collapsing, but it's not Road Warrior quite yet. Roads still exist, though cars are much more sparse and they don't get repaired as regularly. Police are still around, but generally only investigate when people bribe them to. Most folks don't trust the police enough to want them involved when someone gets robbed, or *****, or worse. These are some features I'd look for on a bike, and the reasons why:

-Steel, for durability and affordability. I like the idea of titanium, but unless the cost of titanium comes down dramatically in the next few years, it'd be cost-prohibitive, especially if buying bikes/parts in quantity. More on this below.

-Powdercoat finish, black. I don't know if it's possible to have a dull powdercoat finish (instead of "shiny"), but if not, I'd look into the possibility of having a two-coat finish on the bike.... one to protect the bike from rust as much as possible, and the other to cover up the bike and ugli-fy it... make it as unremarkable and nondescript as possible. All polished or chromed surfaces would also be painted or covered to take the shine off them and reduce notice.

-Folding frame, with telescoping seatpost and headset, and adjustable/reversable stem. The bike will fit into compact spaces. Something as valuable as a bike would be a high theft target if left outside, and many people will be living in smaller spaces than today. A folding bike would be able to crowd into a house, an apartment, a garage, even a rented room. Most folks would go out in groups, for safety, and if someone were attacked or injured, or their bike damaged, it could be carried back in a trailer (more below) while the injured were carried in another trailer. It could be carried back (hopefully) in an ambulence next to the injured, if paramedics were still available and responded to calls. It would use smaller wheels (more below), have a low stepover height, and be able to accommodate a huge range of rider sizes (preteen to tall adult), and riding positions. This bike will be able to fit nearly anyone in the family who is old enough to ride, and re-size in seconds without tools (or very few tools) so that it could change riders even in mid-ride if necessary. Except for the frame-specific folding features, the bike would make use of as many standard parts and accessories as possible. It should not be something that becomes useless when the manufacturer goes out of business or stops supporting a particular model.

-Wheelsize ERTO 406, BMX-standard sized. These tires are used on a huge number of bikes, and would likely be widely available both in the retail, secondary and dumpster/grey-market. Used tires from kids' bikes could be co-opted in a pinch and put onto the bikes. Wheel/tire size is chosen for availability of parts, ride comfort and durability. The tire will be wide enough to operate on- or off-road, small enough that the smaller diameter gives it more strength (for the same spoke-count), but large enough that it doesn't fall into every pothole on the road (there will be more of them than nowadays) or knock the whole bike askew if the front wheel hits a trail-bump.

-NO DERAILLEUR. The bike would at first have an internal hub, something with 8-9 gears. It would be bought with an extra rear wheel built onto a fixed-gear hub, and at a certain point would be switched over to this. The fixed-gear hub would have to accommodate several different sizes of rear sprockets, so that the gear-inches could be tailored to the height/age/fitness of the current rider. The fixed-gear hub would eventually become preferable to the multi-gear internal hub for multiple reasons. As the years go by, parts will become harder to find, more expensive to buy. The simplicity of the machine will become almost obsessively important....fewer moving parts, fewer replacements to find for brake pads, cables, bearings....fewer things that could go wrong and potentially leave the rider stranded uncomfortably far from a safe harbor. One other thing. In a world without cars, the streets would become eerily silent, to a level we're not used to. There would be brief outbursts of sound, someone being attacked or getting into a fight, sometimes gunshots going off.... but the rest of the time there would be fewer and fewer cars, and eventually nearly none at all. The quiet would be something that you'd almost not notice until you went out with your bike one day, and suddenly found that the *tiktiktik* of the pawls in your rear hub sounded un-naturally loud going down the street. Noise would be avoided, because you and your group wouldn't want to call attention to yourselves and your valuables.

-Horizontal dropouts

-A fully-enclosed chaincase, to keep the chain as dirt- and rust-free as possible. I have some ideas in mind on how it'd function, but I'm not a "Maker" so I think I'd trip over myself if I tried explaining it. Basically it'd be adjustable to multiple sizes/angles, so it could still fit the bike if you changed out to a different sized rear cog or went from internal hub to fixie. It'd also need to come off with a quickness, in case of flat tires or wheel maintenance.

-A large saddlebag (Think Berthoud or Rivendell) that detaches easily and doubles as a backpack.

-Demountable rear rack, for larger loads. It would be able to support a large basket, think 2 grocery bags side-by-side in it. The rack comes off when not in use, and can be switched between bikes in seconds. Similar for a front rack, though it'd hold less.

-Demountable fenders. They'd be quick-release, put on when the barometer warns of rain, but can come off when not needed, making the bike lighter/simpler. Also can be switched between bikes in seconds.

-Cables would have quick-releases, and chain would have an easy to use master link.

-Seat would be suspended leather, but could be switched out to a cheap plastic one if parts/cost became an issue further on.
ADDED: Suspended AND sprung leather seat. If the tires have to be switched out for solid rubber tires eventually, the small wheels would be a bit of a discomfort. A sprung seat would be the cheapest, most long-term reliable way to soften the ride.

-When going out in longer group rides, at least 1-2 trailers would be brought along. They's need to be strong enough to carry back firewood, groceries, scavenged supplies, or even an injured ride member.

-This one would have to be factored in, ease-of-use vs. security. I'd prefer anti-theft skewers to be on as many components of the bike as possible. There will be times when the bike will have to be locked up or unattended, and you'd want to have as few parts as possible missing from it when you came back.

-Tires may eventually be switched out for solid rubber tires or Tweels (google it, "tweel segway") in order to deal with lack of replacement parts.

-Quick-release platform pedals with Powergrips on them. Nearly as good as clipless pedals (for people who aren't professional cyclists) at a fraction of the cost, and can be re-sized for different riders. The QR pedals come off whenever the bike is locked up, wich reduces the chances that the bike can be stolen and ridden off. Every bike in the family/group is equipped with the QR pedal adapters, and the pedals can be moved from bike to bike in seconds without tools.

-Here's the kicker, and where steel would gain a distinct cost advantage over titanium. Buy one bike for every member of the family/group, +1. Buy exactly the same model, with exactly the same accessories. One extra fixed-gear wheel for every bike in the group, and half again as many front wheels. A steady supply of brakepads, cables, chains, bearings, grease, spokes. The idea here is that you'll probably be sticking together as a group, and if retail parts availability runs out, you can start cannibalizing wrecked bikes for parts to use on the others. As long as you still have a "safe harbor", a house or garage that you can use as a home-base, try to keep enough tools to be able to fix your own bikes. Not only will you be able to save money on your own repairs, you may be able to parlay your workshop into a source of income or trade.

ADDED:
Lots of people who would even take this thought experiment seriously would consider it from the perspective of "best bike for me".... customized frame, best fit for riding style, most rugged, etc etc. I'm of the opinion that in such a dark future, survival would be best accomplished co-operatively. It'd be a group endeavor. If you're the only one in the group with a bike, the bike would be useless for a good many things you'd have wanted to use it for.... the group on foot would not be able to keep up with you, and by yourself you'd be a too-tempting target for the first resentful homeless person with a gun or a rock in hand. So, you'd want the group to be either all-mounted or none at all (unless you only use the bikes as shopping carts). You'd also want a bike that could best serve the group, rather than best serving yourself; hence the re-sizing ability. It wouldn't be a communist thing, exactly... it'd still be "your bike", but each group member's survival or comfort would be greatly enhanced if you can switch off the bike between members. By having each group/family member use exactly the same bicycle, you'd be increasing the redundancy of needed parts in case the traditional supply chains run out. This bike would also be a form of portable wealth, and much more sale-able if it could fit a wide range of riders. If you needed to pawn it off for other goods, good luck trying to sell a bike that is custom-fit to your body size and riding habits.

Originally Posted by Ziemas

FYI, the OP is a neo-Nazi freak.

https://www.stormfront.org/forum/show...ss-471674.html
https://www.stormfront.org/forum/show...es-396513.html

Originally Posted by 14R

I would love to have a chance to talk to a neo-Nazi freak. I really want to understand how biological anthropology, Human physiology and every other field of real science shows the benefits of diversity and yet they believe somehow that "pure" "race" (a concept that also does not exist) could somehow be superiorin any field. This is not a joke, I really want to see an intelligent person that believes in white power explaining to me their beliefs.

to keep my post on-topic, the black and white image of the military bike seems adequate to the subject. Batman gauntlets still a plus though.

Originally Posted by James H Haury

I am waiting for diesel motorcycles to become available in the U.S. 100 mpg anyone?

Originally Posted by simsles

Diesel motorcycles are, I believe, being considered for military use. The reason is that most military vehicles are diesel, and not only is the fuel safer than petrol, but the motorcyles do not then require a dedicated supply. I don't think that the military are too concerned about mpg.
No problem in getting 100mpg with a motorcycle. In the not so distant past, many lightweight motorcycles
were capable of doing this, and had a perfectly adequate performance.
Like cars, they have, in recent years, become heavier and more powerful, therefore consuming more fuel.
With ever increasing fuel prices, time to turn the clock back.