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Grant Petersen Has Lost It

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Grant Petersen Has Lost It

Old 11-29-18, 09:22 PM
  #26  
Kapusta
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I just read the blog post and It all seems pretty par for the GP course. I donít think your characterization of him is very fair.

Yes, he has string opinions and he is very clear about where he stands, what he likes, and what he sells, but I generally donít find he condemns other for not feeling the same.

I donít think he is particularly anti-ebike, either. He is just expressing the opinion (which I agree with) that they are are motorized, and therefor not really bicycles.

I donít agree with some of GPís views (I love disc, and if I never see another threaded quill stem again it will be too soon), but I always get a lot out of reading what he has to say. I think his appoach to bikes and riding is something that was sorely missing in the industry for a long time.

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Old 11-29-18, 09:52 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by Lazyass View Post
A bicycle is a human powered machine. E-bikes may be cool, they may be fun, bike shops may sell them but they are not bicycles.
I couldnít agree more.
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Old 11-29-18, 10:01 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by radroad View Post
Actually, it's the other way around. You will burn at least twice as many calories on a non motorized bicycle. This means you will have to:

a. eat a lot more food and drink a lot more water. This means that a lot more trucks, ships and planes have to transport a lot more food and water since you are burning far more calories

b. burn more coal for your electricity since you will need to wash twice as many clothes or wash the same clothes twice as often.

In actuality then, ebikes save electricity by reducing food production and transport and save on pollution from washing and drying machines.
This is getting funny.

Winter time is when BF gets really entertaining...wait, it is not even winter yet.
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Old 11-29-18, 10:03 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by exmechanic89 View Post
i agree. I don't need to ride an e-bike to know i don't like what they represent - another way for already overweight and out of shape people to skirt any kind of exercise. I'm all for e-bikes being classified as mopeds, which is essentially what they are.
1001+
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Old 11-29-18, 10:11 PM
  #30  
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Eh, it is easy to hate on things. I tend to ignore the closed minds in all of life, the things that people find to be personally threatened by never cease to astound me.

Originally Posted by badger1 View Post
I do not understand why threads on these motor vehicles have been started here in General Cycling Discussion. There is an "E-bike" sub-forum on BF. That is where this thread belongs.
As with all these comments, there should be no General Discussion at all. Every single thread here could be elsewhere.

I do not understand why people show up to threads they have no interest in to tell others they have no interest and it should go elsewhere so they don't have to see it.

Originally Posted by Reynolds View Post
The only qualitative difference between a bicycle and a motorcycle is that one is propelled by its rider and the other by a motor. So for me e-bikes are motorcycles.
As one who has ridden (but does not own) ebikes, and who owns a motorcycle, no, no they are not motorcycles. Anyone who honestly thinks ebikes are closer to motorcycles than bikes is pushing an agenda

The day I can take an ebike down a limited access interstate (and no, not one of those special bits out west where most traffic is allowed), maybe my stance will change.
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Old 11-29-18, 10:20 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by Reynolds View Post
The only qualitative difference between a bicycle and a motorcycle is that one is propelled by its rider and the other by a motor. So for me e-bikes are motorcycles.
Why so binary? The lower-power ebikes require that you pedal to activate the e-assist. So there is an entire category of ebikes that *combine* human & battery power.
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Old 11-29-18, 10:28 PM
  #32  
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Ironic how a topic about an uneducated critic getting it all wrong, gets flooded with uneducated critics getting it all wrong.
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Old 11-29-18, 11:01 PM
  #33  
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I don't know who this Grant Peterson guy is. I just now read a few paragraphs about him at wiki. That said, it's very simple to understand in my mind who and what he is. He's a purist. And that's that. And there is nothing wrong with that.

I was once a purist. Fly fishing. But man, when the artificial plastic lures hit the market, I changed. I love a plastic lure. That said, I like to pedal a bicycle. And I don't think that I will ever change. No interest in e-bikes. None at all. No Di2 for me. Nope. Geez, if I keep going here, I might be just like Grant Peterson.?? Doesn't matter if I am or not.

I think the OP is fishing for support on his opinion. I'm independent. I'm not biting...
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Old 11-30-18, 12:15 AM
  #34  
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After reading the link...
- the OP is way off base with how he interpreted the article's points and ramblings.
- that was a terribly written post by GP. Just bad. Good lord- work on having a start, middle, and end thst all connect properly before you post to your site for cycling nerds to read. Im not looking for Hemingway, but my 8yo daughter has more connected thoughts than what was in GP's posting.
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Old 11-30-18, 12:31 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by tihabanero View Post
peterson is simply stating that ebikes should be categorized as mopeds as they have a motor, just like gasoline powered mopeds do. Motor+pedals= moped. I don't think he is nuts at all. I'd say he is likely ahead of the curve, again.
+1

Like


I'm sure there's a moped or motorcycle forum around somewhere.

Last edited by Machka; 11-30-18 at 01:49 AM.
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Old 11-30-18, 01:13 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by tyrion View Post
Not necessarily. Many people power their e-machines through their solar roofs and such.
You including the production and disposal of batteries in your calculation of pollution? And what percentage of ebike riders actually use solar power?
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Old 11-30-18, 01:29 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by radroad View Post
Actually, it's the other way around. You will burn at least twice as many calories on a non motorized bicycle. This means you will have to:

a. eat a lot more food and drink a lot more water. This means that a lot more trucks, ships and planes have to transport a lot more food and water since you are burning far more calories

b. burn more coal for your electricity since you will need to wash twice as many clothes or wash the same clothes twice as often.

In actuality then, ebikes save electricity by reducing food production and transport and save on pollution from washing and drying machines.
The food argument is so stupid because it assumes that more sedentary people eat less. Hate to break it to you, but a lot of them eat a lot and grow obese. As a society, we are clearly eating more and less active than we were in previous generations. There's a strong linear relationship with exercise and calories burned, but not so with calories consumed.

The clothing thing is an argument you could make against any vigorous work out. Seems to me that's a better argument for walking around in sweaty clothes. Also, I wash clothes regularly, my riding clothes just make the load a bit bigger. I doubt there's that much marginal difference in the energy and pollution.
Now let's start talking about the environmental costs of more battery use.
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Old 11-30-18, 02:54 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by TiHabanero View Post
Peterson is simply stating that ebikes should be categorized as mopeds as they have a motor, just like gasoline powered mopeds do. Motor+pedals= Moped. I don't think he is nuts at all. I'd say he is likely ahead of the curve, again.
In the UK they are classified as mopeds above a certain power - I think it's 250W - and you are supposed to wear a motorbike helmet if you ride one. E-bikes have to be below that power and only go when pedaled. Of course, this isn't enforced. I regularly get passed on my commute by someone who does no pedaling at all and wears no helmet.
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Old 11-30-18, 06:32 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by MikeyMK View Post
Ironic how a topic about an uneducated critic getting it all wrong, gets flooded with uneducated critics getting it all wrong.
Don't be so hard on yourself, you're entitled to your opinion as well.
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Old 11-30-18, 07:19 AM
  #40  
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Old 11-30-18, 07:28 AM
  #41  
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Figured it was about time for yet another in an (apparent) series of troll threads as his others fade into obscurity.

yawn..
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Old 11-30-18, 08:17 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by BirdsBikeBinocs View Post
That said, I like to pedal a bicycle. And I don't think that I will ever change. No interest in e-bikes. None at all.
There is a big difference between having no interest in one and advocating they be categorized in a manner that prohibits their use most places traditional bikes are used. I have no use or interest in one, but I certainly do not think they should be registered and one using them be licensed and them kept off rail trails and such.

I have no interest in one, but I certainly don't advocate they be treated as a street-only vehicle until they are operated by a throttle and are capable of speeds higher than a healthy fit cyclist can accomplish unassisted. There is little practical difference to anyone but the rider in the bikes we know of as ebikes and a fit solo cyclist to others around them.
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Old 11-30-18, 09:15 AM
  #43  
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It's a slippery slope with pedal assist e-bikes. They DO have a motor, that's pretty simple. As well there are many aspects to the use of motorized vehicles that go beyond Grant's comments and the thing that worries me the most is the potential that acceptance of a pedal assisted motorized cycle/moped, will start to see their current use on off-pavement trails and rail trails and into area's currently the province of mt. bikes. This is a HUGE problem given that countless mt. bike advocacy groups have worked very hard over the past 30 years to get mt. biking accepted into areas they might have been banned (and still are - Nat'l Park trials as example). Mt. bikers have tried very hard to dissociate themselves from "dirt bikes", ot motorized off road specific motorcycles. Accepting ANY motorized cycle is and as far as the mt. bike hating groups are concerned, the camels nose under the tent, that will eventually see the use of a motorized cycle (yes it has pedals) on trails where they really don't belong. That's going to potentially see trails currently accessible to non-motorized wheeled vehicles, to be be banned altogether for ANY wheeled vehicles.

Mopeds, and that's what they are, belong on roads, not MUT's or any area that specifically ban a motorized wheeled vehicle.
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Old 11-30-18, 09:17 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by Slightspeed View Post
I love my vintage steel bikes, and my carbon bikes. I even love my disc brakes and Di2. I've never been tempted to try an E-bike. I'm 69 years old, and take pride in BEING the motor. I know this thread is not really an E-bike or not thread, but in analyzing the OP's posted article, I'm on board with the E-bike as not a being real bike argument. I'm good with modern advances, as long as YOU are the motor. I've always found Rivendell a little quirky (OK, a lot quirky), but totally refreshing attitude. Several years ago, having completed a Solvang Century, I was watching other riders finish, to applause from the crowd. A guy came in on an Iacocca e-bike (remember them?) and he got booed. I almost felt sorry for him, but not that much.

Now, get off my lawn with your E-bike! 😉
I completely agree Slightspeed, My preference is vintage bicycles, having said that the modern carbon wonderbikes are amazing, I do tend to agree though that e-bikes should not be considered bicycles
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Old 11-30-18, 09:18 AM
  #45  
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GP is way behind the times, and has actually missed the boat , so to speak.
He is in California, and California has already classified ebikes as bicycles.
Specifically, bicycles with a 20 mph limit are class 1 and 2 ebikes and can go anywhere push bikes can go.
Read it and weep.
https://peopleforbikes.org/wp-conten...02132018v2.pdf
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Old 11-30-18, 09:37 AM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by radroad View Post
Actually, it's the other way around. You will burn at least twice as many calories on a non motorized bicycle. This means you will have to:

a. eat a lot more food and drink a lot more water. This means that a lot more trucks, ships and planes have to transport a lot more food and water since you are burning far more calories

b. burn more coal for your electricity since you will need to wash twice as many clothes or wash the same clothes twice as often.

In actuality then, ebikes save electricity by reducing food production and transport and save on pollution from washing and drying machines.
The post that started this thread somewhat reasonable enough, and you raised some issues worth discussing. That's fine. But now you're just trolling, and it seems reasonable to conclude that was your intention all along.
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Old 11-30-18, 09:42 AM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by Steve B. View Post
will start to see their current use on off-pavement trails and rail trails and into area's currently the province of mt. bikes.
That is one argument I agree with on the ebikes, that they should be off limits when it comes to MTB trails. Firstly, from a fragility aspect (the ones by me are closed enough for poor trail conditions that they don't want ripped up, no need to add torquey motors to the mix), and secondly, if you aren't fit enough to ride the trails in the first place, I'd have a hard time believing most people have the dexterity and reflexes to safely navigate them. But, it is a line I feel can easily be policed, just like throttle bikes that gets up into moped speeds.
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Old 11-30-18, 09:49 AM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by Lazyass View Post
A bicycle is a human powered machine. E-bikes may be cool, they may be fun, bike shops may sell them but they are not bicycles.
I might be persuaded to give them a pass so long as you still need to do the majority of the pedaling work. Problems is, that won't last long. People have already begun to hack them and is some cases attain speed up to 40 mph! No pedaling necessary.
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Old 11-30-18, 10:03 AM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by jefnvk View Post
Eh, it is easy to hate on things. I tend to ignore the closed minds in all of life, the things that people find to be personally threatened by never cease to astound me.

I do not understand why people show up to threads they have no interest in to tell others they have no interest and it should go elsewhere so they don't have to see it.
Pearls before swine, my friend. Wasted words of wisdom.

People come here to fight over trivia. people come here to pick fights when there is nothing already here to fight over.

People come here to stir the cesspool. Honesty and tolerance are only impediments.
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Old 11-30-18, 10:05 AM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by MikeyMK View Post
Ironic how a topic about an uneducated critic getting it all wrong, gets flooded with uneducated critics getting it all wrong.
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