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Grant Petersen Has Lost It

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Grant Petersen Has Lost It

Old 11-30-18, 02:46 PM
  #76  
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Originally Posted by trailangel View Post
GP is way behind the times, and has actually missed the boat , so to speak.
He is in California, and California has already classified ebikes as bicycles.
Specifically, bicycles with a 20 mph limit are class 1 and 2 ebikes and can go anywhere push bikes can go.
Read it and weep.
https://peopleforbikes.org/wp-conten...02132018v2.pdf
Nope.

That's simply not true.

Class 1 and 2 ebikes are banned on many trails in California, including many trails right around GP's home base. All of those same trails are legal on real bikes.

So no, bicycles with a 20 mph limit are class 1 and 2 ebikes and can't go anywhere push bikes can go.
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Old 11-30-18, 02:59 PM
  #77  
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Goes pretty fast, looks fun. I'd like to try one. I like and own sport bikes, too. If I was worth millions I might buy one on a whim. But it's a 41 pound motorized vehicle with cranks and pedals like old Harley's, not a bicycle. I'm waiting for the day when I start seeing people go on 100K and 100 mile charity rides with them, and finishing way before everyone else of course. That won't be cool.

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Old 11-30-18, 03:17 PM
  #78  
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41 lbs is a bit of a joke. Try 11.3 kg (24.9 lbs) or 11.9 kg (26.2 lbs). Neither e-bike has a throttle. The Orbea only offers assist up to 15 mph, suggesting the motor is only there to assist with climbing. Get out on the flats, you are on your own. :-)



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Old 11-30-18, 03:18 PM
  #79  
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Originally Posted by Lazyass View Post
Goes pretty fast, looks fun. I'd like to try one. I like and own sport bikes, too. If I was worth millions I might buy one on a whim. But it's a 41 pound motorized vehicle with cranks and pedals like old Harley's, not a bicycle. I'm waiting for the day when I start seeing people go on 100K and 100 mile charity rides with them, and finishing way before everyone else of course. That won't be cool.

Clipless pedals on a eBike

Between the pedals, the motor, and the racer-wannabe geo, this would be GF's personal hell.

The kickstand is pure class.
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Old 11-30-18, 03:20 PM
  #80  
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Originally Posted by radroad View Post
The Orbea only offers assist up to 15 mph, suggesting the motor is only there to assist with climbing.
That's the wussification of society personified.
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Old 11-30-18, 03:22 PM
  #81  
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This thread will be hilarious in 5-10 years when everyone posting here has a stable of e-bikes. :-)
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Old 11-30-18, 03:23 PM
  #82  
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Originally Posted by ogmtb View Post
Nope.

That's simply not true.

Class 1 and 2 ebikes are banned on many trails in California, including many trails right around GP's home base. All of those same trails are legal on real bikes.

So no, bicycles with a 20 mph limit are class 1 and 2 ebikes and can't go anywhere push bikes can go.
If it's a fire road where motor vehicles are driven, Class 1 ebike is allow.
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Old 11-30-18, 03:26 PM
  #83  
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Originally Posted by radroad View Post
This thread will be hilarious in 5-10 years when everyone posting here has a stable of e-bikes. :-)
You mean when the new generation who learned about toxic masculinity in school has them and lectures their elders on the greatness of them. I can see if someone gets one of those fancy ones because they want to go fast for fun, that would be cool I guess, but to get one to "assist with climbing" is like giving up your manhood.
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Old 11-30-18, 03:27 PM
  #84  
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Originally Posted by trailangel View Post
If it's a fire road where motor vehicles are driven, Class 1 ebike is allow.
That is quite different than your erroneous claim that "Specifically, bicycles with a 20 mph limit are class 1 and 2 ebikes and can go anywhere push bikes can go."anywhere

adverb
any·​where | \-ˌ(h)wer, -(h)wər\Definition of anywhere

(Entry 1 of 2)

1: at, in, or to any place or point

(Entry 2 of 2)

: any place

_____________

Additionally, there are many fire roads in California where motor vehicles are driven, but ebikes are banned. For example, motor vehicles are driven on fire roads in the East Bay Regional Parks District, bicycles are legal on those fire roads, and ebikes are banned.
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Old 11-30-18, 03:41 PM
  #85  
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Originally Posted by trailangel View Post
GP is way behind the times, and has actually missed the boat , so to speak.
He is in California, and California has already classified ebikes as bicycles.
Specifically, bicycles with a 20 mph limit are class 1 and 2 ebikes and can go anywhere push bikes can go.
Read it and weep.
https://peopleforbikes.org/wp-conten...02132018v2.pdf
You realize that people for bikes groups is paid by bike makers to gain e bike access.
CA is the test case. lots of loopholes and local rules, as subject to local enforcement.
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Old 11-30-18, 04:56 PM
  #86  
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Originally Posted by Reynolds View Post
There are 2 types of people: binary and non-binary.
there are 10 types of people... 0 and 1
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Old 11-30-18, 05:30 PM
  #87  
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Originally Posted by radroad View Post
Actually, it's the other way around. You will burn at least twice as many calories on a non motorized bicycle. This means you will have to:

a. eat a lot more food and drink a lot more water. This means that a lot more trucks, ships and planes have to transport a lot more food and water since you are burning far more calories

b. burn more coal for your electricity since you will need to wash twice as many clothes or wash the same clothes twice as often.

In actuality then, ebikes save electricity by reducing food production and transport and save on pollution from washing and drying machines.
This can't be serious...I hope you're joking.
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Old 12-01-18, 02:18 AM
  #88  
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Originally Posted by 5teve View Post
God I'm sick of hearing about E-bikes! If you want one or need one, for heaven's sake just buy it and ride it where it's allowed. QUIT trying to convince us that it's just like a bicycle. Bicycles are human powered--IT'S IN THEIR VERY DEFINITION! Quit insulting us because we don't accept that they are bicycles, quit assuming we're elitists or have an agenda (lol-like ebike advocates don't have one?) or that we're purists or whatever. They're one thing, bicycles are another thing. FACT!

I've been a fan of Grant's for over 20 years. I've been a fan of ebikes never. I don't give a crap about ebikes, and I'm so sick of hearing about them!


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Old 12-01-18, 03:47 AM
  #89  
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Originally Posted by Lazyass View Post
Goes pretty fast, looks fun. I'd like to try one. I like and own sport bikes, too. If I was worth millions I might buy one on a whim. But it's a 41 pound motorized vehicle with cranks and pedals like old Harley's, not a bicycle. I'm waiting for the day when I start seeing people go on 100K and 100 mile charity rides with them, and finishing way before everyone else of course. That won't be cool.

Oh, look. He has a kickstand.

(so do I)
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Old 12-01-18, 04:40 AM
  #90  
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I must admit I’m not convinced by e-bikes, although if it reduces car traffic in cities it’s hard to pick a fault with them, and most councils in France do give you a rebate as incentive, particularly for older people, for just that reason. Despite my previous comments, they certainly have a positive impact on air quality in urban areas.
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Old 12-01-18, 05:47 AM
  #91  
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Originally Posted by avole View Post
I must admit I’m not convinced by e-bikes, although if it reduces car traffic in cities it’s hard to pick a fault with them, and most councils in France do give you a rebate as incentive, particularly for older people, for just that reason. Despite my previous comments, they certainly have a positive impact on air quality in urban areas.
Still needs power plants to generate the electrify. So depends on how the local electricity is generated. It may not be as great as you think.
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Old 12-01-18, 05:50 AM
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Power plants are nasty, but probably less pollution per kwh than IC autos.
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Old 12-01-18, 05:53 AM
  #93  
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Originally Posted by Kapusta View Post
I’ve got nothing against eBikes (except on non-motorized trails). I am building two for me and my wife. But we are not deluding ourselves that these are bicycles, or that we are “cycling” when we ride them. They are electric mopeds. And I am fine with that. And as far as I can tell, GP is OK with people riding mopeds, he just wants them (and the industry) to be honest about what they are doing.
I think you might have a different perspective once you’ve ridden one. I have a Copenhagen wheel which I sometimes attach to my cyclocross bike for commuting. When I ride it I put out the same power as my regular bike I just get to work 10 min faster. It feels exactly like riding a bicycle with a tailwind and it looks exactly like a bicycle. Looks like a duck, quacks like a duck...
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Old 12-01-18, 07:07 AM
  #94  
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I was in Traverse City, MI over the summer with my wife, and we rented a pair of Raleigh Detours for the day to try out ebikes. I'm sure different ebikes must have different pedal assist profiles or whatever, but this bike had 4 or 5 pedal assist settings and that was basically how fast you could go. On the highest setting I could go about 18 mph if I just lightly turned the pedals with very little effort or around 19 if I pedaled as hard as I could. Same thing just a little slower at all the other settings. Seemed a lot more like a moped than a bike to me, except way crappier than both. If I wanted to commute to work on a moped, I would buy a vespa, and commuting is really the only relevant use-case I can think of for a pedal assist ebike for able-bodied people. Originally we thought that maybe we could get my wife an ebike so she could go cycling with me, but at least with this ebike, she wouldn't be able to keep up and would run out of power in about 25 miles, so pretty useless for that application. More speed, bigger battery, etc. gets us even more into moped-land which isn't really the point.
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Old 12-01-18, 07:08 AM
  #95  
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Originally Posted by radroad View Post
Even when I disagree with Grant Petersen (and I tend to agree with him more often than not), his opinions are typically interesting, well thought through, and often amusing. His opinions are often well-informed also, which is why his recent anti e-bike rant is so disappointing and confusing. He clearly has not ridden an e-bike and seems bent on never doing so. Moreover, he's clearly strongly inclined to discourage others from riding e-bikes, or at least on changing existing legislation so that e-bikes would be re-classified as mopeds or motorcycles.


The blog piece is littered with endless contradictions, half truths, obscurantism and uninformed opinion passed off as fact. Be forewarned; this is Grant Petersen at near rock bottom. I'm going to give him a pass on this one. I tend to believe he was drunk or otherwise compromised when he wrote this piece. Sad that he didn't actually edit, re-write or simply delete this awful piece once he came to:


https://www.rivbike.com/blogs/peekin...-knothole/reno


TL, DR:


1. GP says he attended Interbike in order to open new accounts, but money isn't really important to him.


2. The declining popularity of Interbike means the industry is in peril ("oh no, support your local ripoff I mean bike shop!")


3. The Big Three (T, S, G) are baddies for not attending Interbike, but no big deal, Interbike was awesome anyway, except when it wasn't

snip






Seriously? You're suggesting that someone you don't know was drunk because they wrote a blog post you disagree with?

If you have an actual disagreement with something from the blog post, why don't you just make your point, rather than attack someone's character?

You're 3d point, for example, inaccurately depicts what GP wrote about the big 3 and them not attending inter-bike.

Let me quote what GP wrote about the big 3 not attending inter-bike:

"The big bike industry trade show is called Interbike. It ended Friday, and this year it was about 25 percent as big as it has been in any of the past 35 years. Specialized, Giant, and Trek have their own shows, with captive audiences, and they save money by not renting space at Interbike, and they can give their dealers a more royal treatment. It makes sense."

Last edited by bikemig; 12-01-18 at 07:16 AM.
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Old 12-01-18, 07:14 AM
  #96  
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Originally Posted by kingston View Post
On the highest setting I could go about 18 mph if I just lightly turned the pedals with very little effort oraround 19if I pedaled as hard as I could.Same thing just a little slower at all the other settings.
So I don't need an e-bike like that, I can go faster than that if I pedal as hard as I can.
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Old 12-01-18, 07:18 AM
  #97  
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Originally Posted by gregf83 View Post
I think you might have a different perspective once you’ve ridden one.
I have ridden eBikes many times.

Originally Posted by gregf83 View Post
Looks like a duck, quacks like a duck...
.....and has a battery and motor like a duck?

Last edited by Kapusta; 12-01-18 at 08:08 AM.
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Old 12-01-18, 07:19 AM
  #98  
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Originally Posted by Reynolds View Post
I can go faster than that if I pedal as hard as I can.
Yes me too. The mid-drive motor and the way the pedal assist worked on the bike prevented me from going any faster no matter how hard I pedaled. That was my point.

Originally Posted by Reynolds View Post
So I don't need an e-bike like that,
Nobody does
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Old 12-01-18, 07:28 AM
  #99  
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****
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Old 12-01-18, 08:01 AM
  #100  
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I can understand why people want e-bikes classed as bicycles in terms of where it is permissible to ride them. I have no problem with that. Calling them bicycles in that context makes sense.

Arguing that they're just exactly the same as a bicycle because adding a motor is no different than adding gears seems to me to be a silly conceit.
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